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sapporobaby

macrumors 68000
As an AP3 user, I too am extremely frustrated by what I see as Apple's lack of attention to its current use base. LR4 is simply a better product (I downloaded a free copy to trial, exported about 4K masters to trial with) at the moment. I think Apple is going full on towards the consumer space with its upgrades to iPhoto with its pro apps in atrophy mode. I will wait a bit longer and see what shakes loose.
 

jwaugh

macrumors newbie
Feb 6, 2008
1
0
The Noise Ninja plug in for Aperture comes bundled with Noise Ninja for Photoshop and gives you a complete noise filter solution.
A White balance brush would be a great feature, but not enough to change my entire work flow.
Lens correction is a simple round trip edit to CS5, Edit with external editor is as workable solution for now. 10 TB worth of libraries is to much to change at this point.
Apple is still adjusting to a new management strategy, let's hope that customer loyalty fits into the "New Apple" philosophy.
Time will tell....
 
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zoffdino

macrumors member
Apr 27, 2009
44
23
Apple's commitment to professional software

The Noise Ninja plug in for Aperture comes bundled with Noise Ninja for Photoshop and gives you a complete noise filter solution.
A White balance brush would be a great feature, but not enough to change my entire work flow.
Lens correction is a simple round trip edit to CS5, Edit with external editor is as workable solution for now. 10 TB worth of libraries is to much to change at this point.
Apple is still adjusting to a new management strategy, let's hope that customer loyalty fits into the "New Apple" philosophy.
Time will tell....

While what you said is true, it doesn't represent the best that Apple's competition can offer. Using plug-in mean generating those huge TIFF files and lose the non-destructive capability. Aperture 3's raw engine can use some much needed upgrade: it was revolutionary when it came out, comparative with LR 3, but outgunned by LR 4. And then we can all agree that Aperture's performance leaves something to be desired.

What I've seen is Apple is losing touch with the pro market. Some happened before Steve Job's pass away: glossy screens (many pros hate them), ignoring the Mac Pro (low sales but those are Apple's most loyal customers), Final Cut X (total elimination of backward compatibility when first came out), etc. I'm growing more and more skeptical of Apple as a provider of creative tools. I have no problem spending $300 on a piece of software that serves as my bread and butter for 2 years. One wedding would have recovered the cost.

While not leaving the Mac platform any time soon, I'm under serious consideration of switching my toolset from Apple's software. Chasing the money makes great business sense, but disenfranchising your most loyal user group is not.
 

sapporobaby

macrumors 68000
While what you said is true, it doesn't represent the best that Apple's competition can offer. Using plug-in mean generating those huge TIFF files and lose the non-destructive capability. Aperture 3's raw engine can use some much needed upgrade: it was revolutionary when it came out, comparative with LR 3, but outgunned by LR 4. And then we can all agree that Aperture's performance leaves something to be desired.

What I've seen is Apple is losing touch with the pro market. Some happened before Steve Job's pass away: glossy screens (many pros hate them), ignoring the Mac Pro (low sales but those are Apple's most loyal customers), Final Cut X (total elimination of backward compatibility when first came out), etc. I'm growing more and more skeptical of Apple as a provider of creative tools. I have no problem spending $300 on a piece of software that serves as my bread and butter for 2 years. One wedding would have recovered the cost.

While not leaving the Mac platform any time soon, I'm under serious consideration of switching my toolset from Apple's software. Chasing the money makes great business sense, but disenfranchising your most loyal user group is not.

Best post ever.... 100% on the money...
 

e-coli

macrumors 68000
Jul 27, 2002
1,936
1,149
I already switched over to LightRoom. I'm not going to knock or Aperture or be trollish. I liked it, but I felt the editing capability of LR better suited my needs.

I really want to like Aperture 3, but Lightroom gives you so much more latitude. Try adjusting the temperature of a specific range in Aperture. No can do. Independent editing zones / points in Lightroom is amazing. I really hate the UI in Lightroom, but the capabilities go beyond Aperture. Aperture needs multi-masking badly.

Aperture served me very well, but Apple has to innovate in order to catch up now.
 

maflynn

macrumors Haswell
May 3, 2009
73,481
43,406
I don't mind LR's UI, but I will say I like Aperture's UI more. With that said, I've been using LR for a while now and I'm pretty comfortable with it.

I agree with zoffdino's post particularly where he posted
I'm growing more and more skeptical of Apple as a provider of creative tools.

So much so, that also affects my buying decision. I have Aperture 3 sitting on my computer right now, but I have a piece of mind with adobe being there in the long haul for LightRoom over Apple and Aperture.
 

psychonaut

macrumors 6502a
Jul 24, 2008
555
64
Did a search and found part of my question answered but other parts not. This will be my first dip into photo editing software and I have decided to go with Aperture however couple of questions:

1. I understand the price of Aperture 3 has been discounted to $79, is it assumed that when the next version of Aperture is released it will enter at the same price or does Aperture typically price around $149?

2. I am assuming the next version could release as soon as the WWDC so if I purchase Aperture 3 now and the next version is released is pricing discounted to upgrade or is it one price for all?

Just trying to determine if it's best to wait or pull the trigger now. Thanks for any info you guys/gals can provide.
 

Vantage Point

macrumors 65816
Mar 1, 2010
1,169
1
New Jersey
1. I understand the price of Aperture 3 has been discounted to $79, is it assumed that when the next version of Aperture is released it will enter at the same price or does Aperture typically price around $149?

More likely each version will be $79 and no discount for upgraded versions. LR used to be $299 and cost $99 for an upgrade. $79 for each version seems very reasonable.

2. I am assuming the next version could release as soon as the WWDC so if I purchase Aperture 3 now and the next version is released is pricing discounted to upgrade or is it one price for all?

If a new release comes out within a certain time frame, perhaps 30 days or so from purchase, they will likely let you upgrade - I would call Apple and check their software policy. As for when it will be released, only Apple knows. It would be nice if they pre-announced something now that LR4 is a finished product so their users can decide - especially professionals that need the best tools. The problem is that apple just doesn't care, or at least they make no effort to let their users think otherwise. It has been over 2 years since A3 was released so A4 is overdue.

I have A3 but I suspect that I may change to LR4 just so I never have to worry about things like this. I do most of my work in Photoshop anyway and everyone is confident that Adobe will continue with their product at predicable upgrade periods and setting the standard. Apple's focus is clearly the consumer market and gadgets and they offer little if any reassurance for profession users. Ask anyone that is considering a Mac Pro - when will it be released? Will they drop the product? This stuff ticks pro's off since we not only do not know what the future holds, we can never be certain if there is a future. (As I type this I am convincing myself to download LR4 sooner vs later)
 
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sapporobaby

macrumors 68000
1. I understand the price of Aperture 3 has been discounted to $79, is it assumed that when the next version of Aperture is released it will enter at the same price or does Aperture typically price around $149?

More likely each version will be $79 and no discount for upgraded versions. LR used to be $299 and cost $99 for an upgrade. $79 for each version seems very reasonable.

2. I am assuming the next version could release as soon as the WWDC so if I purchase Aperture 3 now and the next version is released is pricing discounted to upgrade or is it one price for all?

If a new release comes out within a certain time frame, perhaps 30 days or so from purchase, they will likely let you upgrade - I would call Apple and check their software policy. As for when it will be released, only Apple knows. It would be nice if they pre-announced something now that LR4 is a finished product so their users can decide - especially professionals that need the best tools. The problem is that apple just doesn't care, or at least they make no effort to let their users think otherwise. It has been over 2 years since A3 was released so A4 is overdue.

I have A3 but I suspect that I may change to LR4 just so I never have to worry about things like this. I do most of my work in Photoshop anyway and everyone is confident that Adobe will continue with their product at predicable upgrade periods and setting the standard. Apple's focus is clearly the consumer market and gadgets and they offer little if any reassurance for profession users. Ask anyone that is considering a Mac Pro - when will it be released? Will they drop the product? This stuff ticks pro's off since we not only do not know what the future holds, we can never be certain if there is a future. (As I type this I am convincing myself to download LR4 sooner vs later)

Best post ever.... I have LR 4 downloaded and can purchase it via a Student purchase plan. Apple is clearly not concentrating on the pro market anymore and like you I am doing more and more work in Photoshop. If Aperture does not launch at the WWDC then I will simply move on to LR.
 

msandersen

macrumors regular
Jan 7, 2003
217
31
Sydney, Australia
The lack of feedback is frustrating, as their overall strategy in the hardware space is to keep their competitors guessing and not giving them any forewarning. Unfortunately not even keeping people appraised if something is in the works or approximate timeframe backfires as we can see from forums like this. Given that A4 hasn't materialised as of Lightroom 4's release, given how they like to one-up the competition when they can, I suspect the schedule is tied to some other event or major feature or dependency; for instance, if it requires the next version of OSX for no particular reason, perhaps to take advantage of some new "magical" API (eg new improved GPU acceleration) which makes it lightningly fast; or as has been suggested they have some launch event planned to coincide with something. Though if it was imminent having it the day before Adobe launched LR4 would have been very strategic. WWDC has nothing to do with photographers, and waiting for that in the present circumstances makes no sense.
I've been holding off switching, but I've now downloaded the LR4 demo and will give it a go. I really, really want Lens profile correction. And even if it is in A4, I don't trust Apple atm with timely updates to them. Ah well, as long as they have profiles for my lenses, right?
Something needs to happen soon, and if they pull an "Aperture X" or "IOS-like" stunt, all bets are off. I'm happy to try a new "magical" way of doing things, provided they maintain backwards compatibility, unlike FCP X. We shall see, soon hopefully.
 
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sapporobaby

macrumors 68000
The lack of feedback is frustrating, as their overall strategy in the hardware space is to keep their competitors guessing and not giving them any forewarning. Unfortunately not even keeping people appraised if something is in the works or approximate timeframe backfires as we can see from forums like this. Given that A4 hasn't materialised as of Lightroom 4's release, given how they like to one-up the competition when they can, I suspect the schedule is tied to some other event or major feature or dependency; for instance, if it requires the next version of OSX for no particular reason, perhaps to take advantage of some new "magical" API (eg new improved GPU acceleration) which makes it lightningly fast; or as has been suggested they have some launch event planned to coincide with something. Though if it was imminent having it the day before Adobe launched LR4 would have been very strategic. WWDC has nothing to do with photographers, and waiting for that in the present circumstances makes no sense.
I've been holding off switching, but I've now downloaded the LR4 demo and will give it a go. Something needs to happen soon, and if they pull an "Aperture X" or "IOS-like" stunt, all bets are off. I'm happy to try a new "magical" way of doing things, provided they maintain backwards compatibility, unlike FCP X. We shall see, soon hopefully.

Sorry Vantage Point, but you've been usurped. Msandersen now has the Best Post Ever.... :)
 

maflynn

macrumors Haswell
May 3, 2009
73,481
43,406
What keeps bouncing around in my head is the how Apple has really improved iPhoto for iOS while at the same time ignored Aperture.

Also given how iPhoto overlaps Aperture and Apple's move away from professionals in a number of areas has me thinking that we could see iPhoto replace Aperture. LightRoom seems to have taken hold of the hearts and minds of many professionals and prosumers and you have to wonder what advantage (financially speaking) there is for Apple to continue to maintain two separate photo management apps (iPhoto & Aperture)

Will we see Aperture 4? Perhaps, but if Ap3 is not the last version of Aperture, then AP4 certainly will be (imo). Its small marketshare, feature overlap with iPhoto, the lack of trial software all paint a rather dire picture of Aperture's long term viability
 

nuckinfutz

macrumors 603
Jul 3, 2002
5,539
406
Middle Earth
Guys/Gals

People said the exact same thing between A2 and A3.

You know know by know that Aperture isn't delivered on an annual basis. Aperture is far too complex to even think about merging with iPhoto which is already full featured enough for the average consumer.

I expect A4 this year some time.
 

sapporobaby

macrumors 68000
Guys/Gals

People said the exact same thing between A2 and A3.

You know know by know that Aperture isn't delivered on an annual basis. Aperture is far too complex to even think about merging with iPhoto which is already full featured enough for the average consumer.

I expect A4 this year some time.

No one is expecting Aperture to be released on an annual basis. It's been 2 plus years in case you missed it. Considering who Apple has treated its pro-app users FPX comes to mind and the lack of pro hardware upgrades does not paint a very rosy picture or instill confidence. Many pro Aperture shooters are now turning to Adobe simply because they seem to: a) want to serve pro users and b) make money selling pro apps.
 

nuckinfutz

macrumors 603
Jul 3, 2002
5,539
406
Middle Earth
No one is expecting Aperture to be released on an annual basis. It's been 2 plus years in case you missed it. Considering who Apple has treated its pro-app users FPX comes to mind and the lack of pro hardware upgrades does not paint a very rosy picture or instill confidence. Many pro Aperture shooters are now turning to Adobe simply because they seem to: a) want to serve pro users and b) make money selling pro apps.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aperture_(software)#Aperture_2.0

Aperture 2.0 announced Feb 12, 2008
Aperture 3.0 announced Feb 9, 2010

People "are" expecting annual updates or they likely wouldn't worry about Aperture 4 and create threads about it. 2 year cycles have the norm.

Please let's not get into FCPX ...it's so much better architecturally than Final Cut Pro 7. It's hard to learn a new system but once you "empty your cup" it makes a lot more sense.
 

sapporobaby

macrumors 68000
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aperture_(software)#Aperture_2.0

Aperture 2.0 announced Feb 12, 2008
Aperture 3.0 announced Feb 9, 2010

People "are" expecting annual updates or they likely wouldn't worry about Aperture 4 and create threads about it. 2 year cycles have the norm.

Please let's not get into FCPX ...it's so much better architecturally than Final Cut Pro 7. It's hard to learn a new system but once you "empty your cup" it makes a lot more sense.

You just proved everyone who is disappointed in Apple's point. Aperture is late in regards to the previous two major releases. As I mentioned and you seemed to have ignored, Apple appears to be abandoning the pro hardware market. Does the Mac Pro sound familiar? If FCPX was sooooo great, why did Apple go back and rework it because of the outcry from the pros who depend on it. People create threads because they have something to say. If you don't like it, then move along.
 

LumbermanSVO

macrumors 65816
Mar 15, 2007
1,234
622
Denton, TX
I am one of those who had chosen to abandon Aperture. The wait was too long, there are MUCH better features in LR4 and I ran into an area that Aperture couldn't handle, but LR3 and 4 can.

I took delivery of LR4 on Friday, goodbye Aperture.
 

fitshaced

macrumors 68000
Jul 2, 2011
1,741
3,632
I am one of those who had chosen to abandon Aperture. The wait was too long, there are MUCH better features in LR4 and I ran into an area that Aperture couldn't handle, but LR3 and 4 can.

I took delivery of LR4 on Friday, goodbye Aperture.

I think good noise reduction in a photo editing app is extremely important. Therefore, Lightroom wins over Aperture every time.
 

msandersen

macrumors regular
Jan 7, 2003
217
31
Sydney, Australia
If FCPX was sooooo great, why did Apple go back and rework it because of the outcry from the pros who depend on it. People create threads because they have something to say. If you don't like it, then move along.
I'm not a video editor, but I know that they said certain features were still missing but would be added, and recent updates have indeed added them, and they are said to be very solid implementations of those features. Whether that is enough for the high-end, I don't know, but the uncertainty felt by pro video producers along with the inability to import FCP7 projects have seen people migrate. When you invest so much into a program for your livelihood, you want security and backwards compatibility. And please, be civil, I know there's some frustration here, but it's an open forum and he's entitled to express his opinion; I've heard that for some people that hasn't invested a lot of time into learning and using FCP7, the new version is in fact very good, at least for a segment of the market, the sticking point was the missing features and backwards compatibility. For new users, the latter is irrelevant; the updates likely addresses the former.

An issue here with Aperture could be the way Jobs liked to maintain a small core of programmers of supposedly no more than 100 so he could have an overview of what everyone was doing, since he was a micromanager. That meant devs sometimes had to move between projects, esp as IOS was developed. It is likely the same team working on iPhoto, Aperture, and the IOS version of iPhoto, so just as development on OSX slowed when IOS was developed and refined, development of Aperture is likely slowed as both iPhoto and IOS iPhoto was developed. And if they throw a major rewrite of the guts in there to boot, much like FCP, then it could account for the delay. One can only hope it is indicative of a major overhaul of the engine, Aperture seriously needs better performance and resource-use. For example, I just tried exporting 27,000 photos to a new library; I left it overnight, and it was still at it when I got up. The in-progress library was 7Gb by then, most of it in Thumbnails, the rest in a Database folder. And this is for a fully-references library! It was slowing my Mac to a crawl, so I quit it. Seriously, 6Gb of thumbnails and 1Gb of database, not good. And it wasn't finished. Previously before deleting the Previews and Thumbnails, the main library had been in excess of 30Gb, fully-referenced.
I have a sense that A4 is close, and will likely have an IOS-like overhaul like they are want to do, for better or worse. As long as it isn't just a cosmetic overhaul with no major new features, most importantly lens profiles and noise reduction for me, I will not abandon Aperture just yet, even as I will go experiment with LR4.
 

nuckinfutz

macrumors 603
Jul 3, 2002
5,539
406
Middle Earth
You just proved everyone who is disappointed in Apple's point. Aperture is late in regards to the previous two major releases. As I mentioned and you seemed to have ignored, Apple appears to be abandoning the pro hardware market. Does the Mac Pro sound familiar? If FCPX was sooooo great, why did Apple go back and rework it because of the outcry from the pros who depend on it. People create threads because they have something to say. If you don't like it, then move along.

I'm on of them Aperture 3.x users waiting for 4. I thought it might be useful to point out that there's typically a 2 year cycle between releases. So I"m not really in opposition of threads wondering where it is. I'm excited to see the next step myself.

FCPX- not abandoning the Pro market but really saying "You're not the only ones that have a need and we're going to address a larger market.

Other's are getting the hint as well. Autodesk dropped Smoke from 15K to $3500 and made it more appealing to current NLE users.
 

sapporobaby

macrumors 68000
@msandersen and nuckinfutz,

I agree with everything said. I have no problems at all with the way Apple develops apps. In this case, where people sometimes stake their livelihood on them, Apple needs to be a bit more forthcoming. If they do not intend to support Aperture or the Mac Pro anymore, man up, say so and we can move on, but to have this veil of secrecy surrounding their pro apps which we depend on, it is very annoying.
 

Vantage Point

macrumors 65816
Mar 1, 2010
1,169
1
New Jersey
Sorry Vantage Point, but you've been usurped. Msandersen now has the Best Post Ever.... :)

Sadly, the contest is between Aperture and LR (or Apple vs Adobe) - a no brainer for PC people but an ongoing frustration for apple people. Msandersen wrote, "...if it requires the next version of OSX for no particular reason, perhaps to take advantage of some new 'magical'..." That is probably not correct since that would mean no, or limited backward compatibility which is not practical (or a draconian way to make people update hardware but I doubt this)

Over 2 years ago when LR3 was a free beta Apple tried to be competitive by launching a still very buggy A3. A4 is now a finished product with updates... If it can't perform on a ipad or iphone, it is low priority for apple.

I'll save myself the future aggravation and likely just get LR4. The price is fairer than past and updates at only $79 is even better and are released at predictable intervals. For those that do most or all of their work in Aperture then it is worth the wait. For those that are layers people like myself and do all my post work in PS, I think Adobe can say, 'no worries, we'll be there for you' ;)
 
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