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Anyone else abandoning ship?
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I never said the surface crushes the MacBook. But there are cases when it is a better device. I think it is all what you need. I hear the Surface sells well with students as an all-in-1 note taking device. Something they can use in class and draw pictures on with the pen rather than typing text. While college has been a long time for me, I know my notebooks from my days in STEM are more diagrams then words. And then there is something about being able to just detach the tablet part, and lie down on the couch and binge watch Netflix without having to buy a separate tablet.
And I agree about the towers and a laptop. I am typing this on a system with 2-27 inch monitors, 2 EVO 970 M.2 nVMe SSDs, 32 GB of memory, 8-core 9700K i-7 processor, and an NVIDIA RTX 2080 GPU. Tower was built from scratch for less than $2,500. I dual boot Windows 10 and Ubuntu 18.04. It is blazing and buries my 2018 MacBook Pro at any task. But the MBP is a lot more portable.
Thanks for the feedback. I think the new MBA will be more than powerful enough for my needs. I have some more life in my 2014 MBA, so I will probably buy a new one in a year or so.
Who, I ask, came into this thread that was specifically posted for people dissatisfied with current MacBook keyboard hardware to tell people they're wrong? You did. If you're satisfied with the butterfly keyboard, then great, enjoy it and live your life. God bless. But don't be surprised when someone takes exception.
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I switched to Android a few years ago and I like it much better. I'm using both Mac and non-mac computers and I see no reason to ever pay more to buy a Mac again. I still use iPad but that's only because a crucial piece of software is only available on ios
Stopped with the 2016 MBP release, simply no longer practical nor worth the price Apple is asking. Mostly I need the hardware to help me work faster, not hinder me. Add in increasing reliability concern's, poor design decisions it wasn't a difficult choice.
Q-6
Q-6
Addressing the original question - Yes.
I've wanted something with an AMD processor ever since they introduced their Ryzen series, and Lenovo's ThinkPad A485 is a decent machine for the price, with excellent battery life to boot.
Mobile isn't as important, and my iPhone 5s continues to work fine, although I would prefer something with better file management and transfer options. When I'm looking to replace it, I'll be looking closely at the offerings from Motorola - a Moto E or G will do. Several contacts will be disappointed that I've moved away from iMessage, but that's a tradeoff I'll need to make.
I was a technician with Apple, but decided to leave before the machines become completely unserviceable. One would consider that "abandoning ship" in every sense (but in reality, it's just the right time to explore another field).
I've wanted something with an AMD processor ever since they introduced their Ryzen series, and Lenovo's ThinkPad A485 is a decent machine for the price, with excellent battery life to boot.
Mobile isn't as important, and my iPhone 5s continues to work fine, although I would prefer something with better file management and transfer options. When I'm looking to replace it, I'll be looking closely at the offerings from Motorola - a Moto E or G will do. Several contacts will be disappointed that I've moved away from iMessage, but that's a tradeoff I'll need to make.
I was a technician with Apple, but decided to leave before the machines become completely unserviceable. One would consider that "abandoning ship" in every sense (but in reality, it's just the right time to explore another field).
I’m currently happy with my iOS and macOS setup, but I’m also happy with my recent decision to get a Windows laptop.
That said, after shopping around and doing a lot of research on the mid to higher end Windows options these these past few weeks, I've also come away from the experience with a renewed appreciation for the simplicity and peace of mind a new Apple purchase can provide.
With a MacBook, you know the build will be good, the battery life and display will be excellent, the fans will be quiet for basic tasks, software optimization will be tight, and you know if you have problems with any of the above, support options are there to help you find a solution.
The current $2199 sale price for the base 15” model on Amazon & Best Buy isn’t a bad deal if don’t mind the 256 storage limit. The prices are probably outrageous if you live outside the US, though.
The last MacBook Pro that really appealed to me personally were the 2015 models, one of which I owned and loved.
The new keyboard, no mag safe, the Touch Bar taking away function keys, and Apple’s continued tradition of gluing and soldering everything together, while offering crappy entry level storage options and ridiculously expensive upgrades, turns me off more and more with each passing year. I also find the prospect of upgrading to the new iPad and iPhone with Face ID and no home button less appealing than I ever have, too. *shrugs* We’ll see what the future holds.
I certainly don’t want to see Apple fail. I’m happy we have options and some competition in the market. If anything we need more competition, it's good for our wallets and breeds innovation.
No computer (or company) is perfect, and none of the Windows laptop models I considered were without their shortcomings. Still, I think I found what I wanted with the X1 Extreme. Battery life probably won’t be as good, but I’ll get a beautiful color accurate 4K display, great build quality, a variety of ports, an excellent keyboard with some water resistance (!), and I can replace the battery, add a second SSD, and as much RAM as I’ll ever need.
A Windows laptop is the most sensible addition to my setup, and after 3-4 years of Apple-only it feels good to be breaking out of the bubble a bit.
That said, after shopping around and doing a lot of research on the mid to higher end Windows options these these past few weeks, I've also come away from the experience with a renewed appreciation for the simplicity and peace of mind a new Apple purchase can provide.
With a MacBook, you know the build will be good, the battery life and display will be excellent, the fans will be quiet for basic tasks, software optimization will be tight, and you know if you have problems with any of the above, support options are there to help you find a solution.
The current $2199 sale price for the base 15” model on Amazon & Best Buy isn’t a bad deal if don’t mind the 256 storage limit. The prices are probably outrageous if you live outside the US, though.
The last MacBook Pro that really appealed to me personally were the 2015 models, one of which I owned and loved.
The new keyboard, no mag safe, the Touch Bar taking away function keys, and Apple’s continued tradition of gluing and soldering everything together, while offering crappy entry level storage options and ridiculously expensive upgrades, turns me off more and more with each passing year. I also find the prospect of upgrading to the new iPad and iPhone with Face ID and no home button less appealing than I ever have, too. *shrugs* We’ll see what the future holds.
I certainly don’t want to see Apple fail. I’m happy we have options and some competition in the market. If anything we need more competition, it's good for our wallets and breeds innovation.
No computer (or company) is perfect, and none of the Windows laptop models I considered were without their shortcomings. Still, I think I found what I wanted with the X1 Extreme. Battery life probably won’t be as good, but I’ll get a beautiful color accurate 4K display, great build quality, a variety of ports, an excellent keyboard with some water resistance (!), and I can replace the battery, add a second SSD, and as much RAM as I’ll ever need.
A Windows laptop is the most sensible addition to my setup, and after 3-4 years of Apple-only it feels good to be breaking out of the bubble a bit.
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Of course there is probably a 99% chance that we will see the Surface Book 3 this October. It will be interesting to see what is addressed in that release. TB3? RTX 20 series GPU? I guess we are fixing to find out.
That X1 Extreme sure does look interesting. Up to 64 GB of user upgradable RAM, GTX 1050. 4K screen. Probably has one of those great Thinkpad keyboards also. Same weight as MBP 15" 16GB ram, 512GB NVME M.2, $2500. I understand why you are interested!
But, then there is the P1....
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My next laptop will be a gaming pc laptop. They are getting thinner with every iteration and some of the next gen ones coming out this year look great and have very impressive graphic cards.
I don’t rely on my Mac like I use to, and find I use my iPad more. There has also not been anything Mac related that has got me excited in a long time.
I don’t rely on my Mac like I use to, and find I use my iPad more. There has also not been anything Mac related that has got me excited in a long time.
They seem to be thermally managed better and typically have the best specs
Mmm, though the partial quote you extracted from my post is a bit out of context on its own - Indeed this is why when I was a moderator on an unrelated site we didn't allow partial quotes at all - if you were replying you had to quote the post in its entirety and if you were referencing a certain part bold it - saved us a lot of hassle with the whole 'but I never said that' disputes! To take the quote in full:
So, yeah - who wouldn't want a thinner, smaller, lighter machine given no deal-breaker compromises made? (e.g. the retina generation machines over the unibody) - but I fully acknowledge they have made far too many compromises in shaving the chassis down with these TB models (Flexgate and the Keyboards to name but a demonstrable couple!)
I will omit the first part of the post because it's not relevant.
Playing with the new 13" for a few days, I don't think that the 13" is all that compromised. The keyboard design is questionable; although i do enjoy typing on it a lot. The only issues I have is durability/reliability.
as far as "flex gate" goes, I had the screen on the oh-so touted retina 2012 replaced 2 times in its lifetime. And both times it was free - which is why i stayed with apple in the first place, good support.
first time - two pixels exploded. Anyone remembers exploding pixels? Doubt it.
second time - anti-reflective stains
I bet nobody remembers the god-awful retina rendering issues and performance issues relating to it either. (screen artefacts, frozen elements on screen, glitching...)
rose-colored glasses... term exists for a reason
so you bought a next MBP with still not solved potential problems like KBD, T2, staignate, if I had similar like you experience on the past I wouldn't buy any Apple products
I'm not abandoning ship right now, but there has been a little more mind wandering among my companions than there has ever been in the past.
People will not give up on the belief that the 2018 iPhone radios are not as good as they should be, and the odd adoption record for the eSIM has been hard to swallow. Some providers say *only* postpaid for eSIM, and one big provider says *only* prepaid for eSIM, and people just don't like the mixup about it, and the odd problems that seem to come along with it (like both cellular plans losing all connectivity, sporadically, suddenly, for a few seconds).
Right now, the "ecosystem" is saving Apple, in my group of people. We can see the modem versions changing as iOS 12.1.1 progresses through the betas, so we know Apple is working hard on the issues.
So, we're here for now.
The rumors of the 855 chipset's performance might give Apple a contest like they've never seen before when it comes to smartphones. But...changing platforms might still be out of the question for a lot of us.
There's such a very long history of good service with Apple.
[doublepost=1547558325][/doublepost]28% of my workforce is now on Android devices. I just checked. That's the highest it has ever been, and last year we were almost exclusively iPhones.
People will not give up on the belief that the 2018 iPhone radios are not as good as they should be, and the odd adoption record for the eSIM has been hard to swallow. Some providers say *only* postpaid for eSIM, and one big provider says *only* prepaid for eSIM, and people just don't like the mixup about it, and the odd problems that seem to come along with it (like both cellular plans losing all connectivity, sporadically, suddenly, for a few seconds).
Right now, the "ecosystem" is saving Apple, in my group of people. We can see the modem versions changing as iOS 12.1.1 progresses through the betas, so we know Apple is working hard on the issues.
So, we're here for now.
The rumors of the 855 chipset's performance might give Apple a contest like they've never seen before when it comes to smartphones. But...changing platforms might still be out of the question for a lot of us.
There's such a very long history of good service with Apple.
[doublepost=1547558325][/doublepost]28% of my workforce is now on Android devices. I just checked. That's the highest it has ever been, and last year we were almost exclusively iPhones.
But did exploding pixels blight the retina machines through three generations? I’m willing to bet if it did it was down to an incidental manufacturing defect and affected very, very few people, not a design flaw which has already affected up to an estimated 5-8% of units. I also doubt very many people went through 2+ units displaying the same flaw.
Staingate is ongoing, you’re just as likely to encounter it on a TB machine as a retina one - you’re right to say that at least Apple will put this right, but it likely has persisted so long because it’s impossible to completely rectify without leaving the screen entirely clear of the coating, which would be a cure worse than the affliction. By contrast, the butterfly keyboards could be ditched and at least as many people would applaud it as lament it just in terms of personal preference for typing.
One of these factors in my decision of abandoning the platform vs sticking with apple, is with peace of mind.
I was going to go into a lot of detail regarding this, but instead let me just convey the over arching thought process.
Peace of mind; was I confident that this laptop would hold up beyond the warranty period? I see people posting that AppleCare needs to be a requirement when buying this laptop. To me that was just plain wrong, if the laptop's durability is in question that much, why I am I buying/using it? I had hoped when Apple announced the 2018 model, the keyboard was finally fixed and ensure the failures of the 2016 and 2017 models wouldn't come and bite us, but here we are in early 2019 getting reports of some folks needing a keyboard repair. Are those issues the exception or the rule? I have no idea, but after spending so much money, do I really want to take a chance that the keyboard will fail eventually? That's what I mean about peace of mind.
I finally decided to cut my losses and move one. I know many people are happy with the MBP, and in many ways its a fine computer, but for my needs, usage patterns and wish lists, I decided that a different product will be a better fit. My usage patterns have changed a bit too, and wanting a more powerful GPU has started moving up the list as it were.
With a windows machine, I'll get a better GPU (I don't know where those Vega GPUs line up in all honesty), a better keyboard, replaceable battery, ram, and SSD for less money then what the MBP goes for. The proceeds of the MBP will just about cover the entire cost of the laptop. Basically I'm swapping a MBP for windows PC without losing money. (depending on what I get, the savings will fluctuate).
I was going to go into a lot of detail regarding this, but instead let me just convey the over arching thought process.
Peace of mind; was I confident that this laptop would hold up beyond the warranty period? I see people posting that AppleCare needs to be a requirement when buying this laptop. To me that was just plain wrong, if the laptop's durability is in question that much, why I am I buying/using it? I had hoped when Apple announced the 2018 model, the keyboard was finally fixed and ensure the failures of the 2016 and 2017 models wouldn't come and bite us, but here we are in early 2019 getting reports of some folks needing a keyboard repair. Are those issues the exception or the rule? I have no idea, but after spending so much money, do I really want to take a chance that the keyboard will fail eventually? That's what I mean about peace of mind.
I finally decided to cut my losses and move one. I know many people are happy with the MBP, and in many ways its a fine computer, but for my needs, usage patterns and wish lists, I decided that a different product will be a better fit. My usage patterns have changed a bit too, and wanting a more powerful GPU has started moving up the list as it were.
With a windows machine, I'll get a better GPU (I don't know where those Vega GPUs line up in all honesty), a better keyboard, replaceable battery, ram, and SSD for less money then what the MBP goes for. The proceeds of the MBP will just about cover the entire cost of the laptop. Basically I'm swapping a MBP for windows PC without losing money. (depending on what I get, the savings will fluctuate).
I agree re: peace of mind - I don’t want to be babying a computer or worrying about it failing at some point in the future, I just want to get on and use it.
I believe the Vega chips are compatible to an Nvidia GTX 1050Ti or a little better - so right at the bottom end of what you’d get in a reasonably powerful windows computer (comparable to a Dell XPS 15 for example) - when the GTX 1150/Ti come about I expect they will pull a good chunk ahead once again given what we’ve seen from the higher end RTX 2000 cards. Though that’s still impressive enough given a 35W TDP when the 1050Ti can use up to 70W in certain circumstances!
I'm not willing to change ecosystem. I work with Logic and am very good with it, and while I can manoeuvre in windows alternatives, i don't find them as enjoyable.
And anyway, my next machine was technically a Mini, which doesn't have any of those. (I don't have T2 issues, others don't apply here)
MBP is for portable work and not as critical this time around.
They did at least up to 2014.
The butterflies can't be ditched without a complete redesign of the unit tho.
where did you get the estimate?
I believe it was made in the waiting for the 2019 pro thread if I remember correctly? Or maybe the 2018 version - it was based on Apple return figures I believe.
I understand what you mean by 'peace of mind' and that is a rather large factor when I am planning to purchase a device. However, when I'm considering a computer, going over the feature-to-price ratio in my mind, I also consider the software features. For example, my needs include being able to have features such as iCloud, Continuity, Handoff, AirPlay, etc. seamlessly integrate between my devices. I wish someone would sit down and teach me how to do that between a Windows PC, iPhone and Android tablet.
Years ago it was just the desktop computer or laptop that was important. Well, times have changed and now a cell phone and a tablet are equally as important and it helps people when all of those devices are able to integrate our workflow seamlessly.
No interest in leaving. I tried the Win 10/DELL XPS/Surface for about a year, and never really liked it. Some stuff is better, but in the end it just all felt fragmented.
Admittedly, the DELL XPS(13) had a decent keyboard. Trackpad was okay too. The Surface KB was okay, but over I felt the build quality meh; creaking KB, the trackpad also creaked, and appeared to be somewhat separated from the palm rest. Returned, and it was the same thing, and ended up returning and sticking with the DELL.
In the end, it's what you like and what you need.
Admittedly, the DELL XPS(13) had a decent keyboard. Trackpad was okay too. The Surface KB was okay, but over I felt the build quality meh; creaking KB, the trackpad also creaked, and appeared to be somewhat separated from the palm rest. Returned, and it was the same thing, and ended up returning and sticking with the DELL.
In the end, it's what you like and what you need.
I am by no means letting Apple off the hook here. They seem to have had more issues of late and many of their design decisions are questionable at best.
Having said that, when I look at a lot of the PC manufacturers, I do not see some bastion of reliability. Razer is notorious for poor reliability as is hp. Dell has improved significantly, but they have a pretty poor reputation as well. Lenovo is better, but still a drop from the IBM days. I think all computer manufacturers have reliability and QC struggles, and really I doubt any one is significantly better than another. I will say that I would take Apple's service over any of the others however, aside from maybe Lenovo. We are sitting in an Apple echo chamber. Go to Dell, Razer, hp, or Lenovo centric forums and you are going to see the same things you see here. Just the company and part will be different.
If you dislike the direction Apple is taking their machines, whether it be overall design, usability, price, etc. that is one thing. But to leave because of reliability? I think you are chasing the end of a rainbow there.
EDIT: Also, Apple reliability is not new. I have seen these exact discussions on this forum for nearly the last 13 years! Heat issues, display issues, keyboard problems, case discoloration. None of this is new. What is new is the astronomical prices and design philosophy that really feels like it is going against the type of consumer a MacRumors user represents.
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