Apple 27" Thunderbolt Displays Shipping to Stores

[repoman27]

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I too would love to get one.

Can the thunderbolt iMac drive two external displays?

Yes. Although the 21.5-inch would need one of the displays to be an Apple Thunderbolt Display because it only has a single Thunderbolt port. The 27-inch can drive any combination of two DisplayPort 1.1a displays and/or ATDs.

I'm not sure about how four displays would work with the 27-inch if at least two of them were ATDs. I believe the TB controller only has two DP inputs, so you might have issues addressing them all.

 

[Neodym]

If you don't mind going ghetto, you can just get some suction cups and pull the glass off of the ATD.

You propose to buy a quite expensive monitor and directly start to disassemble it, only because Apple doesn't get its act together?

There are also several manufactures of high-quality anti-glare films specifically designed for Apple displays. (e.g. http://www.radtech.us/Products/ClearCal-Displays.aspx) It's really not a big deal to apply your own anti-glare coating of choice,

IMO it _is_ a big deal, because it is not that easy to apply a film without embedding dust particles or getting air blisters under the coating.

I've read of professionals who have peeled the anti-glare coating off of Dell IPS displays because they couldn't stand that either.

Probably a low-quality coating then. Many people assume that anti-glare would be an applied plastic film or the roughened surface screens that Apple uses e.g. on the MBP's. A true high-quality coating would be an optical coating on the glass (which Apple used e.g. on MBA Rev A-C, don't know about current series). That coating must be applied in the factory and then gives the best of both worlds: Massively reduced mirroring, but as crisp and shiny as a glossy display.

I'm pretty sure Jony Ive has spent more hours thinking about the design of these displays and the materials used than anyone else has about any other display on the market. So yes, it is well designed, whether or not you agree with all of his decisions.

I'm not sure whether he could decide this solely on his own. An optical coating would not take away from the design point of view and probably the coated glass would still be as recycleable as a non-coated glass (glass and metal are Apple's favourites because they can be so easily recycled). However an optical coating is not available for free, so cost cutters may have decided to leave it out on the iMacs with their huge screens.

I would be really disappointed if leaving out the optical coating would have been an intentional decision by anyone else than a bean-counter!

 

[yodaxl7]

Come on! Hurry up!!!

I pre-ordered one from MacMall to save $30 + tax (around $100). Can't wait to have a hybrid iMac w/ my MBP!

Curious, how does MacMall afford to sell it less and no tax? Do, they buy in volume from Apple and get a discount?

 

[repoman27]

You propose to buy a quite expensive monitor and directly start to disassemble it, only because Apple doesn't get its act together?


IMO it _is_ a big deal, because it is not that easy to apply a film without embedding dust particles or getting air blisters under the coating.

It would seem to me that about 80% of the people who adamantly post about the glossy vs. matte screen issue are sitting in front of uncalibrated TN panels when they do so. Because 80% of people are sitting in front of uncalibrated TN panels. If you're really a pro, $999 for a decent display that you can amortize over the next 5 years is not a massive investment. You probably spend more than that on Adobe apps annually. You're also used to spending a lot of time in dimly lit rooms if you're doing color work, so glare probably isn't a factor. So for those folks, pulling the glass off is NBD, if it really makes a difference. The same with peeling antiglare coatings off, or applying them. Hell, you could pull the glass off, have it treated, and put it back on again.

In the end though, I think the decisions that Apple made were largely in the name of aesthetics, and then they did the best they could with what the chosen materials would allow. What are the best matte display panels on the market? How much better are they than the panel used in the ATD? And do they have glass in front of them?

 

[kokako]

No Anti Glare required, Perfection

cool i want one! my current 27" LED I got in Nov10 is nice, love it but this is future-proofed....for awhile at least.

the Old 27"ACD Display iSight in my current display is HD just not in the facetime HD way (720p) it's 1280x1024 so 4:3 nice though.

I don't miss anti glare (the new name we gave it after the current better monitors evolved ) what I should have said is I don't miss the old style monitors, we've moved on, no pros use a monitor in a sunny environment, these are very much pro - some people can't let go and are sometimes so right, they're wrong.

The Old monitors you now call Anti Glare are finished.
The New Monitors you don't like shouldn't be used on the beach while editing feature films.

 

[Rapscallion]

I am guessing that the Thunderbolt display won't work through the existing mini display port, right? Basically meaning I can't use one of these on my Mac Pro.

I've been wanting to get a Cinema Display for awhile, but it seems so weird that I can't use the latest and greatest display because my Apple computer can't support it.

I agree, its a shame that you have to buy the latest computers to even use this display. Its hard to upgrade your desktop and buy this display at the same time, it would have been nice to be able to purchase them slowly over time so it didnt hurt the pocket book so much.

 

[satcomer]

So when will this have USB 3? Summer 2012

When Intel starts supporting USB 3.

 

[theluggage]

I really don't like the way the power cord is attached at a 90 degree angle, but the thunderbolt cable is not.

I'm guessing that Apple only make the 90-degree MagSafe connectors now - if you look at them, the body acts as a lever to help you pull them out - and also gives a mechanical advantage if someone trips over the cable. The old in-line ones were rather small to get a grip on and rather encouraged you to pull them out by the cable.

...and if the TB cable was at 90 degrees it would obstruct the Ethernet and FW ports on a Macbook Pro.

 

[jonnysods]

Still waiting for my shipping notification. Come on Apple, you can do it!

 

[theluggage]

I don't miss anti glare (the new name we gave it after the current better monitors evolved )

Ye Gods, kids today!

When I were a lad we used good ol' cathode ray tubes made out of shiny glass and we was grateful for 'em and the matte coatings on the posh ones were most definitely "anti glare" or "anti reflection".

What's changed is that LCDs are perfectly flat so it is possible to arrange them so that they're not actually reflecting a light or window directly into your eyes. In those circumstances, an anti-glare coating would still be scattering light into your eyes and reducing the contrast.

Most old-school CRTs had a curved (spherical or cylindrical section) face so however you positioned them they'd find a way of directly reflecting a light or window.

Personally, reflections in shiny monitors only start to bug me if my eyes are already getting tired - otherwise I just filter them out, whereas light scattered from an anti-glare screen makes everything hard to see.

 

[kevingordan]

Once you start using Apple then you will not like any other product. Apple definitely wins the hears.

 

[peterdevries]

is there going to be a good performance concerning the UI animations when connected to a macbook air?

I have the mini displayport version connected to my MB air, and even working as a dual to my MB Air display it works great.

 

[AidenShaw]

...misleading

When Intel starts supporting USB 3.

Intel supports USB 3.0 on all of the Intel-produced Sandy Bridge LGA1155 ATX motherboards.

Just because USB 3.0 integration didn't make the engineering schedule for the Sandy Bridge chipsets doesn't mean that Intel doesn't support USB 3.0.

TBolt isn't integrated in the Sandy Bridge chipsets, and won't be integrated in the Ive Bridge chipsets - does that mean that Intel doesn't support TBolt?

 

[peterdevries]

A couple of questions...

1. Can I have my MacBook Air CLOSED while it's connected to the display?

2. If the Thunderbolt display doesn't have audio out on it, is there ANY way to connect speakers to the display... maybe via USB? I already had existing speakers and don't want to toss them or have to connect them to the Air every time.

Thanks.

1. yes, but you won't be able to see the MB Air display anymore Seriously: it works great. I use it too like that.

2. the thunderbolt dirplay has speakers and they are quite good (if they are similar to the mini displayport version, which I use). There are USB ports in the display, so you can also connect external speakers.

 

[doctor-don]

Yes I am serious. I do not need to buy anything for my work (the "work" gives it to me) but I do buy this type of hardware for myself (though I chose to buy NEC 2690WUXI 2 which is a better display albeit a little more expensive). If you prefer to buy it from DELL, you can just a wait a week or two and you'll get the same price as on Amazon because Dell has sales on their monitors on a regular bases. And speaking of buying anything computer for work, are you suggesting that Apple is a a suitable option? Do you haul your stuff to genius bar yourself or you have the assistants do it for you? I prefer same day on site service.

The PA271W 27-inch Widescreen LCD Monitor from NEC, ideal for graphics and photography applications makes your color-critical projects simple. Offering 1440p resolution - and only $1,274 at the lowest ...

Or the Eizo ColorEdge CG275W 27 as low as $3,355.

 

[toddybody]

As long as you don't mind its poor contrast ratio and poor backlight uniformity, it sounds like a good monitor.

I would personally like to have the ACD most, but pricing the way it is...I'd be more likely to purchase the Samsung or Dell.

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

Yes, it is absolutely terrible that the revisions to the USB standard are compatible with each other.

What a super lame excuse for shipping a sub-standard product that is already over 3 years out of date the day it ships in that regard.

The fact is they will be going to USB3 and given this is already converting the signal to USB2, there is no reason to ship it with out of date technology. This was the perfect time for them to demonstrate that they can do USB3 THROUGH Thunderbolt. But as typical Apple does, they make a product purposely crappy so they can sell you the updated model with USB3 in it next year. I guarantee you quite a number of people that buy this one will then sell it and buy the new monitor just to get the newer feature and Apple knows this. They base their entire line on doing crap like that.

Products will work completely fine without the user ever noticing that an issue exists.

So you're saying the average user is too dumb to notice or what?

In other words, if you can't tell the difference between a current USB 3 compatible drive like the WD 3TB (I already own two of these) running 30MB/sec under USB2 and 135MB/sec under USB3, there's something wrong with you. It's over 4x faster with a USB3 connection. And I have YET to see a single normal external hard drive (that isn't a part of some massive expensive NAS type setup) that works with Thunderbolt, so yes it IS an issue right now (whereas that WD 3TB USB3 drive can be had for $110).

Those that want higher performance connectivity will have to rely on TBolt. That is a tragedy.

Is certainly IS a tragedy. There's NOTHING available for it at the consumer price/performance level. So unless you want to spend several thousand dollars for a pro-level NAS setup, it's not exactly terribly useful so far.

And then there's the glossy thing. I won't buy a glossy monitor period. Unlike some people, it seems, I actually have windows in my house and don't particularly like to look at reflection 'overlays' on my monitors or have to rearrange my room to avoid reflections when a simple professional matte screen avoids that entirely. All my 5 monitors are matte displays as is my MBP from 2008.

 

[johnnyturbouk]

(1)

What I heard is that Dell applied a bit too much anti-glare, so small fonts have that sparkling effect. There's still the NEC 27" that comes with a display calibrator (PA271W-BK-SV), however it costs $1500+, and I believe OS X does not have a true 10-bit video driver for it. Without a 10-bit driver it's not worth the extra money.

interesting, it is available for £762.52 ($1200) from here

(2)
Shame on apple for no USB3 - i hope they will finally adopt this, once they do i am cop pin this monitor

(3)
I actually really like the glossy screens, i hate the faded look matte gives me - then again, i live in the city (london) and i really do not get enough sunlight to warrant anti-glare!

 

[calvol]

I need a 27" monitor for work as a financial analyst, using mostly Excel.

Would the ACD glossy screen or the Dell matte finish be better for rendering spreadsheets and text in a normal office lighting environment? - Thx

 

[godrifle]

Yahbut...

...does it line up correctly with iMac 27"? Because the last model didn't, which is just stupid.

 

[thefu]

Sorry for what might be a stupid question but hey, I am a PC guy possibly looking to cross the chasm...

Does this mean if I buy a 15" macbook pro I could connect two of these to it and have three displays (2x27" + my notebook screen)?

I think anti-glare would be a must for me too though...

 

[repoman27]

What a super lame excuse for shipping a sub-standard product that is already over 3 years out of date the day it ships in that regard.

The fact is they will be going to USB3 and given this is already converting the signal to USB2, there is no reason to ship it with out of date technology. This was the perfect time for them to demonstrate that they can do USB3 THROUGH Thunderbolt. But as typical Apple does, they make a product purposely crappy so they can sell you the updated model with USB3 in it next year. I guarantee you quite a number of people that buy this one will then sell it and buy the new monitor just to get the newer feature and Apple knows this. They base their entire line on doing crap like that.

I'm gonna keep flogging this until someone gets it. Thunderbolt provides 10 Gbps per channel. The ATD with only the connections it does provide can use 8.4 Gbps. The video signal alone requires at least 5.8 Gbps. A single USB 3.0 host controller requires a 5 Gbps back end in order to not bottleneck even a single port. There is not enough bandwidth on a single first gen Thunderbolt channel for this display to provide a proper USB 3.0 implementation. That goes even more so for those suggesting a slot for a dGPU. PCIe connections for GPUs usually clock in at 32 or 64 Gbps. 10 Gbps is a lot, but not enough for everything.

I'm sure someone will produce a Thunderbolt to 4 port USB 3.0 adapter, which could be plugged into the ADT and would run at full speed because it would utilize the second TB channel. This will appease all those people out there longing to leave a high speed mass storage device connected to their display as opposed to, say, a router.

Is certainly IS a tragedy. There's NOTHING available for it at the consumer price/performance level. So unless you want to spend several thousand dollars for a pro-level NAS setup, it's not exactly terribly useful so far.

Yes, it's a tragedy that after only 8 months since the release of a new technology there aren't cheap mass produced accessories utilizing it. Thunderbolt will always be more expensive to implement than USB, and right now, Intel has to keep yields of Thunderbolt controllers high enough to provide one for every Mac that ships. That means they have to ship 16-20 million of these chips in their first year of production just to not slow the sales of Macs. I'm guessing that third party accessory developers have had a little trouble getting their hands on significant volumes of TB controllers this early in the game, and so you will definitely pay a premium for the first non-Apple TB devices that hit the market.

And then there's the glossy thing. I won't buy a glossy monitor period. Unlike some people, it seems, I actually have windows in my house and don't particularly like to look at reflection 'overlays' on my monitors or have to rearrange my room to avoid reflections when a simple professional matte screen avoids that entirely. All my 5 monitors are matte displays as is my MBP from 2008.

I avoid Windows whenever possible ;-). And how many of those monitors are IPS panels? Do you calibrate? And do any of them have glass in front of them?

 

[gnasher729]

As for USB 3.0 being left out, some back of the envelope calculations show that the ATD with just the connections it does provide could utilize 84% of the 10 Gbps available on one Thunderbolt channel. The video signal alone requires at least 5.8 Gbps, so there wouldn't be much room to breathe if you added USB 3.0 to that pipe as well. A single USB 3.0 host controller is able to pump the better part of 5 Gbps by itself.

It's not entirely an argument against USB 3.0 via Thunderbolt. While USB 3.0 may be able to deliver 5 Gbps, a hard drive attached to it can't. And the video signal goes in one direction only, while Thunderbolt has 10 Gbps in each direction, so reading from USB 3.0 would be at full speed, while writing might not be. You could probably attach two hard drives via USB 3.0 and they would be substantially faster than connected through USB 2.0.

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

I'm gonna keep flogging this until someone gets it. Thunderbolt provides 10 Gbps per channel. The ATD with only the connections it does provide can use 8.4 Gbps. The video signal alone requires at least 5.8 Gbps. A single USB 3.0 host controller requires a 5 Gbps back end in order to not bottleneck even a single port.

And purposely bottlenecking to 480Mbps is a better solution than a partial USB 3.0? I don't think so. And it's Apple's fault for combining MDP with Thunderbolt.

Yes, it's a tragedy that after only 8 months since the release of a new technology there aren't cheap mass produced accessories utilizing it.

My point is they could have had USB3 for YEARS now and there's plenty of cheap hard drives for it already. I own two and that's because I needed 3TB, not because I specifically was looking for USB3 devices.

I avoid Windows whenever possible ;-). And how many of those monitors are IPS panels? Do you calibrate? And do any of them have glass in front of them?

Only two of the five are for Windows. I have one PC and use it mostly for gaming (2nd monitor on the PC is for my driving controller rig) and video compression. 3 of the 5 are for Macs. None use glass. They're all calibrated. NO reflection problems. I don't believe any are IPS (not needed here for consumer use).

 

[ethana]

A couple of questions....

If I'm connecting my MacBook Air (leaving it closed) to my Thunderbolt display, can I attached an additional monitor to the display, so I have a dual display?

And what if I leave my MacBook Air open? Would that count as a third display? So triple monitor?

Anyone know?