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Apple Again Bucks Trend With Sales Growth in Shrinking PC Market
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"Apple tax is out of control" BS
I love the "Apple tax is out of control" straw man argument.
Very recently I was given a new MS Windows laptop at work. It is a HP EliteBook 8440p laptop. Keep in mind that I knew nothing about the laptop before it was given to me. I am looking at it and thinking, great I was given another low budget laptop to use at work. From the appearance, it looks like a $500 laptop that was built in the 1990's. After doing some digging, this thing is $1300 the way it is configured (starts at $900; Yes, I know this is the MSRP). Talk about a tax that is out of control.
It has basically a unusable trackpad, too small and because the laptop is so thick uncomfortable after several minutes of use. I ended up hooking up a mouse.
I love all the extra lights on it, one for the hard drive status, two for power status, two for WiFi status, one for the trackpad status, three for the volume. I also love the inovative way that HP decided to lightup the keyboard, a popout light on the screen frame. Maybe the lack of a lighted keyboard would have drained the 4 hours battery too quickly that is included in this $1300 laptop.
When I first opened the lid on the laptop I got a good laugh seeing a "intel CORE i5 vPro" sticker that was placed crooked next to trackpad. What is it with all the lights and stickers on these Windows laptops. Someone can't tell if there laptop is on or if the hard drive is accessible.
Hmm, let me see this or the 13" Macbook Pro or even the 13" MacBook.
I love the "Apple tax is out of control" straw man argument.
Very recently I was given a new MS Windows laptop at work. It is a HP EliteBook 8440p laptop. Keep in mind that I knew nothing about the laptop before it was given to me. I am looking at it and thinking, great I was given another low budget laptop to use at work. From the appearance, it looks like a $500 laptop that was built in the 1990's. After doing some digging, this thing is $1300 the way it is configured (starts at $900; Yes, I know this is the MSRP). Talk about a tax that is out of control.
It has basically a unusable trackpad, too small and because the laptop is so thick uncomfortable after several minutes of use. I ended up hooking up a mouse.
I love all the extra lights on it, one for the hard drive status, two for power status, two for WiFi status, one for the trackpad status, three for the volume. I also love the inovative way that HP decided to lightup the keyboard, a popout light on the screen frame. Maybe the lack of a lighted keyboard would have drained the 4 hours battery too quickly that is included in this $1300 laptop.
When I first opened the lid on the laptop I got a good laugh seeing a "intel CORE i5 vPro" sticker that was placed crooked next to trackpad. What is it with all the lights and stickers on these Windows laptops. Someone can't tell if there laptop is on or if the hard drive is accessible.
Hmm, let me see this or the 13" Macbook Pro or even the 13" MacBook.
I used to think the same way. 2 kids off to college, money is tight but I gave them each their choice of laptops:
1.) kid#1 chose a Dell because she <gasp> liked Vista
2.) kid#2 chose the plain old white macbook
3 years later, guess which one is currently crap? Seriously, Kid#1 comes home one day, opens up her Dell and she's got 3 keys missing one of which is the Enter key - has no clue where they went.
Also, the battery is lasting a full 20 minutes and the DVD drive is kaput. The damn thing creaks and moans more than my arthritic joints.Now, the lowly white macbook looks like it's been used as a door mat (which I polished up for kid #2 in about 5 minutes) but it works flawlessly.
Really... don't rationalize the cost. Kids are tough on these things and you aren't always there to "learn 'em" how to handle them. A well built mac + Applecare is a pretty secure future for their learning experience.
Yeesh dude, now were getting into perceived value of a product? Thats the same logic that perpetuates Apple's inflated mark up. And btw naysayers, I have a 27 iMac, iPad 2, and iPhone 4...no product bias against Apple.
The simple fact is, Apple is selling tons of product and will not change their pricing methodology to be competitive (iOS devices aside). I just scratch my head when all the Apple-ites on MR jump down my throat to defend Apple's pricing *Yes Sir may I have another.
Thanks for the reassurance
BTW: I live in Frederick MD and go to Balt'mo about once a month...obviously youve NEVER been to MD's armpit.
I cant help but 2nd that opinion. Dell computers are horrible...the PWS they use in their desktops are a joke.
That would be totally irrelevant.
Except for Apple, they all build the same old PCs. Because they all build the same product, sales can move from one company to another company very, very quickly, as we can see from the enormous growth followed by a very quick fall of Acer. Apple has 9.3%, so the rest has 90.7%. It would be possible with these numbers to have nine companies selling more than Apple. If Apple doubles their share to 18.6%, you still could have four companies selling more than Apple.
Apple's position in this chart doesn't matter one bit; not even the market share really matters; the thing that matters is how many Macs are sold. If HP takes a few sales away from Toshiba, Apple comes third. But if Acer takes a few sales away from HP instead, Apple comes fifth. What does it matter? (BTW. The IDC report at macobserver shows Apple fourth, with Acer having lost a lot more and coming fifth, not third).
If Apple is selling tons of products, in a market with plenty of competitors, how can they be not competitive? 9.3% of buyers in the USA decided that for their money, a Mac is the best computer they can find.
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Not to mention their frequent rip-off schemes to state and local governments
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/06/08/dell_lebanon_baloney/
That $1199 iMac has lots of other wonderful features including a screen, but if you think it is anywhere close to the performance of a i7-2600 based PC (that go for $750 from HP/Dell) then you are delusional. To get something from Apple with an equivalent processor you are looking at a $2199 iMac or a $2499 Mac Pro. Doesn't matter that in the long term the Mac could be a better value, some people can't justify that huge price difference or paying additional for features they don't need or want or cannot afford to.
Again Macs are a premium product and because of that Apple will hit a ceiling of those who can afford or justify buying their products.
They're not competitively priced. I wouldn't argue that they're not a competitive brand (HW,SW, marketing...appeal factor)...of course they are
I think this is the two ways the market share for Macs is gained:
1. Windows users buy an iDevice, then another iDevice, then another iDevice... Then they buy a Mac.
2. Hardcore Mac users (like myself) have children and because of the heavy Mac influence from the start, they turn out to like and use Macs. Thats what happened with me. I grew up with all Macs and no Windows
1. Windows users buy an iDevice, then another iDevice, then another iDevice... Then they buy a Mac.
2. Hardcore Mac users (like myself) have children and because of the heavy Mac influence from the start, they turn out to like and use Macs. Thats what happened with me. I grew up with all Macs and no Windows
When my child hits college, she can have whatever she wants.I used to think the same way. 2 kids off to college, money is tight but I gave them each their choice of laptops:
1.) kid#1 chose a Dell because she <gasp> liked Vista
2.) kid#2 chose the plain old white macbook
3 years later, guess which one is currently crap? Seriously, Kid#1 comes home one day, opens up her Dell and she's got 3 keys missing one of which is the Enter key - has no clue where they went.
Now, the lowly white macbook looks like it's been used as a door mat (which I polished up for kid #2 in about 5 minutes) but it works flawlessly.
Really... don't rationalize the cost. Kids are tough on these things and you aren't always there to "learn 'em" how to handle them. A well built mac + Applecare is a pretty secure future for their learning experience.
She is 8 years old and in 2nd grade right now. Contrary to what her school thinks, she doesn't "need" a $1k+ laptop to work on what boils down to Word docs and web research.
Right. My point is that Apple's market share is increasing to to increased sales in PC's rather than other companies' failures. As their percentage increases, the number of companies that could possibly simultaneously have greater market share decreases.
As Apple's sales increase and the sum of the competitions' decrease, Apple's market share has to increase. They can take away from each other but if they are all losing sales then Apple has to go up.
I see Apple slowly rising to a respectable 15% market share over the next few years. Again, the top market share will likely be below 30% so 15% is very good. 9% is very good. HP may increase market share for a while with decrease overall sales of other windows PC sellers but that won't last. If they break 30% it will be temporary.
I used to think the same way. 2 kids off to college, money is tight but I gave them each their choice of laptops:
1.) kid#1 chose a Dell because she <gasp> liked Vista
2.) kid#2 chose the plain old white macbook
3 years later, guess which one is currently crap? Seriously, Kid#1 comes home one day, opens up her Dell and she's got 3 keys missing one of which is the Enter key - has no clue where they went.
Now, the lowly white macbook looks like it's been used as a door mat (which I polished up for kid #2 in about 5 minutes) but it works flawlessly.
Really... don't rationalize the cost. Kids are tough on these things and you aren't always there to "learn 'em" how to handle them. A well built mac + Applecare is a pretty secure future for their learning experience.
who cares? dell's are cheap enough that you can buy a 15" model every year and after 3 years still spend less $$$ than a MBP with Apple Care
+1 Windows PC's are over priced pieces of junk.
The only people here to argue against Apple have to be industry plants. How else can anyone be so blind to the quality of Macs versus Windows machines?
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Thinkpads are built incredibly well.
I know what you're saying though, MOST windows laptops are crap.
This... my T410 kills.
My Dell 1525 is what it is... a cheap laptop that has actually held up very well. Surprised me even. I expected a year to a year and a half tops out of it. Short of the track pad issue that Dell promptly replaced, it still looks brand new.
Apple growing fast on a dying market. Great.
They should better focus on releasing the iPhone 5 in June and not postpone it until fall....
Uhh...what big difference does three months make? The world's going to be around until the end of 2012 at least.
I think this is the two ways the market share for Macs is gained:
1. Windows users buy an iDevice, then another iDevice, then another iDevice... Then they buy a Mac.
2. Hardcore Mac users (like myself) have children and because of the heavy Mac influence from the start, they turn out to like and use Macs. Thats what happened with me. I grew up with all Macs and no Windows
You left out another important source of influence, and that's the school systems. Smart school systems usually buy Macs for the classrooms because they are much lower cost to maintain.
By maintain, I'm speaking of the time it costs to add software, upgrade programs, add perephrials, hook up networks, and all the things you don't need a staff of geeks to just keep the computers doing what you bought them for.
So, kids in all grades and into college get to use Macs a lot and love them.
IBM discovered the power of the classroom back in the 1950s. By working hard to get typing classes switched over to Selectric typewriters they created a generation of users more at home on an IMB machine than on a Royal...the market leader at the time. It almost killed Royal.
I'll not take being called "delusional" to be an insult, I'll take it as involuntary humor on your side. Someone made up a wonderful term "specturbators". That's the people the $750 PC appeals to. Reality is that the iMac will get the job done, with plenty of speed, beautiful, and reliable, much better than the $750 PC. For jobs that it can't get done, sorry mate, there is a reason why each processor in the Mac Pro alone costs a lot more than the whole $750 PC.
So that's how Dell has been staying a float by selling you a 15" model every year.
That's why Dell sells three times as many PCs. Because people have to buy three PCs instead of one Mac
(But actually, they only sell slightly more than twice as many in the USA anymore. So there are actually more Mac buyers than Dell buyers).
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They may be the case but they sure don't look it. Every Windows laptop that I have seen (I have seen quite a lot of them) and they all seem to have one thing in common, they look like a chimp put them together. There is absolutely no vision in design to how the Windows PC manufactuters build their machines. It's like they have a parts bin and could care less about how they put the parts together. When I pick up a Windows PC laptop all I can think is what a piece of junk it is. A $600 piece of junk is still a piece of junk. The Windows PC towers aren't any better.
My $1300 laptop at work requires me to press a button to release the lid before it can be opened. I still can't figure out why anyone would be willing to spend $1300 on it vs. a 13" Macbook Pro.
A few years back I had a 8 year old iMac, the daisy design. I eneded up selling it for $350. I also had a HP Windows PC tower that was 5 years old. No one wanted to buy it so I ended up donating it to the Goodwill. Pretty much puts in perspective the value of Windows PCs.
You do realize that Intel lists the processor (W3530) in the entry level Mac Pro uses for $294? And that the processor is a generation behind and significantly slower than the $750 PC (using an i7-2600 processor which also lists at $294) I mentioned? Right?
I'm as big of an Apple fan as there is. I've owned more than 2 dozen different Macs over the years dating back to the mid 80's. The license plate on my car is "MAC GUY". I paid my way through college programing on them mostly in HyperCard. I own more Apple stock than any other company's stock in my portfolio. But I'm also realistic enough to see that in some areas Apple is not price/performance competitive and probably will never be.
I hate car analogies but yeah a $50K Lexus is better than a $20K GM, but for some people it is not and will never be worth 2-3x the cost. Some people don't need or want to pay the premium for a car that can parallel park itself or rear heated seats! ;-) Lexus has a cap on what their marketshare could be no matter how great their product is which was my original point about Apple.