Apple Addresses MacBook Pro Throttling Controversy After Working With YouTuber Dave Lee

[curtvaughan]

Apple should be offering a corporate job to Dave Lee in that sphere building with a window view for all his expertise in the PC world. He would be an asset for Apple.

They should hire someone like him to do just what he did on youtube: test new high performance hardware in the extreme situations for which it was designed. Obviously, Apple either doesn't have such a person available at this time, or they ignored his/her advice in releasing the product prematurely.
[doublepost=1532471968][/doublepost]

I’m pretty sure people would’ve noticed the unimpressive performance. He’s not the only one using benchmarks and power gadget.

Other people are noticing - just do a search for i9 chip throttling on youtube. The MBP 6 core i9 hasn't been out long enough to be tested thoroughly. That is rapidly changing. You'll also see similar issues have arisen with the XPS 15 with similar spec's. I would imagine that the next step will be to compare heating and throttling issues between the MBP and the Dell - stay tuned.

 

[kingofwale]

Dave Lee is a real jerk for besmirching Apple’s name right after they had just launched a well received refresh after months of complaining about not having Coffee Lake and keyboard problems.

Apple just can’t get a break. Seems like every other person is just out to damage Apple’s rep. With the iMac Pro it was Linus, breaking a new $5000 machine. All YouTube tech vloggers should be put of out of business.
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Frankly they’re much more likely to worry about performance with FCP X then Adobe Premiere. They also name drop Davinci Resolve a heck of a lot more as an alternative. I’m sure everything will be fine. Maybe Adobe can do something on their end to improve performance on the Mac. These numbers weren’t just due to throttling. It simply isn’t optimized good enough for High Sierra. Perhaps that will change with Mojave when they will be forced to use Metal.

this is sarcasm right?? nobody can be this biased toward a company.. not even Steve Jobs with his "you are holding it wrong" comment.

 

[Ifti]

My numbers are higher in cinebench, but my temps are not better. I think I'll stick with using Volta, I don't need to have the fastest laptop, but I do want a cooler running one

Thanks for this. Temps affecting longevity of the system were my main concern.
Tempted to wait for the iMac now.....

 

[IG88]

Sure, but he could’ve contacted Apple first before posting this sort of video. Stuff like this has the potential to ruin sales. Lots of newspapers ran with this without doing their own tests. People who visit these sites daily will find out that the problem is fixed but what about those who don’t? Articles saying everything is fine don’t get many clicks.

Why are you so worried about the richest company in the world losing a few first month sales?

 

[e1me5]

Great! I am glad that this was resolved quickly. Ordering tomorrow the top spec to use for the next 7 years.

 

[mikethemartian]

It (The 2018 MacBook Pro) was only released to the general public 16 (I'm crap at maths and probably mean 12) days ago. How quickly do you think they should have figured out the problem? Truth is, is shouldn't have happened at all, but hey, even the people that work at Apple are only human

Before shipping it?

 

[Appleaker]

I stick by what I said. It doesn’t bode well to shout that your product is faulty until you know why. It was a major cock up, but 12 days? You’re complaining that it look 12 days?

If that's what you say, that's fine. if you actually read my posts, you'd see that I said it didn't really matter, the only reason behind it was so that the reviews coming out at the time weren't so tainted with the throttling issues (they could add that Apple were working on a software fix, since there's no doubt they knew it was a software issue early on). It could also reduce any possible impact on sales, although that's probably negligible anyway.

Again, I never complained about how long this took.
I would appreciate it if you didn't put words in my mouth, there's no need for it.
I explicitly said that in the post you've just quoted, and in my original post I even commented on how quickly the fix was issued.

 

[pika2000]

Not sure why some people are still complaining. Do you guys not want Apple to fix it? Even Steve Jobs said that the people who work at Apple are people, humans, and people can make mistakes. Bugs happen. At least Apple took humility and contacted the YouTuber (who didn’t bother to update us that Apple actually contacted him to figure things out, but went on praising some gaming laptop instead).

This is why Jobs hated bloggers. They never explored things thoroughly or bother for a follow up after saying stuff. Jobs said Apple always took the high road. The peak of course was on the stolen iPhone 4 and antennagate.

 

[Kabeyun]

"Software bug." Doubt it. But let's see if it actually fixes the issue.

It doesn’t take much knowledge to sound skeptical.

 

[KevinN206]

I can’t wait to see posts of regret of people returning their i9s for the Base 15 inch or the 2.6 i7.

Regret for returning a flawed product? Apple waited 12 days to issue a response/fix and you have 14 days to return the MB. It doesn't take a genius to return a $3K+ investment and buy it again later if things are resolved later. Sure you might have to wait but at least you know for certain the problem is resolved.
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I feel bad for all the people that cancelled their orders because they were impatient. I'm excited to try my 15" i9!!

I think you meant prudent. Why chance on a product that's flawed on huge chunk of money that Apple waited 12 days to acknowledge and fix? Remember your return window is 14 days. The people who returned are smart. You can ALWAYS get it down the road again. I do feel bad for people who blindly think that returning a flawed product is considered "impatient". They actually had more patience to wait and see if things are getting resolved before committing $3K plus investment. That's SMART.
[doublepost=1532481950][/doublepost]

The Internet is filled with "tech gurus" that never created anything.

And yet the Guru Apple

where are these folks that said dave lee is just some youtuber again?

They just blamed Dave Lee instead for bashing Apple instead and mocked people who returned the laptop before the return window expires
[doublepost=1532482452][/doublepost]

Sure, but he could’ve contacted Apple first before posting this sort of video. Stuff like this has the potential to ruin sales. Lots of newspapers ran with this without doing their own tests. People who visit these sites daily will find out that the problem is fixed but what about those who don’t? Articles saying everything is fine don’t get many clicks.

Dave released the video.
Apple contacted him 48 hrs later.
Went silent for the next 10 days.
Acknowledged the issue plus fix on the 12th day.

I agree. He should have swept this under the rug and let Apple releases the update at their own leisure so that everyone can be happy.

This was an ACTUAL issue that people were receiving. I would actually hope that these vloggers disclose these problems as soon as possible so that MYSELF can decide if it's warranty the risks. He had no obligation whatsoever especially if he bought his own laptop. It doesn't matter if it's Apple or Microsoft or Google.

 

[CodeJoy]

 

[KevinN206]

I stick by what I said. It doesn’t bode well to shout that your product is faulty until you know why. It was a major cock up, but 12 days? You’re complaining that it look 12 days?

Sure. Why not? It took them 12 days to acknowledge and fix while working silently for 10 days. People have 14 days to return the product so Apple could have easily acknowledged they are aware of the testing and are working with Dave to replicate the issues.

 

[Greenmeenie]

That was addressed pretty quickly. Good on Apple.

Well, considering the maxed out 2018 15” macbook pro costs nearly $7,000 they better have addressed it quickly!

 

[KevinN206]

Not sure why some people are still complaining. Do you guys not want Apple to fix it? Even Steve Jobs said that the people who work at Apple are people, humans, and people can make mistakes. Bugs happen. At least Apple took humility and contacted the YouTuber (who didn’t bother to update us that Apple actually contacted him to figure things out, but went on praising some gaming laptop instead).

This is why Jobs hated bloggers. They never explored things thoroughly or bother for a follow up after saying stuff. Jobs said Apple always took the high road. The peak of course was on the stolen iPhone 4 and antennagate.

Oh the irony. Do you mean Apple didn't test it thoroughly? What if Apple asked him to not disclose anything until the fix is available? Why Apple didn't say anything after contacting Dave 48 hrs after the video? Why is Dave the bad guy for keeping silent for 10 days afterward? Btw he has a new video with the patch about 20 minutes ago.

 

[Lone Deranger]

Good to see Apple taking note and taking action. It will be interesting to see how things shake out over the coming weeks and months.
Still troubling to see so many mistakes coming out of Cupertino in the last couple of years. I had hoped the special task force Apple spoke of in relation to the modular Mac Pro development would be a bigger thing in the company. Any technical 3D artist worth their weight would’ve sniffed this out on day one. How did they miss this?

This is why having a vocal audience casting a critical eye on these products is so important. Companies need to be held accountable if they don’t deliver what they promise. Staying silent (or worse, defending them at all costs) because you love the company is plain ridiculous and will result in complacency and further degradation of quality. Apple don’t care about you. They just want your money. Everything else is just marketing & PR spin.

 

[PickUrPoison]

Good to see Apple taking note and taking action. It will be interesting to see how things shake out over the coming weeks and months.
Still troubling to see so many mistakes coming out of Cupertino in the last couple of years. I had hoped the special task force Apple spoke of in relation to the modular Mac Pro development would be a bigger thing in the company. Any technical 3D artist worth their weight would’ve sniffed this out on day one. How did they miss this?

This is why having a vocal audience casting a critical eye on these products is so important. Companies need to be held accountable if they don’t deliver what they promise. Staying silent (or worse, defending them at all costs) because you love the company is plain ridiculous and will result in complacency and further degradation of quality. Apple don’t care about you. They just want your money. Everything else is just marketing & PR spin.

Nothing wrong with Apple being held accountable. But the knee jerk pitchfork response by the hate machine does get rather tiresome.

 

[Lone Deranger]

Great! I am glad that this was resolved quickly. Ordering tomorrow the top spec to use for the next 7 years.

Considering how hot these skniiy things run (even post patch) I doubt it’ll last 7 years.
[doublepost=1532484569][/doublepost]

Nothing wrong with Apple being held accountable. But the knee jerk pitchfork response by the hate machine does get rather tiresome.

But is it truly hate or rather expressions of frustration and disappointment in a company once admired? Because that’s what it is for me.

Furthermore, the blind encouragement and ceaseless denials by the Apple defence force is no less tiresome.

 

[PickUrPoison]

<snip>
But is it truly hate or rather expressions of frustration and disappointment in a company once admired? Because that’s what it is for me.

Both groups are represented. It’s usually not too difficult to tell them apart.

Furthermore, the blind encouragement and ceaseless denials by the Apple defence force is no less tiresome.

I think the defense force is well-outnumbered by the pitchforkers. The tiresome defenders can probably be handled by 2 or 3 slots on your ignore lists. The pitchforkers... well, there aren’t that many slots available lol.

 

[mr.anthonyramos]

Regret for returning a flawed product? Apple waited 12 days to issue a response/fix and you have 14 days to return the MB. It doesn't take a genius to return a $3K+ investment and buy it again later if things are resolved later. Sure you might have to wait but at least you know for certain the problem is resolved.
[doublepost=1532481497][/doublepost]
I think you meant prudent. Why chance on a product that's flawed on huge chunk of money that Apple waited 12 days to acknowledge and fix? Remember your return window is 14 days. The people who returned are smart. You can ALWAYS get it down the road again. I do feel bad for people who blindly think that returning a flawed product is considered "impatient". They actually had more patience to wait and see if things are getting resolved before committing $3K plus investment. That's SMART.
[doublepost=1532481950][/doublepost]
And yet the Guru Apple

They just blamed Dave Lee instead for bashing Apple instead and mocked people who returned the laptop before the return window expires
[doublepost=1532482452][/doublepost]

Dave released the video.
Apple contacted him 48 hrs later.
Went silent for the next 10 days.
Acknowledged the issue plus fix on the 12th day.

I agree. He should have swept this under the rug and let Apple releases the update at their own leisure so that everyone can be happy.

This was an ACTUAL issue that people were receiving. I would actually hope that these vloggers disclose these problems as soon as possible so that MYSELF can decide if it's warranty the risks. He had no obligation whatsoever especially if he bought his own laptop. It doesn't matter if it's Apple or Microsoft or Google.

Yes 12 days of waiting. You make it sound like when this issue blew up, you saw the people at Apple laze around and sip coffee while watching Netflix. It takes time to do tests, it takes days of evaluations. To be honest, I was both happy and worried at the same time when they released this update so quickly! I would have happily waited an extra day, or even a week, just to make sure they covered all corners and not rush out an update that might not work properly, have other unforeseen issues and what not.

Also, no one was blaming Dave Lee. His test was not entirely thorough but we are thankful for him because this ended up with people going around doing other flurry of tests and evaluations which led to a few people finding out what the actual problem was. I do blame people for overreacting though as shown here on the forums.

 

[KevinN206]

Yes 12 days of waiting. You make it sound like when this issue blew up, you saw the people at Apple laze around and sip coffee while watching Netflix. It takes time to do tests, it takes days of evaluations. To be honest, I was both happy and worried at the same time when they released this update so quickly! I would have happily waited an extra day, or even a week, just to make sure they covered all corners and not rush out an update that might not work properly, have other unforeseen issues and what not.

Also, no one was blaming Dave Lee. His test was not entirely thorough but we are thankful for him because this ended up with people going around doing other flurry of tests and evaluations which led to a few people finding out what the actual problem was. I do blame people for overreacting though as shown here on the forums.

What would it take for Dave to be thorough? He had data that showed the laptop was throttling badly. He put it in the freezer and it performed much better.

Apple then contacted him after 48 hours to understand his testing and setup. Apple was silent for the entire 12 days. Why did Apple not acknowledge that they contacted Dave? It would have been good for Apple to acknowledge that they're investigating the issues observed by vloggers but they waited 12 days of silence.

Is Apple quicker than pretty much all mfg to fix this issue? Totally. Should have they issued a statement within 72 hours? imo totally. btw I did not say Apple was Netflixing while this whole thing escalated. That's your interpretation. I know very well Apple engineers were working overtime to figure out the root cause, but Apple did not take control of the situation until the fix happened 12 days later. I can't fault people spending thousands of dollars for returning the MB even in haste.

Consumers had a decision to make: Return or Keep. It would be an easy decision for me after 10 days of no response from Apple.

 

[Shanghaichica]

Oh the irony. Do you mean Apple didn't test it thoroughly? What if Apple asked him to not disclose anything until the fix is available? Why Apple didn't say anything after contacting Dave 48 hrs after the video? Why is Dave the bad guy for keeping silent for 10 days afterward? Btw he has a new video with the patch about 20 minutes ago.

He could have said Apple are working on a fix. Does he say anything in his latest video about working with Apple?

Apple are only humans. They are very good but they aren’t perfect. Some things are going to slip through QC and testing. This was an overblown issue. It was a software issue which has now been fixed. It’s not like it was a manufacturing defect.

 

[millar876]

I wonder if they’re still using a new thermal interface material (TIM) between the chip and heat sink. The standard one from at least the last few years has been quite poor, probably around 1 or 2 W/Mk with good TIM being around 7W/Mk or excellent being 10-12 Watts per meter kelvin liquid metal is around 73W/Mk but probably not a great idea for laptops in the long term use to its conductivity. Even intel are using cheaper low performing TIM between the die and IHS on their desktop chips and enthusiasts are gaining 10-20deg C drops by de-liding their CPUs and changing the TIM. Having put liquid metal on my Mac mini i7 it hits max boost speed and stays there longer with less fan speed.

 

[Stux]

Fix appears not to be properly active if booted into bootcamp not mac os, so this is still not a 'full' solution.

Well, at least you can use XTU to fix it in Windows. My standard approach with K processors on Windows anyway.

 

[simonmet]

One has to wonder how, considering everyone else was seemingly able to induce severe throttling under sustained load, Apple managed to miss it. In the aftermath of D2D's report it seems everyone confirmed throttling was an issue and there wasn't a single "not an issue for me, I can get non-stop 2.9 GHz base" report posted that I'm aware of.

In this light, Apple PR's claims seem a bit dubious to me. To me, a 2.9 GHz base clock should mean exactly that; the CPU will not drop below 2.9 GHz at full load, except perhaps under conditions of high ambient temperature (> 30℃). What's funny is that even Dave Lee's screenshot demonstrating the fix shows the CPU at 2.8 GHz.

 

[Sovon Halder]

Missing Digital key?

Don't they do these kinds of basic tests BEFORE the product is launched for public use? I'm very curious. I'm sure there are Product Testing Teams at Apple. Did nobody check how this thing is going to perform when under sustained load? Why wait till public reports a severe issue like this?