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I thought Apple was supposed to listen to what the EU told them. The EU (reportedly) told them, directly, to hold off on implementing the change, and still, to this day
Reportedly - as in “Emails” only Politico claims to have seen, and we don’t.
And Apple’s painting the situation does not make any sense and does not seem credible.

👉 Literally nothing would have prevented Apple from implementing it

If the EC told them “hold off on making that change” and never rescinded that request, what is Apple supposed to do?
And that’s what you do, when you’ve been given official warning - and want to avoid a fine.
Not rely on dubious “emails” to do the exact opposite - maintain your noncompliance - after having been officially cautioned.

And if that is indeed what happened, would you agree that it’s conceivable the EC was operating in bad faith?
It strains credulity.

Why should Apple ignore what the EC has directly told them? Honest question
Because they’ve received official preliminary finding of being non-compliant.
And the law is the law.
And Apple’s was undoubtedly advised by the best, most expensive legal professionals they could get.
 
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Reportedly - as in “Emails” only Politico claims to have seen, and we don’t.
What motive does Politico have in risking their reputation and making something up? And then, assuming they were risking their reputation to make something up, why did the EC not respond with “that’s ridiculous and those emails are fake and your sources are lying to you” when asked, but rather “a proposal doesn’t count unless it’s implemented.” You don’t think that’s odd at all?

The EC’s response all but confirms what Politico said happened happened.

And Apple’s painting the situation does not make any sense and does not seem credible.

👉 Literally nothing would have prevented Apple from implementing it
So let me get this straight. When the government tells Apple, in writing, that they have to provide things “free of charge” Apple is supposed to take the broadest possible interpretation of “free of charge” and they are idiots asking to be fined for not doing what the EC says, despite other interpretations for that phrase existing.

But when the EC tells them specifically not implement a change, in writing (as Politico has seen the emails) they’re supposed to assume they can implement it anyway?

Do you see the disconnect here?
 
PS @surferfb
but humor me for a moment and assume it’s true
OK, I will.

Apple’s behaviour is equivalent of you getting detained on suspicion of having committed a crime.
And then relying on the sheriff’s casually uttered advice of “If you tell us everything, we may let you out again today”.
Instead of listening to your big-time $1000/hour lawyer who told you to “keep your mouth shut under any circumstances”.

👉 That would be the level of stupidity.

“But when the EC tells them specifically not implement a change, in writing (as Politico has seen the emails) they’re supposed to assume they can implement it anyway?”
I refuse to believe it - and note that no one outside has seen those emails.

They probably told them something like “As part of this assessment the Commission considers it particularly important to obtain the views of market operators and interested third parties before deciding on next steps.”

And Apple deliberately misconstrued it.
I wouldn’t be surprised either if they “wanted” to receive that fine as basis for legal action.
 
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PS @surferfb

OK, I will.

Apple’s behaviour is equivalent of you getting detained on suspicion of having committed a crime.
And then relying on the sheriff’s casually uttered advice of “If you tell us everything, we may let you out again today”.
Instead of listening to your big-time $1000/hour lawyer who told you to “keep your mouth shut under any circumstances”.

👉 That would be the level of stupidity.
And to be clear, in this scenario the sheriff is acting in good faith? Because that’s not how I’d interpret that scenario.

EC: “We’ll lie to you/entrap you, but you should know better!”

Edit to address your edit:
They probably told them something like “As part of this assessment the Commission considers it particularly important to obtain the views of market operators and interested third parties before deciding on next steps.”
As someone who somewhat frequently dealt with reporters from the publication in question in my distant past, unless a whole lot had changed there, I am confident the article would not have been written as it was had that been the email Apple received and Politico saw.

I also think the EC would have a better response to Politico if your scenario was accurate. “We told Apple to check with “market operators” on what they thought and then get back to us and they never did” would put the issue to rest. But they didn’t do that.

Anyways it is far too late here so I’ll call it a night. Cheers!
 
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And to be clear, in this scenario the sheriff is acting in good faith?
Admittedly something I maybe didn’t quite think through when coming up with that analogy. 🤷‍♀️😉

But regardless - they wouldn’t trust the sheriff when they really want to get off the hook for good.
 
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@surferfb

Look, I wouldn’t entirely rule it out that someone at the EU was OK with lulling Apple into a false sense of security.
Maybe for publicity maybe to send a statement and payback for Apple’s initial (deliberate) non-compliance and/or out of frustration over them dragging this out.

But I definitely do not believe that Apple wanted to comply (in time and good faith) to avoid that $500m fine.
Or that they got convinced (let alone pressured) into delaying these changes.

Neither do I believe that the EU issued any kind of “instruction” to hold off on implementing these changes.
 
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That’s no different with most features take a year or two to get to EU or never leaves the states. Same with Apple Card wallet ID etc.

I have posted a list on that somewhere here.

Except iPhone mirroring delay is a direct consequence of DMA. It's not even confirmed to be arriving anytime soon. Sources from publication "Numerama" says their sources confirmed it's not coming to iOS 26 or macOS 26.

Not all but it’s expanding.

Ok? My point stands:

"Do you enjoy filling your credit card details in 50 different web services?"

Easy when you don’t subscribe to many things.
"Just stop subscribing to things" is not a good argument for "people can't remember what subscriptions they subscribed to". That's just bad for developers too. People want to spend money? Let them. And make it easy to remember/cancel.


And epic should have been allowed to have this price cut

They can have the price cut. Outside the app.

but unfortunately no the price was not the same between the PC and iOS store View attachment 2523960

1. No info on date of those screenshots. Epic has increased and lowered prices of vbucks so you're going to have to be more specific as you may be comparing two different time periods from two different platforms. Currently iOS and web are the same price at $8.99 for 1,000 vbucks.
2. 7.99 is 20% off of 9.99. It's supposed to be 6.99
3. I mentioned US dollars.
 
Actually, I'd have more issues. I would happily switched if services like Find My and iMessage or hardware like Apple Watch were interoperable with other platforms. To say nothing of the hundreds of dollars worth of software I would be losing access to.

I'm sure the lack of interoperability is entirely coincidental, though.
Whilst Apple are perfectly within their rights to release what they like and where, they seem to have forgotten that the decision that made them the company they are today was not the release of the iPhone but rather porting the iPod and iTunes to Windows.

If Apple made the watch compatible with Android handsets they'd clean up. Not that Garmin or WearOS devices are poor at all, but they'd sell a lot of extra units. This may in turn make more people curious about an iPhone like the iPod did to the Mac.

(And the increased competition would lead to product improvements to a device that has largely stagnated on its host device)
 
And to be clear, in this scenario the sheriff is acting in good faith? Because that’s not how I’d interpret that scenario.

EC: “We’ll lie to you/entrap you, but you should know better!”

Edit to address your edit:

As someone who somewhat frequently dealt with reporters from the publication in question in my distant past, unless a whole lot had changed there, I am confident the article would not have been written as it was had that been the email Apple received and Politico saw.

I also think the EC would have a better response to Politico if your scenario was accurate. “We told Apple to check with “market operators” on what they thought and then get back to us and they never did” would put the issue to rest. But they didn’t do that.

Anyways it is far too late here so I’ll call it a night. Cheers!
Unfortunately the information doesn’t ad up.
And you can read up the responses Apple refer to https://ec.europa.eu/competition/digital_markets_act/cases/202523/DMA_100109_929.pdf

As the EU told them their current policy was breaking the law. At no point in time did they tell them to not change their plan

(18) On 8 August 2024, Apple announced new possible changes to the business terms and conditions governing Apple’s relationship with app developers using the App Store, including its steering rules, for which it was inviting feedback from the market. Apple has not implemented those changes to date and those changes are, therefore, not covered by the present Decision.​

N
And touchable the admission their terms at the time did not comply.
5.1. Preliminary remarks​
Apple appears to acknowledge that some of its App Store business terms do not ensure effective compliance with Article 5(4) of Regulation (EU) 2022/192551, but it argues that “Apple’s terms should properly be considered as a package of terms, where all developers have the option to use these additional ways to communicate and promote offers if they choose.” . This argument cannot be accepted. In particular, Apple is wrong in claiming that offering one set of App Store business terms allowing for steering and steered transactions makes up for the lack of steering options in the other App Store business terms that can also be used by the app developers​

And so on…
Except iPhone mirroring delay is a direct consequence of DMA. It's not even confirmed to be arriving anytime soon. Sources from publication "Numerama" says their sources confirmed it's not coming to iOS 26 or macOS 26.
Can still be possible to release a third party solution. https://developer.apple.com/documentation/WiFiAware
Ok? My point stands:

"Do you enjoy filling your credit card details in 50 different web services?"


"Just stop subscribing to things" is not a good argument for "people can't remember what subscriptions they subscribed to". That's just bad for developers too. People want to spend money? Let them. And make it easy to remember/cancel.
No it doesn’t considering this is nothing that changes With the current status quo nor future changes.

Currently i autofill the card with the iOS password manager
They can have the price cut. Outside the app.
Should include in the app
1. No info on date of those screenshots. Epic has increased and lowered prices of vbucks so you're going to have to be more specific as you may be comparing two different time periods from two different platforms. Currently iOS and web are the same price at $8.99 for 1,000 vbucks.
2. 7.99 is 20% off of 9.99. It's supposed to be 6.99
3. I mentioned US dollars.
It’s taken 7 years ago.
 
No. They are lawfully limiting them.


And Apple forgets that 2025 isn’t 2007 anymore.


One thing I am certain of: it will take more months, if not years - and more billions in fines to subdue them into compliance.
Sorry, dude, but having that logo for profile pic naturally puts you at odds with common sense.

You can't trust da system! Man! (C)
 
And to be clear, in this scenario the sheriff is acting in good faith? Because that’s not how I’d interpret that scenario.

EC: “We’ll lie to you/entrap you, but you should know better!”

Edit to address your edit:

As someone who somewhat frequently dealt with reporters from the publication in question in my distant past, unless a whole lot had changed there, I am confident the article would not have been written as it was had that been the email Apple received and Politico saw.

I also think the EC would have a better response to Politico if your scenario was accurate. “We told Apple to check with “market operators” on what they thought and then get back to us and they never did” would put the issue to rest. But they didn’t do that.

Anyways it is far too late here so I’ll call it a night. Cheers!



When asked about the correspondence from Apple, the Commission said that its door will always be open, but that it is the “sole responsibility” of the gatekeepers to come up with product changes that comply with the law.

“The Commission made it very clear whenever Apple’s proposals were at the outset falling short of effective compliance and encouraged the company to seek market feedback,” said Commission spokesperson Lea Zuber.

“Last [month's] decision only addresses the solution that Apple decided to roll out, not any other hypothetical approach that the company might have been considering,” said Zuber.

And they have the anti competitive case as a literal guideline for themselves regarding anti steering practices
CASE AT.40437 – Apple – App Store Practices (music streaming)

So let me get this straight. When the government tells Apple, in writing, that they have to provide things “free of charge” Apple is supposed to take the broadest possible interpretation of “free of charge” and they are idiots asking to be fined for not doing what the EC says, despite other interpretations for that phrase existing.

But when the EC tells them specifically not implement a change, in writing (as Politico has seen the emails) they’re supposed to assume they can implement it anyway?

Do you see the disconnect here?

Just outbid curiosity what possible interpretation of free of charge can you possibly provide? Considering it’s not a question of the most inconceivable remote means of free of charge but reasonable possible interpretation?

(61) Article 5(4) of Regulation (EU) 2022/1925 guarantees business users this ability

“regardless of whether, for that purpose they use the core platform services of the gatekeeper”
. Accordingly, the Commission is of the view that this provision does not distinguish between communications and promotions of offers (and conclusion of contracts following steering) taking place within or outside the app. Gatekeepers should allow such communications, promotions (and conclusion of contracts following steering), free of charge, irrespective of where they take place, within or

outside the app. This is confirmed by recital 40 of that Regulation, which specifically refers to the “promotion of offers, including through a software application” of the app developer, providing that end users should be “free (...) to enter into contracts with [business users] either through the core platform services of the gatekeeper, if applicable, or from a direct distribution channel of the business user or another indirect channel that such business user uses”.

And if we read the document posted in April of 2024 we find that their complaints have been fairly straightforward and continued.

 
PS @surferfb

OK, I will.

Apple’s behaviour is equivalent of you getting detained on suspicion of having committed a crime.
And then relying on the sheriff’s casually uttered advice of “If you tell us everything, we may let you out again today”.
Instead of listening to your big-time $1000/hour lawyer who told you to “keep your mouth shut under any circumstances”.

👉 That would be the level of stupidity.


I refuse to believe it - and note that no one outside has seen those emails.

They probably told them something like “As part of this assessment the Commission considers it particularly important to obtain the views of market operators and interested third parties before deciding on next steps.”

And Apple deliberately misconstrued it.
I wouldn’t be surprised either if they “wanted” to receive that fine as basis for legal action.
The commission told them explicitly to get feedback from market participants.
But Under administrative law, regulators don’t have to bless or reject proposals in real time via informal backchannels. Compliance is assessed against the legal obligations and actual implementation, not PR gestures or trial balloons.

The DMA isn’t a negotiation; it’s a regulatory regime. Apple had ample opportunity to present its case, received expanded access, and even breached protocol in the process so claims of bad faith just don’t hold up when you look at the legal record.


Apple already knew they where in violation and had to change their current policies. So not implementing changes because you want some feedback doesn’t negate the 6 months~ of time to change their policies to be:
Free of charge
Allow steering
Allow communication and conclusions of contracts
It being universal and. It separates contracts.


The Commission’s assessment of Apple’s arguments

The Commission finds that Apple has acted at the very least negligently, as it could not have been unaware that the measures described in Section 4 of this Decision did not comply with Article 5(4) of Regulation (EU) 2022/1925.

First, Apple does not dispute that the Original Business Terms do not comply with Article 5(4) of Regulation (EU) 2022/1925 in that they totally prohibit steering within the app and Apple could not be unaware that all the conditions imposed by itunder the New Business Terms and the New Music Streaming Business Terms restrict the developer’s ability to steer.

Second, the Commission is under a legal obligation, under Regulation (EU) 2022/1925, to provide written guidance to Apple only when issuing Preliminary Findings on how it interprets Article 5(4) of that Regulation. Nonetheless, the Commission discussed Apple’s compliance solution for Article 5(4) of Regulation (EU) 2022/1925 with Apple on numerous occasions, both prior to and after the 7 March 2024 compliance deadline (for example, meeting of 16 October 2023,meeting of 14 November 2023, state of play meeting of 18 April 2024, meeting of 22 May 2024).

Notwithstanding the Commission’s recurrent feedback to Apple indicating that the three Business Terms described in this Decision do not comply with Article 5(4) of Regulation (EU) 2022/1925, Apple did not make substantial changes to its three Business Terms.
But this takes the cake page 6

On 25 June 2024, Apple’s external legal counsel requested, on behalf of Apple, access to the documents referenced in the Preliminary Findings in accordance with
Article 8(1) and (2) of Implementing Regulation (EU) 2023/8148, as well as full access to all documents contained in the Commission’s file, in accordance with Article 8(3) of Implementing Regulation (EU) 2023/814.

On 25 June 2024, the Commission provided Apple’s external legal counsel, via OneDrive, with non-confidential versions of all documents referenced and relied upon in the Preliminary Findings, as well as a file index. Apple’s external legal counsel was granted full access to the Commission’s file at the Commission’s premises via a data room that took place between 26 June 2024 and

11 July 2024 (“the Data Room”) pursuant to the terms of disclosure as laid down in the Commission’s decision of 25 June 2024 (“the Terms of Disclosure”). On 11 July 2024, the Commission approved the report drafted by Apple’s external legal counsel summarising its findings and conclusions regarding the content of (and documents in) the Commission’s file (“the Data Room Report”), which could thus be shared with Apple.

On 25 July 2024, the Commission sent a letter to Apple regarding several possible
breaches of the data room rules as laid down in the Terms of Disclosure.

In particular, the Commission expressed concerns in relation to the sharing of information from the data room with people who were not legally entitled, at the moment when the information was shared, to receive any of the information concerned.

The letter requested Apple to explain how it intended to ensure compliance with the Terms of Disclosure going forward. Both Apple and its external legal counsel responded on 8 August 2024.

Page 54

In its response to the Preliminary Findings, Apple raised two alleged procedural

shortcomings, namely: (i) an alleged lack of access to all relevant documents in the

case file; and (ii) an alleged lack of reliability of the minutes summarising several

meetings between the Commission and third parties195

.

As a general rule, the Commission considers that, as set out in Article 8(5) of

Implementing Regulation (EU) 2023/814, a request for documents may only be made within one week of receiving access to the file under the terms of disclosure. The Commission extended the deadline to make such a request upon the Apple’s external counsel’s requests, until 11 July 2024. Apple’s external counsel never made a request for access to the file after that deadline. In any event, for the reasons set out below, Apple’s arguments are unfounded.

Following Apple’s request during the Data Room, in the spirit of efficiency and good cooperation during the investigation, the Commission provided Apple’s external legal counsel with additional documents that did not relate to the subject matter of Case DMA.100109 but that made passing references to Apple’s compliance with Article 5(4) of Regulation (EU) 2022/1925. Those documents were filed in cases relating to Apple’s compliance with Article 5(7) and Article 6(4) and (12) of Regulation (EU) 2022/1925

From the file:

  • Apple formally requested access to all case materials on 25 June 2024.
  • The Commission provided access the same day via OneDrive and granted in-person data room access from 26 June to 11 July well beyond what was strictly required.
  • Apple’s lawyers were allowed to produce a Data Room Report, which the Commission approved for internal circulation.
  • Apple’s counsel even received additional documents from unrelated DMA cases (Articles 5(7) and 6(4)/(12)), simply because they made passing references to Apple’s conduct under Article 5(4).
  • Meanwhile, Apple breached the Terms of Disclosure by sharing restricted information with unauthorized individuals yet was still given a chance to explain and continue participating
  • Oh, and the deadline to request anything else? Extended beyond the legal limit, again at Apple’s request.

And what did Apple’s high-powered legal team do with that extended window?

Nothing. Nada. Not a single request.

But sure, let’s pretend Apple was wandering around Brussels with no idea what was in the case file, tragically denied the right to defend itself when in reality it didn’t even use the access it was given.

At some point, you have to stop blaming the Commission and accept that Apple fumbled its own procedural game. @surferfb

when the files provided for them after the deadline wasn’t even accessed…
 
I don't think it matters, for the simple reason that I am not the government organisation tasked with reviewing and approving the proposal put forth by Apple. My stance is, and always has been, that the DMA is simply not good legislation, and so in this regard, I welcome the push from Apple, in the search for true clarity on what is being asked here.

First and foremost, I maintain that the EU needs to be honest and admit that yes, they are without doubt violating Apple's property rights here. Address the elephant in the room - that Apple will still get compensated for their IP (be it some form of FRAND licensing arrangement or something else), and that the EU is measuring this tradeoff as a society. Apple is without doubt still going to make a ton of money, and they should still invest in their platform in the EU because.

Developers forget what the situation was like prior to the App Store. No one downloaded apps because everyone was scared of viruses and malware; that's why you had web apps. Apple created a market that had ceased to exist in the form of the iOS App Store, and they did so with their promises of safety and security and convenience and the general absence of software piracy.

One thing I am certain of - an Apple which retains control of its ecosystem is an Apple that always wins. And that's probably why so many interests groups are working so hard to crack open, what, a platform with only 20% market share worldwide?
Apple has to provide the IP in question. Something they haven’t done.

But in all honesty if you want to push against the DMA it aught to be legally sound and not legally suicidal…
 
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The commission told them explicitly to get feedback from market participants.
But Under administrative law, regulators don’t have to bless or reject proposals in real time via informal backchannels. Compliance is assessed against the legal obligations and actual implementation, not PR gestures or trial balloons.

The DMA isn’t a negotiation; it’s a regulatory regime. Apple had ample opportunity to present its case, received expanded access, and even breached protocol in the process so claims of bad faith just don’t hold up when you look at the legal record.
I was going to write something similar, but you put it more eloquently than I could have.

It is very naive to assume, that the reason why Apple is stalling the implementation of the law is due to some miscommunication with the EU Commission. There is a lot of money at stake (years maybe decades of monopoly rent), and Apple probably thinks that they can still somehow prevent the law being implemented the way it was intended.
 
So yes it wasn’t just a mistake. It was strategic noncompliance, dressed up in U.S.-style expectations of “ongoing regulatory dialogue.”

That might work in Washington, where you negotiate settlements, stall for time, or wait for court rulings. But in the EU’s codified, administrative regime, obligations kick in automatically once designated, and if you don’t comply, the burden is on you, not the regulator to fix it.

it’s about Apple trying to play an American-style game in a European court, and losing. The final ruling reads less like confusion and more like calculated foot-dragging under the mistaken assumption that the EU would “work with them.” It didn’t and legally, it doesn’t have to.
I thought Apple was supposed to listen to what the EU told them. The EU (reportedly) told them, directly, to hold off on implementing the change, and still, to this day, has not told them to implement the change, even after fining them for not doing so.

I know you doubt the story, but humor me for a moment and assume it’s true. Why should Apple ignore what the EC has directly told them? Honest question. If the EC told them “hold off on making that change” and never rescinded that request, what is Apple supposed to do?

And if that is indeed what happened, would you agree that it’s conceivable the EC was operating in bad faith?

Reportedly - as in “Emails” only Politico claims to have seen, and we don’t.
And Apple’s painting the situation does not make any sense and does not seem credible.

👉 Literally nothing would have prevented Apple from implementing it


And that’s what you do, when you’ve been given official warning - and want to avoid a fine.
Not rely on dubious “emails” to do the exact opposite - maintain your noncompliance - after having been officially cautioned.


It strains credulity.


Because they’ve received official preliminary finding of being non-compliant.
And the law is the law.
And Apple’s was undoubtedly advised by the best, most expensive legal professionals they could get.

What motive does Politico have in risking their reputation and making something up? And then, assuming they were risking their reputation to make something up, why did the EC not respond with “that’s ridiculous and those emails are fake and your sources are lying to you” when asked, but rather “a proposal doesn’t count unless it’s implemented.” You don’t think that’s odd at all?

The EC’s response all but confirms what Politico said happened happened.


So let me get this straight. When the government tells Apple, in writing, that they have to provide things “free of charge” Apple is supposed to take the broadest possible interpretation of “free of charge” and they are idiots asking to be fined for not doing what the EC says, despite other interpretations for that phrase existing.

But when the EC tells them specifically not implement a change, in writing (as Politico has seen the emails) they’re supposed to assume they can implement it anyway?

Do you see the disconnect here?

@surferfb

Look, I wouldn’t entirely rule it out that someone at the EU was OK with lulling Apple into a false sense of security.
Maybe for publicity maybe to send a statement and payback for Apple’s initial (deliberate) non-compliance and/or out of frustration over them dragging this out.

But I definitely do not believe that Apple wanted to comply (in time and good faith) to avoid that $500m fine.
Or that they got convinced (let alone pressured) into delaying these changes.

Neither do I believe that the EU issued any kind of “instruction” to hold off on implementing these changes.
Nobody’s literally lying here Apple, Politico and the Commission all have valid perspectives. The real issue is that U.S.-style “we negotiate then go to court” logic doesn’t map onto the EU’s administrative regime, where only the formal, published Decision binds and informal emails don’t pause your legal obligations.

1. On those “hold off” emails (@surferfb concern)
  • Apple’s view: “We paused because the EC told us to wait.”
  • EC’s view: “We never formally approved a pause; only our Decision under the DMA matters.”
Reality check: Under Implementing Regulation 2023/814, Article 8(5), Apple had one week (extended to 11 July 2024 at its own request) to ask for more documents but it didn’t. It got same-day OneDrive access, a physical data room for two weeks, plus bonus docs from other cases. Informal “please wait” emails are just part of the consultation phase they’re not binding “stays” of the DMA’s clear “must-do-by” deadline

1. U.S. vs. EU enforcement culture: Why this matters

In the U.S. enforcement system as I understand it, agencies frequently negotiate compliance timelines or settlements before final rulings. Firms often wait for explicit regulator approval or judicial injunctions before implementing costly changes. Enforcement is adversarial and often “deal” driven.

In contrast, the EU administrative enforcement model expects gatekeepers to self-comply promptly and fully, without needing explicit blessings on informal proposals or drafts. The Commission’s silence or cautious responses during dialogue are normal and not evidence of bad faith or regulatory “stonewalling.”

2. Then why would Politico Still Feel Confident in Its Reporting?
  • Their source is Apple, likely giving them internal correspondence showing Apple “offered” something and got no direct response.
  • They’re not saying “Apple was right legally”, they’re saying “Apple believed it was misled” a subtle but journalistically safe stance.
  • They’re working off a narrative structure: Apple builds compliance; Commission stays quiet; then drops the hammer. It reads like bureaucratic ambush.
  • Politico thrives on process coverage: leaked letters, confidential talks, narrative spin less so on the black-and-white obligations of Article 5(4) DMA or Implementing Regulation 2023/814.
So their confidence doesn’t come from deep legal assessment. It comes from Having part of the internal communications, Knowing how to present a bureaucratic story arc And betting (rightly) that most readers don’t understand how EU enforcement actually work. Especially a U.S. audience( and likely themselves too)

So sadly Politico turned a procedural misunderstanding into a narrative of regulatory ambush, which resonates with an audience unfamiliar with EU administrative law.

So it’s not that someone is lying it’s that Apple interpreted EU procedure through the wrong legal lens, and Politico ran with the more dramatic version of that story, rather than interrogating the administrative framework behind it.

I thought Apple was supposed to listen to what the EU told them. The EU (reportedly) told them, directly, to hold off on implementing the change, and still, to this day, has not told them to implement the change, even after fining them for not doing so.

I know you doubt the story, but humor me for a moment and assume it’s true. Why should Apple ignore what the EC has directly told them? Honest question. If the EC told them “hold off on making that change” and never rescinded that request, what is Apple supposed to do?

And if that is indeed what happened, would you agree that it’s conceivable the EC was operating in bad faith?
There’s no legal regime EU, U.S., Martians where you need regulator approval to stop doing something illegal.

It’s like saying, “I wanted to stop running red lights, but the police told me to wait for their feedback.

Holding of on a potential feedback doesn’t detract from your still obligated to stop breaking the law as you wait…
 
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So yes it wasn’t just a mistake. It was strategic noncompliance, dressed up in U.S.-style expectations of “ongoing regulatory dialogue.”

That might work in Washington, where you negotiate settlements, stall for time, or wait for court rulings. But in the EU’s codified, administrative regime, obligations kick in automatically once designated, and if you don’t comply, the burden is on you, not the regulator to fix it.

it’s about Apple trying to play an American-style game in a European court, and losing. The final ruling reads less like confusion and more like calculated foot-dragging under the mistaken assumption that the EU would “work with them.” It didn’t and legally, it doesn’t have to.
We can argue for days about how open or closed we like our systems, and we’re not going to agree, but I think this is a good take. While I like the intent of the DMA, I’m not super keen on it in its current form. Nonetheless, Apple’s approach to it has not been effective or useful. It hasn’t helped them at all.
 
We can argue for days about how open or closed we like our systems, and we’re not going to agree, but I think this is a good take. While I like the intent of the DMA, I’m not super keen on it in its current form. Nonetheless, Apple’s approach to it has not been effective or useful. It hasn’t helped them at all.
That’s actually the biggest surprise I’ve seen with apple’s handling and legal arguments over it.
 
Sure can’t see what would implement on Spotify considering the absence of gatekeeper elements. Even with existing competition law.

Allow musicians free access to their platform and to incorporate ads, subscriptions, etc. while still hosting the songs. They are after all, the major player in the EU and dictate to musicians what they will pay.

Agree, but the crux is how that is established and in relation to the value. It has to be quantified.

That's the hard part, what is access to such a lucrative user base worth? Can a develper survive without it solely on EPIC's store?

Personally, having lived through the old days of distribution and seen what it costs, 15% is really a good deal considering what a small developer gets for the money, and even 30% is a good deal for companies making millions.

The EPICs can no doubt go it alone, but at what cost in terms of access to customers?

Even EPIC has made it clear they want a cut if you make serious money of their store.

such as the developer agreement you pay a year.

Yea, Apple needs to restructure that to be more like EPICs where it is a cut of revenue, not just a flat fee. That way, a developer with a completely free app pays only the fee, everyone else pays a sliding scale based on revenue. Apple could also charge a d/l fee for apps that sold non-digital goods or provided services such as banks, government institutions, etc. to compensate for hosting the app; or charge a different developer fee for such apps.

I suspect, looking ahead, the next battle will be over fees for develpers to access features such as AI. Apple could incorporate a base set of on device AI features that is accessible, but more advanced ones using their cloud infrastructure could require a separate fee or subscription. Apple could, to avoid self-preferencing, charge a subscription fee, much like they do with iCloud, to us eit with Apple's own apps, and charge developers to incorporate it into theirs.
 
Allow musicians free access to their platform and to incorporate ads, subscriptions, etc. while still hosting the songs. They are after all, the major player in the EU and dictate to musicians what they will pay.
Seems as equivalent to opening up Netflix.
With the exception that any music on Spotify is free to be licensed anywhere else.

And that Spotify license the music from the musicians/ record companies. So how would you subscribe within? Just how I can’t see how it would be forced on Apple to have it in their AppStore.
That's the hard part, what is access to such a lucrative user base worth? Can a develper survive without it solely on EPIC's store?

Personally, having lived through the old days of distribution and seen what it costs, 15% is really a good deal considering what a small developer gets for the money, and even 30% is a good deal for companies making millions.

The EPICs can no doubt go it alone, but at what cost in terms of access to customers?
Well if you went back it would be argued it was a good deal as well before Apple came along. Well Apple haven’t been able to quantify that yet so it’s still the iPhone user base who conducts free business activities

Even EPIC has made it clear they want a cut if you make serious money of their store.
Well you’re still allowed to sell your game on the store with free in app purchases if you use your own payment method.
Yea, Apple needs to restructure that to be more like EPICs where it is a cut of revenue, not just a flat fee. That way, a developer with a completely free app pays only the fee, everyone else pays a sliding scale based on revenue. Apple could also charge a d/l fee for apps that sold non-digital goods or provided services such as banks, government institutions, etc. to compensate for hosting the app; or charge a different developer fee for such apps.
Will still find it unlikely to have a d/l fee that is just for some apps along arbitrary lines.

As have been stated in the regulations before the developer agreement must be universal. The app being free, selling physical pizzas or digital ones isn’t differentiated and Apple have failed to justify it.
I suspect, looking ahead, the next battle will be over fees for develpers to access features such as AI. Apple could incorporate a base set of on device AI features that is accessible, but more advanced ones using their cloud infrastructure could require a separate fee or subscription. Apple could, to avoid self-preferencing, charge a subscription fee, much like they do with iCloud, to us eit with Apple's own apps, and charge developers to incorporate it into theirs.
Seems also unlikely considering it’s just using the existing hardware on the device. Such as if you implement ChatGPT or Claude etc. They use their own infrastructure.
 
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When asked about the correspondence from Apple, the Commission said that its door will always be open, but that it is the “sole responsibility” of the gatekeepers to come up with product changes that comply with the law.

“The Commission made it very clear whenever Apple’s proposals were at the outset falling short of effective compliance and encouraged the company to seek market feedback,” said Commission spokesperson Lea Zuber.
“Last [month's] decision only addresses the solution that Apple decided to roll out, not any other hypothetical approach that the company might have been considering,” said Zuber.
That isn’t “we didn’t tell them to hold off and then fine them for holding off.” Why wouldn’t they say that? Because they clearly must have told them to hold off, and they know Apple has the receipts. You can go back and retcon that any way you like, but it’s clearly either complete incompetence or bad faith.

Remember EU has already corruptly declared iPadOS is a gatekeeper despite not meeting the quantitative metrics written into the law. They’re are not acting in good faith.

The entire law is a bad faith interference in the free market to try to harm American companies and avoid hitting EU ones in an idiotic attempt to regulate themselves out of an innovation hole caused by burdensome regulation.

Just outbid curiosity what possible interpretation of free of charge can you possibly provide? Considering it’s not a question of the most inconceivable remote means of free of charge but reasonable possible interpretation?
They’re not charging developers for communicating with end users. They’re charging developers for other services and use of IP Apple deserves to be compensated for.

And in the document you’re quoting, it says “the commission takes the view that…” - the commission doesn’t automatically have the correct interpretation of the law, as we’ve seen repeatedly with Vestager’s frequent trips to the EU court system over the years. It very well may be Apple’s interpretation is correct.
 
Seems as equivalent to opening up Netflix.
With the exception that any music on Spotify is free to be licensed anywhere else.

As I said before, sideloading and user selected sandboxing levels solve that. Open up iOS but let me deny the app access to anything I don't want them to access, as well as block acccess to third party ad servers.

And that Spotify license the music from the musicians/ record companies. So how would you subscribe within?

Spotify, IIRC, can already block music regionally, so it would be a small step to incorporate per user blocking f artists who charge subscription fees if a user didn't subscribe. The label uses a 3rd party payment system, or choses to stream ads instead of charging a subscription fee as an option as well.

The lable pays Spotify a $99 access fee, much like the developer fee, and Spotify hosts and streams. After a label makes say $1million a year on a song, Spotify gets 12%.

Just how I can’t see how it would be forced on Apple to have it in their AppStore.

I agree. Apple should be free to not host free riders who make money on the store but do not pay Apple anything.

Well if you went back it would be argued it was a good deal as well before Apple came along. Well Apple haven’t been able to quantify that yet so it’s still the iPhone user base who conducts free business activities

Yea, a 70/30 developer split would have been great then, rather that the 30/70 (if the developer was lucky).

Well you’re still allowed to sell your game on the store with free in app purchases if you use your own payment method.

But EPIC still expects a cut after you hit $1 million, regardless of how you get paid, as I read their agreement. I could be wrong.

As have been stated in the regulations before the developer agreement must be universal. The app being free, selling physical pizzas or digital ones isn’t differentiated and Apple have failed to justify it.

Which is why I think Apple may need to restructure is so that it is a combination of fixed fee plus a per d/l after x number of downloads. That lets smaller free apps survive while charging the big ones such as Spotify, Amazon, Uber, EPIC fairly and not based on type of goods. It also ends the free ride government services get; let the EU pay for their digital services hosting like everyone else.

Seems also unlikely considering it’s just using the existing hardware on the device. Such as if you implement ChatGPT or Claude etc. They use their own infrastructure.

It appears Apple is moving to also have cloud based AI as well, on its on infrastructure much like Claude, etc.; which could be sold as a separate service since it is not integral to the iPhone but could be implemented cross platform, much as iCloud today. Apple is very much moving to a services model to generate revenue streams, I could see their AI offering being multi-tiered much like iCloud.

They could charge a separate developer fee for it since it is not part of iOS but rather a separate service; while on device AI is able to be accessed as any other API.
 
Happy Sunday to all in here!
EU vs Apple threads have become like our own little club here on MR 😀

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Riddle me this: why do Apple have so much confidence in a product like the M4 Mac Mini that it practically sells itself with zero marketing and yet no confidence that their App Store offering won't retain developers compared to the competition without miring them in bureaucracy?
 
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