Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
You see?....it worked....Verizon has successfully delayed your purchase of the iPhone with all of these 'rumors'. Verizon has nothing to offer you in order to retain your loyalty/business....so they are manipulating you, Apple, and ATT for their own benefit.


Exactly, good point. I was just thinking this through and when Verizon does get the iPhone it probably wouldn't be until they have their 4G rolled out into major markets some time next year, 2010. Even then, like others have pointed out it would need to be a hybrid CDMA/LTE iPhone until their entire network is covered with 4G. Which in all likelihood the entire 4G network would not happen until 2011.

If Apple were to maintain their existing iPhone roll out schedule every June/July time frame then that would make perfect sense for release on both carriers in 2011. At which point you will hear a giant sucking sound as AT&T loses thousands of customers.
 
Exactly, good point. I was just thinking this through and when Verizon does get the iPhone it probably wouldn't be until they have their 4G rolled out into major markets some time next year, 2010. Even then, like others have pointed out it would need to be a hybrid CDMA/LTE iPhone until their entire network is covered with 4G. Which in all likelihood the entire 4G network would not happen until 2011.

If Apple were to maintain their existing iPhone roll out schedule every June/July time frame then that would make perfect sense for release on both carriers in 2011. At which point you will hear a giant sucking sound as AT&T loses thousands of customers.

Yes...and let the Price Wars begin!
 
I wonder if apple would add a fallback cmda chip in the iPhone.
I guess it all depends weather they want to expand networks or not....
 
Here in Atlanta, Verizon has given me piss poor service. AT&T is a lot better.

I'd much rather stick with AT&T than go back to Verizon, but this can only be good for Apple. Don't forget, the real money lies in establishing the iPhone/iTouch as a platform, and Apple needs access to the majority of the market for that to happen.
 
Is that a joke? The technology Verizon Wireless uses for its network is not proprietary. I believe the only carrier that uses proprietary technology is Nextel, and that network will almost certainly be phased out (as far as consumer use goes).

Sprint and many other providers in the U.S., Canada, and some other countries use the same technology as Verizon Wireless.

Sorry, I shouldn't have used the word "proprietary", but the fact is that they went against the technology and types of networks that the majority of the world adopted. Which is why with AT&T Apple made one phone for most of the world.
 
Here in Atlanta, Verizon has given me piss poor service. AT&T is a lot better.

I'd much rather stick with AT&T than go back to Verizon, but this can only be good for Apple. Don't forget, the real money lies in establishing the iPhone/iTouch as a platform, and Apple needs access to the majority of the market for that to happen.

yyyeah i really hope they don't switch to verizon. i have full service everywhere in ATL and 3G was just added to my area (about 30 mins south of the ATL airport)

not that i can access 3G but it's still nice to know if i ever upgrade to the 3G... then it will be good.

i can't imagine why AT&T wouldn't want to compete for the iPhone... then again every sales rep for AT&T tells you how horrible it is... which is really unprofessional IMO
 
Sorry, I shouldn't have used the word "proprietary", but the fact is that they went against the technology and types of networks that the majority of the world adopted. Which is why with AT&T Apple made one phone for most of the world.
Perhaps Verizon and Sprint "went against the technology and types of networks that the majority of the world adopted", but they were the first digital cell networks in the US, and they were (and are) CDMA. GSM is a late entrant to the US market by comparison.
 
Yessssssss....Now we will have a Verizon iPhone with engraved Verizon logo on the back and with pre-loaded with Verizon crapware and wallpapers. Woooohoooooooo.
 
VERIZON STINKS...but I'd love an iphone

Verizon's call quality is great but everything else about them stinks - especially their phones. I can't believe I keep falling for the every two deal, thinking I'll actually get a good phone for once. Oh well. I'll wait it out a bit longer....I don't want to pay early termination fees and have the iphone miraculously appear on their network without all the nasty V restrictions and horrible software, etc. If this is misinformation created by Verizon I'll be pretty pissed.:eek:
 
Again, Verizon's CDMA service is going to be phased out so it's irrelevant in the equation.

Ditto ATT's GSM. Both are eventual goners. But they've both said that it will be 5-10 years before that happens. There will be very few LTE phones for quite some time. They see LTE more as a way to expand broadband to larger devices, even homes and cars.

4G will make a difference to you because unlike 3G which lived alongside "voice," LTE, i.e, 4G, will be it. There will be no "voice." Everything you do on your phone will use 4G/LTE data.

In theory. In actuality, there'll be combination CDMA+LTE smartphones for years, due to coverage issues. Verizon has also said that they intend to use CDMA for voice for a long time to come. Why waste LTE bandwidth when you already have a nicely built-out voice system.

This also means that service between Verizon and ATT is likely to be fairly equal. Given the cost of rolling out LTE I wouldn't be surprised if Verizon and ATT had a roaming agreement similar to what Sprint and Verizon now have.

Doubtful. Each bid billions to buy 700MHz spectrum for LTE, with Verizon buying enormous amounts for the highest speeds and widest coverage. It's also been predicted that other carriers will have to lease FiOS lines from Verizon for their tower backhaul.
 
Nonsense on just about every count, I'm afraid. The US is just one market, and Apple's already getting a reasonable share of it - anyone who really wants an iPhone that much in the US is moving to AT&T.

Labeling arguments as nonsense don't make them so. My arguments are actually very solid from a business point of view.

1) The USA is indeed just one market. One market of relatively high-income subscribers who have a very favorable opinion of the iPhone. One markets that has seen half of all unit sales of the iPhone, with over 200+ million cellphone customers, and 135 million of them just on the major CDMA networks - Verizon and Sprint - where the iPhone is unavailable.


The rest of the world's a massively bigger market and in many respects more sophisticated in terms of maturity and some of the things that people do with their phones (e-payment in Japan being a good example). Apple would be out of their mind to spend time and money catering for a provincial requirement like US CDMA when there's a whole big GSM world to go after.

Sure, the rest of the world is a larger market. Howver, You are missing some key facts

1) Despite your claim of other countries being more advanced and trying to minimize the importance of the USA, *HALF OF ALL UNIT SALES have occured in the United states* so clearly it has been far more popular here - thus America is far more important as a lucrative market than just its total cellphone subscribers would suggest.

2) Of the four billion cellphone users in the world, how many are in the position to buy an expensive smartphone and smartphone data plan. How many of those have expressed interest in the device.

3) *Most importantly*, you are acting as if I am suggesting they replace their HSPA iPhone with a CDMA iPhone. Clearly they can do both, and the added costs in production and engineering resources is easily recouped with the millions of sales they would see of a CDMA iPhone model -- and just in the USA and Canada. Other CDMA markets would be gravy on top.
The idea is that Apple profits handsomely off of the AT&T exclusivity agreement for people who buy the iPhone, and Apple ALSO makes a reasonable profit for the people who pass on the iPhone and get an iPod Touch instead.

There is no way in hell that Apple's inflated subsidy that AT&T is paying would come anywhere near offsetting the potential revenue of a CDMA iPhone. We are talking about 135 million users on just Verizon and Sprint, and based on surveys a (relatively) enormous amount of subscribers said they were interested in the iPhone if it came to their network. (I believe it was something like 20%).

Even assuming a *very* conservative 8-10 million CDMA sales over the next year, and the normal $200 subsidy that Verizon and Sprint usually apply to expensive smartphones, you are talking a revenue number in the billions. This would easily offset the engineering involved and increased fixed costs of having two models -- not to mention that Verizon's LTE network will rely on CDMA as a fallback. Perhaps more importantly, they don't even expect their first LTE phones until the second-half of 2011 at the earliest. So Apple is going to have to get into supporting CDMA engineering/testing anyways.


260,000,000 million cell phone users in the US so ~100 million is a nice market. However, globally there are 4,100,000,000 cell phone users. ~400 million isn't that much compared to 4 billion and considering Apple wanted to distribute the iPhone globally, it makes sense for them to choose what most people have.

Actually just Verizon and Sprint combined is over 135 million. The rest are either on Tmobile (no nationwide 3G network yet), small regional carriers, or prepaid. The iPhone interest on AT&T is going to saturate eventually and most of the individuals on another carrier that were interested in switching to get the iPhone have already done so considering it's been nearly two years since the iPhone release which means everyones contracts on other carriers should have expired by now. Obviously AT&T will continue to siphon a stream of users from other carriers, but there are surely millions of interested potential iPhone customers who will not switch to AT&T.
Look at AT&T's coverage (or lackthereof) in the west, their spotty 3G coverage, even whole states are left out! Also, Verizon has a HUGE amount of small business and corporate accounts that people are stuck on.

Secondly, I never said they should REPLACE the HSPA iPhone with a CDMA model. They can easily create both models and cell the CDMA one in North/South America where most of the CDMA networks are. The revenue would easily offset the relatively minor engineering costs.



This reminds me of the US senator who tried to insist that a CDMA network got built in Iraq after the invasion, despite the fact that it's completely surrounded by countries running GSM - the point, unsurprisingly, being that he had CDMA hardware vendors in his state. Fortunately someone actually saw sense and Iraq joined the rest of the world.

Hmm, I don't see the connection. The situation in Iraq was ridiculous -- the iPhone one is a solid business case.
 
Why is it so hard for people to understand? The negotiations are for 2010. By then Verizon will have launched their 4G networks in selected cities so Apple will have an excuse to launch an iphone that uses LTE. It would be the same iphone that AT&T (which will most likely accelerate their own 4G network launch) and the rest of the planet will also use.

No, Apple will not launch a new gen iphone for both AT&T and verizon (GSM and CDMA) in June 2009. And duh, since it will still be the year 2009 in June the exclusivity deal with AT&T will still be in effect.

My god this isn't rocket science people!

Not rocket science, but certainly more complex than you mistakenly believe.

1) Production ready LTE cellphone chipsets will not be out for another 18+ months. Verizon expects first LTE phones to be available in the second-half of 2011.

2) LTE phones on Verizon's network will have to support their CDMA network as a fallback until their LTE network overtakes it in coverage. This will be many years from now. Thus apple will have to become familar with CDMA engineering anyways.

3) Verizon's LTE iPhone will have to be a different model anyways, with the rest supporting LTE and HSPA/GSM.



Considering that Verizon is moving off of the CDMA network onto LTE, I don't see Apple investing the R&D for a CDMA only phone. Considering the time it takes to deploy a usable new cell network, I don't know if Apple would wait until the LTE network is ready. I'm going to have to go with the dual band CDMA/HSPDA iPhone in 2010 as the most likely possibility from my point of view.

Yep, even when the LTE network is functional, LTE phones will need to be compatible with CDMA as a fallback. Also, Verizon doesn't expect LTE phones until second-half 2011 at the earliest. The first devices will be laptop modems



Verizon is years away from their network meshing with Apple's plans. Apple doesn't need Verizon. Verizon is realizing it needs Apple to be viable in the smartphone market.
You are right, Apple doesn't NEED Verizon or Sprint. But if they want to be able to target 2/3 of the USA cellphone market they do.


Every CDMA phone I've owned had poor battery life vs. GSM; this was especially noticeable with Blackberrys. Do current CDMA phones have equal battery life to GSM?

CDMA is actually far more efficient than GSM/HSPA with tower handoffs and provides a little better overall battery life. Look at some reviews of devices available on both techs..


Gawd, Apple will just hookup with anybody. Verizon is the worst coverage in my area. My friends have to drive in their car two blocks to get reception.... lol

Nothing like anecdotal evidence is there.. Go take a look at their coverage maps, particularly their 3G maps.
 
Man, AT&T's wireless network is the pits. After many years with Verizon cellphones, I got an iPhone. After a year, I switched back to my Verizon phone and bought an iTouch to hold me over until something like this happens (i.e., a Verizon iPhone). I will be first in line at my Apple Store if the iPhone really does come out for Verizon. Please do it, Apple!
 
Not rocket science, but certainly more complex than you mistakenly believe.

1) Production ready LTE cellphone chipsets will not be out for another 18+ months. Verizon expects first LTE phones to be available in the second-half of 2011.

2) LTE phones on Verizon's network will have to support their CDMA network as a fallback until their LTE network overtakes it in coverage. This will be many years from now. Thus apple will have to become familar with CDMA engineering anyways.

3) Verizon's LTE iPhone will have to be a different model anyways, with the rest supporting LTE and HSPA/GSM.





Yep, even when the LTE network is functional, LTE phones will need to be compatible with CDMA as a fallback. Also, Verizon doesn't expect LTE phones until second-half 2011 at the earliest. The first devices will be laptop modems




You are right, Apple doesn't NEED Verizon or Sprint. But if they want to be able to target 2/3 of the USA cellphone market they do.




CDMA is actually far more efficient than GSM/HSPA with tower handoffs and provides a little better overall battery life. Look at some reviews of devices available on both techs..




Nothing like anecdotal evidence is there.. Go take a look at their coverage maps, particularly their 3G maps.

You are assuming that Apple will infact release two phones. Even the Verizon CEO doesnt think Apple will make a CDMA phone, why would they then go ahead and make an LTE/CDMA and LTE/GSM phone if they haven't been interested in a plain CDMA phone? Apple will more than likely release one LTE phone (with GSM fallback to please AT&T).
 
I jumped ship from Verizon and bought an Iphone when it lauched almost 2 years ago. Now that my contract is about to expire I was preparing to just upgrade when to refresh happens in june/july but now I think I may just hold off and wait to see if anymore news comes our way in Q3/Q4 of 2009. Because I would jump back to Verizon in a heartbeat. This ATT service (bad reception and ever worse text messaging delays) here in NY/NJ is enough to make me never look back.

I've never had Verizon, we switched from Alltel. We were with Alltel, before they were Alltel... they were GTE Mobile back then. Great move for us. Better reception, better plan, better everything. We never experience dropped calls or problems. The worse service we ever had was with Sprint, but that was a number of years ago. Most of my out-of-state friends have Verizon and they all want iPhones.
 
I've been with VZW for approximately 4 years and the service is great, but apart of me doesn't see Apple coming to terms with VZW. VZW has their ugly UI on everything...their app store sucks...their Get It Now! service is terrible. I don't think I want to boot up an iPhone to that stupid VZW Red Check instead of an actual Apple logo.

I just don't see Apple relinquishing any of their control in regards to OS, App Store, Warranty/Repair terms, etc. I don't see VZW compromising either.
 
Nonsense on just about every count, I'm afraid. The US is just one market, and Apple's already getting a reasonable share of it - anyone who really wants an iPhone that much in the US is moving to AT&T. The rest of the world's a massively bigger market and in many respects more sophisticated in terms of maturity and some of the things that people do with their phones (e-payment in Japan being a good example). Apple would be out of their mind to spend time and money catering for a provincial requirement like US CDMA when there's a whole big GSM world to go after.
I'm suprised no one has mentioned this yet clearly with the 40% figure of new subscriptions on ATT, people that actually are going to buy an iPhone are willing to switch. They may be waiting for contracts to end but they are switching. While Verizon users have had terrible phones for ever and most of their decent smartphones are blackberrys, which give you two groups that mostly makeup Verizon users blackberry and free phone people neither of who give a **** about an iphone. And as for all the people who say "oh but id totally get an iphone on Verizon" are for the most part full of it.
 
Oh Joy and Rapture...Sorta

Verizon has a great 3G network. So does AT&T for what areas have it. AT&T have some great phones. So does Verizon, the ones they haven't crippled to heck and back! I hope Apple tells them that if you want our phone on your network that we have control over it, PERIOD. Verizon would have more customers, including myself, if it wouldn't cripple its phones. The areas I live in have great AT&T service and I think that Verizon getting an iPhone would force AT&T to lower prices on the stupidly expensive data plans. And just a side note abot AT&T. They need new messaging plans. 20 bucks for unlimited messaging which includes text, pic, and vid (iPhone as of right now does not MMS, will be adding pic messaging in June-ish) is a bit much. So I am paying a premium for only sending text messages. Anyways, thank you all for letting me voice myself.
 
You see?....it worked....Verizon has successfully delayed your purchase of the iPhone with all of these 'rumors'. Verizon has nothing to offer you in order to retain your loyalty/business....so they are manipulating you, Apple, and ATT for their own benefit.

Apple can come out and say that they are not negotiating with Verizon.

That's how negotiations work in real life. Apple is playing with AT&T on contract extension by dangling Verizon's name. Verizon is playing with RIM and Palm by dangling Apple's name.
 
I would love to see this happen. Especially with Verizon's upcoming 4g network.

This won't happen...
let's see, Apple will produce one 4g phone that will be usable in oh, only a couple urban areas and provide NO coverage (nothing, nada, zip) outside of these select cities...
Maybe this is will be an Apple-Verizon Boost-mobile style adventure...
or not.

The key is the backup!!!!
AT&T's sh*tty 3G is backed up by edge and so is T-mo's, etc.
Verizon will have no backup to fall to unless Apple produces a chip just for them which begs the question why they just don't do it for the current CDMA network.
 
I've been with VZW for approximately 4 years and the service is great, but apart of me doesn't see Apple coming to terms with VZW. VZW has their ugly UI on everything...their app store sucks...their Get It Now! service is terrible.

As has been pointed iout many times in this and other threads, you have nothing to fear, since Verizon doesn't mess with smartphone UIs or restrict app availability.

That's unlike Apple, who only allows their own UI and app store. If you want to worry about something, worry about Apple deciding what you should like.
 
i'm happpy.:) i think if it were to happen it would kind of be like the BlackBerry, certain models available for certain carriers. not saying Apple would favor one over the other, they might just tailor some features to a carrier's likings.

EDIT: *crosses fingers* i graduate from high school in May 2010, hopefully a Verizon iPhone is out.....graduation gift?!? i think so.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.