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Who/m are anyone to say "they" get their due? In a free capitalist world. We get to make as much as we can as long as we break no rules doing it.
Well they have their subscription. So they are definitely getting paid and not taken advanced off. They can always increase it they want. Or do an epic and take 0% bellow 1 million revenue a year for all developers.
Will it sell enough to make up the (potential) loss from the AppStore as it is today? Phones certainly make a good deal of profit for Apple. But, the store is well. Better. Not just for Apple. But for folks like me (the customer). I'm safer purchasing from Apple on an Apple device. And if anyone, anyone doesn't believe it, like it, want it, or questions it in any way. They all have the ability to purchase another manufactures device.
Considering that’s where they get most of their money yes it would if epic is the one bearing the cost of hosting and reviewing the apps that works great on Apple devices.
And in all seriousness, it's not for EPIC to sell more iPhones. That's Apple's job. And they do a very good job of it. Epic should stay in its lane. And since removing Fortnite did not disrupt Apple's sales in any meaningful way. Clearly they don't sell iPhones as well as Apple does. If EPIC doesn't like the rules as they have been. They are fully in their right to sell elsewhere, on platforms that more conform to their wishes. OR, they could invest in developing a mobile handheld device. With companies like Asus (ROG), or Lenovo, or anyone that can build a handheld computer. Develop a mobile gaming platform that can also be a phone. Run it on a Linux of our choice and GFO.

It's that simple.
Apple isn’t the one selling their products well. They are doing it collaboration with the developers. Remove the developers and the store and it will die. Developers are those who takes the potential and makes it worthwhile for users.

Epic is a software company, why do you expect them to make smartphones?

And why am as a customer punished by Apple so I can’t discover potentially valuable applications and services developers might because Apple don’t like it?
 
I want the choice to be able to load whatever i want in my devices.

Either stop your hypocrisy (its for your safety, not for our profits) censorship or allow proper sideloading.

Again, I dont understand apple's customers that insist in having LESS options, which conveniently works in favor of Apples coffers and worse, they insist in taking that option away from the ones that do want that option.

If I paid over 1 thousand dollar for a device, I should be able to do with it whatever I like, not what Tim Apple and Jobs ghoul spirit decides.

Edit thanks for confirming my point.
As I posted in another thread. You can do whatever you want with your hardware. The software is your issue, so delete it and put your own OS on your hardware.
 
I want the choice to be able to load whatever i want in my devices.

Either stop your hypocrisy (its for your safety, not for our profits) censorship or allow proper sideloading.

Again, I dont understand apple's customers that insist in having LESS options, which conveniently works in favor of Apples coffers and worse, they insist in taking that option away from the ones that do want that option.

If I paid over 1 thousand dollar for a device, I should be able to do with it whatever I like, not what Tim Apple and Jobs ghoul spirit decides.

Edit thanks for confirming my point.
We have plenty of options. It does not mean Apple is wrong with what Epic is doing. Epic are scum and just want to monetize kids anyway.
 
So first the capitalists had the audacity to call installing software you want on a computer you own «sideloading»

And now, the nerve to label publishing software built with a publicly available SDK as a «free ride»?

We don't hate them enough.
Ever been to a communist country? Go there and see how innovation works or doesn’t and report back, because I can tell you if you have a brilliant idea/invention, you’ll get zero for it and the state will take it regardless. You only need to look back in time to see where innovation and advancement has grown and thrived to see that it’s not under communism. Where is the Chinese or soviet Russia’s version of Steve Jobs? Wouldn’t know, they could never prosper.

I don’t condone unbridled business practices, as all good societies have reasonable mechanisms for regulation of businesses, but to go to the other extreme would kill innovation on its feet. Be careful what you wish for.

If people are so outraged about Apple’s business practices, I don’t understand why they buy any of their products. I guess people just love to complain about things which they can do something about by just leaving the platforms they hate. Too simple?
 
Apple wanting a free ride off its customers is what's going on here.

Pay for the hardware. Pay for your services subscriptions. Pay a percentage of everything you spend on apps. All to Apple.

The rest at least is justifiable, because Apple is genuinely offering a service for money. But apps are not that. And make no mistake, it is your money Apple is taking here in the end, not Epic's.

Why should a free app get a completely free ride, less annual developer fees, while, let's say, a AAA quality mobile game going for $60 would owe Apple 15~30% of all sales?

That's as much as $18 from every person paying for the app, straight into Apple's pocket, so what you're really getting after the Apple tax is barely more than $40 worth of actual app.

Simply publishing an app for a computing platform — what the iPhone and iPad purport to be — had never come with fees attached before companies like Apple started locking down hardware you've already paid for, preventing you from running the software you want without paying even more fees.
Why buy Apple products if you are so angered by their practices?
 
Well they have their subscription. So they are definitely getting paid and not taken advanced off. They can always increase it they want. Or do an epic and take 0% bellow 1 million revenue a year for all developers.
They have other means to the same ends. Ad revenue so games/apps are totally free no matter how many get downloaded. Free apps exist because there are also paid apps that pay the 30% commission. This is how the system gets to work. If you want to sell an application (from the start), and you're not sure if you're going to make it or not. That is part of the risk of starting a business no?
Considering that’s where they get most of their money yes it would if epic is the one bearing the cost of hosting and reviewing the apps that works great on Apple devices.
Whom would you say has my best interest in mind. Apple on Apple's devices, or EPIC on Apple's devices?
Apple isn’t the one selling their products well. They are doing it collaboration with the developers.
Not originally, and the phone sold. Maybe it wouldn't have lasted, we can make that assumption based on where we are today. And when Apple started the store, the rules were laid out in plain english (and other languages I'm sure). 70/30 split. Developers were happy. Customers were happy. The collaboration that came later, made developers billions of dollars, and they packed the conference halls every single WWDC. Until....
Remove the developers and the store and it will die. Developers are those who takes the potential and makes it worthwhile for users.
What risk? $99 to sell something world wide, instantly? Try starting a business with rent costing you $99 a year. A Mac mini, any keyboard and mouse that will work with it. What's that let's say $1000 once? Risk?
Epic is a software company, why do you expect them to make smartphones?
So they can come up with their own business and stop mooching off Apple's.
And why am as a customer punished by Apple so I can’t discover potentially valuable applications and services developers might because Apple don’t like it?
Because you can pick another brand of phone. You're not forced to buy an iPhone. Like them love them or not. You have the choice to purchase any other brand you like. Some of which let you openly do with it as you wish.
 
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Well they have their subscription. So they are definitely getting paid and not taken advanced off. They can always increase it they want. Or do an epic and take 0% bellow 1 million revenue a year for all developers.

Considering that’s where they get most of their money yes it would if epic is the one bearing the cost of hosting and reviewing the apps that works great on Apple devices.

Apple isn’t the one selling their products well. They are doing it collaboration with the developers. Remove the developers and the store and it will die. Developers are those who takes the potential and makes it worthwhile for users.

Epic is a software company, why do you expect them to make smartphones?

And why am as a customer punished by Apple so I can’t discover potentially valuable applications and services developers might because Apple don’t like it?
If you’re so “punished” by Apple, why even buy a single product they make?
 
that has nothing at all to do with app distribution. does Epic give their games away for free?
YES epic gives their games away for free as well as their game developer tools.
Stores charge more than 30%. This is a deal. And it's a price that never went up. Which gave every developer access to billions of devices, worldwide. Instantly. There is a cost to doing this yourself, Apple was simply first to implement it and make it super easy to do so. Developers made billions. Apple never asked for more. The developers (EPIC in particular) "IS" asking for more. They want a free ride.
And that deal is terrible to perpetually take a cut of everything and not allow competition to offer better services. Epic is currently taking 0%, and iOS developers can’t get that benefit
They paid for the developer account(s) and paid 30% of their sales. Pretty little risk on their part if you ask many people.
A lot of risk spending billions developing games that might not makes profit while still giving Apple 30% of your revenue .
There are lots of free apps/games on the AppStore. No matter how many get downloaded.
Oh great free apps… they can’t profit from it as they pay Apple 100€ a year. If you earn 1 million in the AppStore you pay Apple 30%. If you earn that on the Epicstore you keep 100% of that every year.

Keep all the in app purchases etc.
 
I want the choice to be able to load whatever i want in my devices.

Either stop your hypocrisy (its for your safety, not for our profits) censorship or allow proper sideloading.

Again, I dont understand apple's customers that insist in having LESS options, which conveniently works in favor of Apples coffers and worse, they insist in taking that option away from the ones that do want that option.

If I paid over 1 thousand dollar for a device, I should be able to do with it whatever I like, not what Tim Apple and Jobs ghoul spirit decides.

Edit thanks for confirming my point.

You have the choice to buy a device that allows you to load whatever you want: Android
 
As I posted in another thread. You can do whatever you want with your hardware. The software is your issue, so delete it and put your own OS on your hardware.
A strange suggestion when Apple uses cryptographic controls which prevent not just loading alternate OS but even rolling back to previous Apple OS versions.

But even when the cryptographic controls can be broken there is still the issue that Apple’s hardware is undocumented and driverless which makes development of alternative OS extremely difficult. It took years, for example, to get even rudimentary graphics support for Linux under Apple Silicon (when booting natively as opposed to running virtualized under MacOS)
 
Apple is 100% correct. Objectively. Apple risked billions in R&D and Epic just wants to take what Apple built and profit.
Yup. These companies don’t care about consumers, they want that sweet 30% commission back in their pocket and using “consumer choice” and people’s emotional attachment to hating a company as the vessel to get there.
 
I want the choice to be able to load whatever i want in my devices.

Either stop your hypocrisy (its for your safety, not for our profits) censorship or allow proper sideloading.

Again, I dont understand apple's customers that insist in having LESS options, which conveniently works in favor of Apples coffers and worse, they insist in taking that option away from the ones that do want that option.

If I paid over 1 thousand dollar for a device, I should be able to do with it whatever I like, not what Tim Apple and Jobs ghoul spirit decides.

Edit thanks for confirming my point.
If you want that flexibility, get an Android phone. I like that the Apple ecosystem is designed the way it is - which is one of the reasons why I use Apple devices.
 
They have other means to the same ends. Ad revenue so games/apps are totally free no matter how many get downloaded. Free apps exist because there are also paid apps that pay the 30% commission. This is how the system gets to work. If you want to sell an application (from the start), and you're not sure if you're going to make it or not. That is part of the risk of starting a business no?
Free games? Adds? I’m speaking of 0% commission for selling it or in app sales and be allowed to keep all the revenue as a developer.
Its competition in the service and store that I as a consumer as well as developer can use on iOS.
Whom would you say has my best interest in mind. Apple on Apple's devices, or EPIC on Apple's devices?
Neither have my best interests in mind. They are out for themselves.

why do you think Apple allows all the predatory games to be sold in their store? Or advertising in the wallet?
Not originally, and the phone sold. Maybe it wouldn't have lasted, we can make that assumption based on where we are today. And when Apple started the store, the rules were laid out in plain english (and other languages I'm sure). 70/30 split. Developers were happy. Customers were happy. The collaboration that came later, made developers billions of dollars, and they packed the conference halls every single WWDC. Until....
the biggest store was cydia and third party store before the AppStore was even launched. Apple opted to let developers provide apps instead dof webapps saved it from becoming a new newton.

Are Developer to be forever gratefully? Developers have been frankly annoyed with Apple and their rules to just make things worse.

Do you think users are happy they can’t signup for Netflix in the app? Do you think Netflix don’t want to have that in the app? They just don’t want to pay 30%. And that’s also why we got most of the terrible freemium apps to try and make more money to escape apples large cut.
What risk? $99 to sell something world wide, instantly? Try starting a business with rent costing you $99 a year. A Mac mini, any keyboard and mouse that will work with it. What's that let's say $1000 once? Risk?
99$? You think it’s free to develop a game? Pay developers, rent and running costs?
What do you think happens if I make 100k the first year but I have 70k in expenses for salaries and 30k goes to Apple? Apples commission is a cost you can’t escape 🤷‍♂️
So they can come up with their own business and stop mooching off Apple's.
They did. They developed their owngames, their own Game Engine and their own store. Now what are they mooching of Apple?
Because you can pick another brand of phone. You're not forced to buy an iPhone. Like them love them or not. You have the choice to purchase any other brand you like. Some of which let you openly do with it as you wish.
Well i already owning my device. And I would rather put pressure on Apple to improve it more go somewhere else that is already worse? Have you seen how hard it is to ”jailbreak” Samsung devices? Most are closed down closer to iOS.

If my steam library worked on Linux I would abandone Windows. If Apple computers could actually use proper GPUs from Nvidia I would still have Mac.
If you’re so “punished” by Apple, why even buy a single product they make?
The ecosystem and all my purchases and hardware is built around Apple since 20010 and is a bit expansive to change. Back then I just jailbroke my devices and purchased mods, and today I just use certificates to continue to do that. And hopefully it will get better so I don’t need to do that.
 
If you want that flexibility, get an Android phone. I like that the Apple ecosystem is designed the way it is - which is one of the reasons why I use Apple devices.
Android option might be going away soon since Google is planning to mandate developer approval for all apps and not just the ones distributed via Google Play Store.
 
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Apple is 100% correct. Objectively. Apple risked billions in R&D and Epic just wants to take what Apple built and profit.
Apple risked billions in R&D and charged us iPhone customers for that. The r&d is the excuse that apple apologists always pull when they justify the insane price tag of the iPhone lineup. Which is fine, but then don’t use that same argument here especially considering apple didn’t even plan for third party apps when developing the first iPhone. If I recall correctly, at first, jobs’ bet was on web apps which were 100% free to develop. So your argument makes no sense in this context.
 
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Epic and tim swiney are the worst in terms of attitude and entitlement, I would not knowingly buy anything from them. On the other hand I would agree that Apple could reduce their fees and be fine with like 15-20%. They did change the things they were asked to and now epic is back with more ridiculous demands that will be thrown out of court. Ok, they could be paid outside the App Store but you still gotta pay Apple for the app approval/validation, hosting in the app store, bandwidth etc. It's like a used car lot where you need to pay to use their space or their services. Tim swiney is just egotistical and it drives potential gamers away, not a good look.

Gaming on "open" platforms like windows 11 still sucks big time btw, so many bugs and issues especially with updates and then you have windows itself which continues to be the FIAT of OSs. Can't say I like their world of sideloading openness, you spend a lot of time fixing things rather than gaming. Often it's due to faulty updates, no one checking their subpar work and weak MSDOS based platforms.
 
Apple is no better when talking about "attitude and entitlement".

They are in a league of their own --- always have been.
They're entitled to create their own platform and their rules yes. They also have a right to be proud, they make the best phones and best computers. Epic just has a narcissistic guy raging for the past 5 years achieving practically nothing... Epic just comes from outside the house and tries to bully them into something that will make a mess for everyone, like windows.
 
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