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I want the choice to buy a locked down ecosystem. If someone doesn’t want that, there are other companies to buy products from. But if the courts blow that up, then there is NO option to buy into that system. These rulings destroy choice and pick winners and losers.

“I want the right to make the wrong choice in phones, then force the company that makes my phone to change to suit my desires.”

Any other product and the answer would be to sell your mistake and buy what you actually wanted.

For some reason, despite iOS having a minority position in the phone OS market, they are being forced to change into a carbon copy of the dominant OS, which is itself a copy of iOS.
 
Funny that Epic evidently has no issues with paying Sony and Nintendo their 30% cut, and Fornite makes even more money on those platforms compared to iOS.

And spare me the "but the PS5 is a console while iOS is a computing platform" argument. Money is money, regardless of where it's taxed.

That’s the stupid argument Epic made in court because they had a hard time justifying their opposition to Apple getting a cut while consoles were OK.

Epic tried to argue specifically that an iPhone is a “general purpose computer” and not an appliance like a console. They lost that argument.

Epic also tried to argue that a smartphone (iPhone) is an “essential” device people need and therefore shouldn’t be closed down while forgetting all the essential things people do with smartphones (phone, email, message and browsing the Internet) are all built-in functions and not something people have to pay money to get.

It’s no wonder Epic lost 9/10 counts in their trial. And again on appeal.
 
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I want the choice to be able to load whatever i want in my devices.

Either stop your hypocrisy (its for your safety, not for our profits) censorship or allow proper sideloading.

Again, I dont understand apple's customers that insist in having LESS options, which conveniently works in favor of Apples coffers and worse, they insist in taking that option away from the ones that do want that option.

If I paid over 1 thousand dollar for a device, I should be able to do with it whatever I like, not what Tim Apple and Jobs ghoul spirit decides.

Edit thanks for confirming my point.

Less options?

I can do more on my iPhone than any Android phone with sideloading can do. Mainly because App quality/selection is superior on iOS.

Oh sure you can come up with some obscure use-cases that nobody actually uses (but people pretend they’re dealbreakers) but that doesn’t change the fact that the iOS (or iPadOS) ecosystem is superior. A side bonus is not using a device from a company whose only purpose for existing is to mine your data and sell ads (about 80% of Google’s revenues).

And if there’s content you want that’s not available (like adult entertainment) you can use Safari, which will let you visit any website and view any content you wish no matter how offensive.
 
Whatever Epic goal was initially and is now, I applaud Epic tearing away the masks on all Apple users, showing them their true colours. Epic has epically showed the world how divided Apple customer base is at least on this side loading issue. For that I applaud Epic for achieving that.

However long this saga will last, I’ll keep watching, with my popcorns.

Funny. All I see are the typical vocal minority of Apple haters pretending they speak for everyone.

Sort of like when they all scream “I’m never buying another iPhone since Apple did…” and Apple goes on to have a record quarter.

One wonders how they can stand being proven wrong year after year after year and yet continue to spout their dual BS as if it’s fact.

Reminder: Apple won 9/10 counts in the Epic trial. Which was upheld on appeal. Not sure of the technical legal term for that but it’s probably called an &@$-whooping.
 
Waiting to see what will happen with this case. Regulations might force Apple to change many things.
 
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They do. This has been obvious from the start. Not satisfied with having their app on the app store without paying Apple a dime. No they were not arguing about the % they need to pay Apple which would have been reasonable. They didn’t want to pay at all. They went even further thinking they should be able to have their own AppStore on the App Store and not pay a dime.
 
It's not a "free ride" when they're paying the developer fees. If Apple wants to use this logic, then apps selling physical goods and services will need to be booted too but they're not doing that.
They don’t want to pay the fees. Not a dime. That is why they bypassed the AppStore and wanted to take 100% of the profit for themselves. They really showed themselves with how they conducted themselves with google. They didn’t want to pay the fees so they decided to have their own AppStore which is allowed on android. They were not satisfied with that though. They brought Fortnite back to the play store and then bypassed google to take 100% of the profits. They are disgusting parasites.
 
They don’t want to pay the fees. Not a dime. That is why they bypassed the AppStore and wanted to take 100% of the profit for themselves. They really showed themselves with how they conducted themselves with google. They didn’t want to pay the fees so they decided to have their own AppStore which is allowed on android. They were not satisfied with that though. They brought Fortnite back to the play store and then bypassed google to take 100% of the profits. They are disgusting parasites.
This is incorrect as the epic ceo has said
8 to 9% is a respectable fee to charge as you can still make money on that & apple as a company doesn’t do anything to promote any games on the App Store as it’s a generic store.
 
Epic wants more than a free ride.

They want 100% complete and unfettered access to iOS devices. For example, Epic argues that warning messages by Apple/Google when someone wants to download an App from the Internet are intimidation & scare tactics.

What’s next, complaining about Windows & Mac warnings about installing unsigned packages?
That is the point as it’s been said consistently that it’s deliberately designed to scare people that don’t know any better to stay away from downloading that
 
If you want that flexibility, get an Android phone. I like that the Apple ecosystem is designed the way it is - which is one of the reasons why I use Apple devices.
That’s not a valid point
Because it makes fundamentally no difference if epic pay apple a commission or not
Apple will still get your money regardless and nobody is forcing you to download an epic app anyway so your argument is a bit redundant
 
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Great Epic should open up the Fortnite universe to allow third party developers (Like Apple) to write compatible games to use Epics worlds without paying Epic anything.
Oh my dear boy
Now it’s my understanding that the epic ceo addressed this point
This way we charge about 9% for transactions on the epic store as that covers the payment fee & the rest is for the running of the store
Now as he said there is nothing wrong with that amount but based on the business model apple use they do nothing in the app store to help games as it’s a generic store that everything is lumped together and based on Apple’s business model it’s profiteering
 
Funny that Epic evidently has no issues with paying Sony and Nintendo their 30% cut, and Fornite makes even more money on those platforms compared to iOS.

And spare me the "but the PS5 is a console while iOS is a computing platform" argument. Money is money, regardless of where it's taxed.
Nailed it, this is nothing but an egotistical attempt by swiney. If someone can find what particular even caused it, did Tim Cook make fun of him or something? It's something personal, he just wants to damage Apple. Their rules were clear from day 1.
 
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Still waiting for someone to sue Sony, Nintendo and Microsoft to force them to allow “side-loading” on their proprietary console hardware….
Esatto. I'll translate their demands as follows: "I want to sell my book in your bookstore, but you don't get anything from the sales." We know who's the bad faith actor here, the one that still goes at it when Apple allowed the payment change. That's why they should not give the guy a mm from now on, he's a bad faith actor, only there to damage a much bigger much more successful corporation.
 
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You think it's that simple? Let's make 1 thing clear Apple's core beliefs are in end to end control for curating the experience, that was the original mission. Maybe your not a creative or have the desire for perfection so it might be hard to envision how important it is to have that control but thats what Apple was founded on. I would do the exact same thing and it has nothing to do with money, ive never cared for it to those degrees. We have examples of companies doing it the other way, shoot.... even Android, it's just about 20 years old and it's been a mess for over 10 years.


People who think Apple isn’t run like a financial company looking our foremost for shareholders need to look at what’s really happened when the person calling the shots calls them based on profits in the short term and not long-term goodwill and longevity of the company.

Apple’s privacy pitch is a scam as they’re just not that caring other than the marketing aspect. They quickly sold out their entire customer base to OpenAI for ChatGPT integration.

When considering Apple software, that’s their technology, but they have stolen directly from developers and first and foremost concern is improving shareholder value so Mr Crook gets his $100m in stock annually.

Think of the Mac. It’s a relatively secure platform and anyone can sell software for it and I can buy and install any software I want on it. Why can’t I do that with the iOS or iPadOS systems? I will tell you why it’s all rooted in many. The problem is consumers must be protected from the evil that is greed at the top. You think Mr Crook considers how you feel or the profits and the whole pitch is security which many people have bought into. But the reality is systems like Pegasus pay far more for Android exploits than Apple ones as it’s easier for them to get into an iPhone than a Samsung phone. That’s a fact most people cannot fathom based on Apple’s excellent job of training users what’s best for the user. What the user has to determine is is it really what’s best for me or what’s best for AAPL shareholders?

Apple has to maintain profits, but regulation needs to protect consumers. And I am not saying Apple doesn’t have to provide APIs and developer resources and lock it all down, but without the apps the iPhone becomes irrelevant. And most developers get the shaft. This is a world where the top 1% manipulate the entire system. And the talk is just talk. What Apple says isn’t true. What Epic says isn’t true. What anyone says isn’t true. The truth is what’s best for the whole not just the top 1%.

Used to be companies cared for all stakeholders like employees, consumers, suppliers, communities, and etc. Under Mr Crook, AAPL cares about shareholders so the executives can all make bank. They over promise on things like AI, they lie, they deceive, they manipulate, but many consumers just believe all Apple says because they love the products. I love Apple products but I cannot stand the greed at the top. I would pay double for an iPhone made without slave labor and I would pay triple for an iPhone I could install whatever I want on it. There’s another way that protects consumers and allows Apple and Epic to all win. The point is it shouldn’t just be AAPL winning.
 
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Just let them sideload. I’m in the EU, I can choose another App Store, but I choose not to like probably the majority of iPhone users (iPhones have well over 50% of the smart phone market in my country). I don’t think anybody I know cares.
Yes, also in the EU, while iPhone and IPad users have access to third party app stores , the vast majority of people choose not to use them.

Having access to third party apps stores doesn’t mean people don’t use Apple’s App Store.

Essentially, people only use third party stores for very specific apps (most commonly emulators) - the same users are not abandoning Apple’s revenue generating App Store.

So, just as on Mac you have buy games from Apple’s AppStore or through Dream, Epic could easily just have their own store, separate from Apple.

At this point, it’s very hard for me to have any symptom for either side or their behaviour in this debate. Ultimately all the re fighting for is which side has the right to screw over and milk the end user.
 
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Nailed it, this is nothing but an egotistical attempt by swiney. If someone can find what particular even caused it, did Tim Cook make fun of him or something? It's something personal, he just wants to damage Apple. Their rules were clear from day 1.
Again the reason why it’s different from consoles is this the PS5 came out in 2020 and has not been updated with the PS6
Where as apple have since 2020 released the iPhone 12 lineup and we are now on the 17 lineup & how many iPads have released in that time so maybe it’s a bit disingenuous to suggest it’s the exact same
 
Meh. They sell the developer subscription. They get their due.

If epic makes good products that runs great on iPhones it will sell more iPhones.

Well they take a 3.5% cut after your make a million if you use their Unreal engine.

And any Epic Games Store payments they pro process, developers will pay a 0% revenue share on their first $1,000,000 in revenue per app per year, and then the regular 88%/12% revenue share when they earn more than that…

So currently it’s 0% a year for every million… kind of a sweet deal.

And Epic has stated on the record that the Epic Games Store is not profitable.
 
Funny that Epic evidently has no issues with paying Sony and Nintendo their 30% cut, and Fornite makes even more money on those platforms compared to iOS.

And spare me the "but the PS5 is a console while iOS is a computing platform" argument. Money is money, regardless of where it's taxed.
That is what drives me crazy about these conversations. It is always "RAWR APPLE is BAD it should be 10%!!!!"

Okay.....who gets to decide that?

Should we also tell NVIDIA they cannot sell $2,000 GPUs? Should we get in to EVERY business and tell them: "You cannot price something higher than X"?

You know it's 30% when you sign up for goodness sake. If you don't like it, don't put an app on iOS.
 
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Windows is bad in that it has a lot of issues caused by people loading software without checks.

Over decades I've spent countless hours reinstalling Windows and fixing issues with other people's computers because they clicked on a link, opened an email or installed something they thought was safe.

I dont get that on Mac.
And not ever on iOS devices.
Agreed. I think things should be more locked down. I had to deal with constant issues with my grand parents Windows system every month. It would be filled with malware. I finally got them a Windows S system which is more locked down and it helped drastically.

We should have a system so open where simply viewing a malformed PDF causes an entire company's business at risk. I had to deal with severely aggressive ransomware and data recovery from that from multiple clients. To one of the biggest YouTube channels also being impacted by this - Linus Tech Tips.

I have to deal with constant elderly people getting their Android phones infected.
I do not have to deal with any iOS infections.
 
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