Apple and Verizon in iPhone Negotiations for 2010?

[carrjar]

Perfect Marriage

This is exciting news. How can anyone not like hearing this? Bend over VZW...and take it like a man.

 

[Diode]

LOL! Verizon's switch from CDMA to LTE would not happen overnight or even over one year. Do you have any idea how horrendously expensive building and maintaining a cellular network is? The transition has to be a slow, gradual process for many reasons. If they were transition suddenly over a year, it would cost tens of billions of dollars which would have to be spent in one huge chunk, and millions of customers with existing contracts and CDMA phones would wake up in the morning and have no service. Besides, one article already stated that Verizon is planning on rolling out the service for "other devices" first (meaning wireless broadband USB/ExpressCard dongles for laptops) and then eventually move on to handsets later. Also, see my post above for my prediction of the CDMA/GSM hybrid iPhone.

I do agree that Apple will ingeniously use this to their advantage. I believe that the iPhone will play a big part in helping to put the smack on the greedy cellular providers who charge $20 for unlimited texting, when sending a text message costs them fractions of a cent.

The BB world edition is Edge only. Having two 3G capable radios in the phone would be too taxing on the battery imo.

 

[bytethese]

They wouldn't have to. I've said it before and I'll say it again: There could and should be a hybrid CDMA/GSM iPhone. There are already several other phones, Verizon's BlackBerry "World Edition" for example, that use Verizon's CDMA network when in the U.S. but also have a SIM card slot for international roaming. It is therefore completely possible that a CDMA/GSM hybrid iPhone could be produced, with dual radios for the appropriate carriers. Verizon using the CDMA and AT&T using the GSM. True, Apple would not want to make several different iPhone models for several different carriers, and they won't. The hybrid iPhone is the path that makes the most sense and is, IMHO what will eventually end up being done.

...Says a guy who WANTS AN iPHONE REALLY BADLY and is 8 months into a Verizon contract.

Yes but RIM does make several different models for specific carriers. Curve on AT&T != Curve on T-Mobile, etc. Putting dual radios in teh device will increase cost of the device in several areas. The hardware itself as well as some development costs associated with engineering a dual radio device. Re-engineering to fit another radio would need to be done.

Personally I'm an AT&T customer and don't think I'd ever use Verizon as a wireless carrier unless they offered a price so great for iPhone service to make me forget past nightmares.

 

[alm99]

This is my dilemma....I want an iPhone when they update it in June but would prefer Verizon to AT&T. Come on Apple, do it!! It's a good move.

Same here, I was set on switching over once the new iPhone is released, but now this news.


AT&T doesn't have 3G where I live, whereas Verizon does. I don't want to be stuck in a 2 year contract with them until 2011 if Verizon is coming out with it in 2010.

Arghhhh!!!!

 

[TomSmithMacEd]

Yeah! For those of us who live in North Dakota ATT isn't even an option. Its Verizon or nothing. This is a good thing.

 

[SactoGuy18]

Unless Apple can offer a cellphone that works with CDMA, any negotiations with Verizon will not work. Apple wisely chose GSM because most of the world's cellphones run off GSM.

 

[iPhoneNYC]

I often post here how inferior ATTs service is in NY. Their cell signal can't penetrate NYC buildings so iPhone users end up not being able to make calls in their apartments. When I get lazy I sometimes use Truphone (and have to pay per minute) to make a call via wifi in my apartment. One simple software solution for ATT is for the iPhone to be able to switch to VOIP when wifi or 3G is present. This would be an immediate upgrade to their suck service.

 

[xhambonex]

Unless Apple can offer a cellphone that works with CDMA, any negotiations with Verizon will not work. Apple wisely chose GSM because most of the world's cellphones run off GSM.

They aren't talking about a CDMA phone deal here.

"the article claims that this would be a CDMA product, but given that Verizon boss Ivan Seidenberg himself ruled out a CDMA iPhone and opened the door for an LTE one, we're inclined to believe that the carrier would like to see this product help inaugurate the first slivers of its commercial 4G network in 2010. Since AT&T (along with the rest of the world) is moving toward LTE, an LTE-powered iPhone is a forgone conclusion" - Engadget

Verizon will be rolling out this new world standard before At&t next year and since both At&t and Verizon will both be going this direction, it could be possible to see Apple release the phone for verizons LTE network. Could be possible.

 

[str1f3]

In NYC, where I live, ATT's cell phone service is notoriously bad. It's been written about in the NY Times and people here just accept it to use their iPhones. I can't make a call in my midtown apartment. The ATT signal is weak and has problems penetrating the NY buildings. The problem is, if you go to their website, my area is listed as having the "best" service, i.e. there will be no improvements. I know from reading these forums that ATT has it's strengths in different parts of the country. So all I ask is to have an iPhone with a provider that works in my major metropolitan area. Verizon would be very welcome and I know many here in NYC would switch in a second.

I'm in NYC as well. AT&T is notoriously bad. The difference between AT&T and Verizon here is that Verizon decided a few years ago to completely lace NYC with cell towers. AT&T has never shown that kind of committment to its network. If AT&T has lousy coverage in the most important metropolitan area they can't be that great anywhere else.

Verizon could conceivably come out with a dual band phone which would be the best option but I get the feeling the chances are small. I will say the day Verizon gets the iPhone, AT&T would be finished.

 

[Chupa Chupa]

Unless Apple can offer a cellphone that works with CDMA, any negotiations with Verizon will not work. Apple wisely chose GSM because most of the world's cellphones run off GSM.

Except that 4G for ATT, Verizon, and many carriers in Europe and Asia is going to be LTE. Verizon is dumping CDMA and ATT is dumping GSM. In short, LTE will be the cell phone standard by 2015.

LTE is similar to VOIP for cell phones, i.e., everything is data. The concept of "voice minutes" goes to the Smithsonian. The objections Verizon had w/ the iPhone also go away because you'll be paying by the bit whether you are talking to your girlfriend or texting her or looking at her facebook page.

So it's quite possible for Apple to launch an LTE phone for Verizon next year when it rolls out LTE while keeping the GSM phone for everyone else until they get their LTE up and running.

The downside is that we can expect data to become a lot more expensive than it is now. The days of the $30-60 unlimited data plan are coming to a close.

 

[Chupa Chupa]

I get the feeling that USA Today's sources are coming from Apple and they are using negotiation tactics to get a better deal with AT&T. While I would like an iPhone version on verizon, the smarter move by Apple would be to wait until 4G has some serious coverage in 2011. They would have to produce a CDMA phone for the one more year that verizon would have it.

Verizon isn't going to flip a switch and all the sudden everything will be LTE. Just think about when Apple went from PPC to Intel. Any big jump to different technology takes years to complete. Of course Verizon has to start somewhere and what better phone to rocket LTE adoption than the iPhone.

 

[Stately]

It may be unlikely, but I feel ATT has milked the iPhone user dry. In areas where there is spotty service at best ATT doesn't upgrade its cell system and leaves 3G for the big metropolitan areas. I little competition would only be good for the iPhone users - and would let the customer chose the best service in their area. If this deal with Verizon ever happened I think it would be clear that ATT would lose hundreds of millions for their lack of concern for the everyday user.

Not only that, if you have an iphone, have you looked at your bill lately? That was enough to deter me after a while. I'm now waiting for Verizon to use my iphone again and pray for decent priced plans to ensue.

 

[kdarling]

"the article claims that this would be a CDMA product, but given that Verizon boss Ivan Seidenberg himself ruled out a CDMA iPhone and opened the door for an LTE one, we're inclined to believe that the carrier would like to see this product help inaugurate the first slivers of its commercial 4G network in 2010. Since AT&T (along with the rest of the world) is moving toward LTE, an LTE-powered iPhone is a forgone conclusion" - Engadget

Unless LTE was everywhere in the USA by 2010 (not likely), any Verizon (or ATT) LTE phone is going to need a CDMA or GSM fallback radio. That makes it carrier dependent for years to come.

 

[kallisti]

I'm already written about this too many times, so i'll keep it short.

It would be an understatement to say that I am disappointed that Apple doesn't *already* have a CDMA iPhone. There is NO legitimate argument for not creating one (or using a dual-CDMA/HSPA chipset in the single model iPhone) as there are ~100 million CDMA customers in the United States --- easily the largest potential market for the iPhone so far based upon total cellphone users and the iPhone's extensive popularity among the public. Beyond that, there are ~400 million CDMA subscribers in the world, and in the future carriers like Verizon who are moving to LTE will continue to run their CDMA network and possibly have dual-use LTE/CDMA devices for the 1-2+ years required to build-out their new network to the footprint of the existing one.

Although we don't know the details, this enormous potential market obviously overshadows any benefits from maintaining exclusivity with AT&T. It may have been necessary initially to enter the market, but now it is just a big ball and chain. Even if opening the iPhone to the Verizon and Sprint led to a reduced average subsidy, the potential doubling or more of unit sales would easily more than make up for the lower revenue per phone.

As an Apple enthusiast, device owner, stockholder, and especially as a fledgling software developer, I will be very upset if Apple continues this nonsense exclusivity.

One point you didn't address but which may play a role is Verizon's penchant for neutering their phones. The appstore may be a bigger road block to a Verizon iPhone than CDMA.

 

[terryzx]

I had decided to go to AT&T when my Verizon contract expires in a few months. So this weekend I went to the local mall ATT&T store to see about signing up and then get the new iPhone when it arrives.

Once AGAIN they tried to convince me to get a different phone, and they were just plain rude and know NOTHING about any of the phones or technology. THEN on top of that, they wanted me to give them a $750 deposit when I have decent credit and have never missed a Verizon ON TIME payment in over 7 years.

I have decided that as much as I lust after the iPhone, I will NEVER go to AT&T for ANYTHING

If I have to with til the 4G network on Verizon is working to get one....then I will. Verizon has treated me well and they customer support is the best I have dealt with aside from Apple. So for me it is VERIZON or NOTHING

 

[Stately]

AT&T can rot in the depths of HELL!
Thieves! Nothing but THIEVES!
Thank $DEITY I do pre-paid. Ill never sign a contract with these immoral pirates.
I had built up $400 in pre-paid time with them on my 1G iPhone. After a billing error they reset my balance to $0 and REFUSE to re-authorize my balance back to $400. So they stole $400 dollars from me. I am pissed and can't wait for another carrier to pick up the iPhone before I buy another iPhone.
FSCK AT&T!

I don't know that it would make you feel any better, but people have been cheated out of a lot more than that by AT&T. They know that no one sits by their phone checking their minutes after every single call and no one saves every bill transaction in their text messages to keep track of payments made. Even then you may be able to fight them once or twice but that third time they make up some story about your bill being backdated or something. . or they say "no you didn't pay about 5 months ago and so it's just been tagging along and decided to show up on this bill all of a sudden." I cut my service for $145 about 2 months ago and it was the best $145 I have spent in a long time. Not to mention, that's probably what my bill would have been with their sneaky overcharging. People need to wise up, whether they have the money or not, because being cheated is being cheated and it's wrong. Here I come Verizooooon ! !

 

[terryzx]

One point you didn't address but which may play a role is Verizon's penchant for neutering their phones. The appstore may be a bigger road block to a Verizon iPhone than CDMA.

Verizon does not mess with the smart phones or Blackberry’s

You need to get your info straight

They only use the interface on the basic phones and mostly because the people who use the base phones are basically too stupid to use a real interface.

They will not be messing with the UI on the iPhoneor any of the other high end equiptment.

 

[abprime]

I've been with Verizon for a long time now, and I would be absolutely thrilled if Apple ended it's exclusivity with AT&T and made the iPhone available to other carriers. I've been operating with my regular VZ phone and an iPod Touch for about 6 months now, but it's obviously no substitute for always being connected on the 3G network. I just really don't want to switch carriers JUST to get an iPhone. I think iPhone sales would go through the roof if this came to be once the 4G network is in place.

 

[Chupa Chupa]

I think iPhone sales would go through the roof if this came to be once the 4G network is in place.

Pretty sure that has already happened w/o Verizon, and that sales will continue to be strong w/o Verizon as long as Apple pushes the iPhone to new levels and doesn't stand on its laurels. There are plenty of cellphone carrier agnostics around. In fact it's rare to find loyalty in an industry that treats customers like apples on a tree.

 

[mr_matalino]

"USA Today speculates that even if Apple did open the iPhone up to Verizon, it would likely also remain available to AT&T customers."

You don't say?

 

[kdarling]

One point you didn't address but which may play a role is Verizon's penchant for neutering their phones. The appstore may be a bigger road block to a Verizon iPhone than CDMA.

Getting pretty tired of this ignorant myth.

Verizon doesn't restrict what application, ringtone, music, video, or theme that you put on their RIM or WM smartphones. They also don't remove WiFi.

What they HAVE done in the past, is restrict GPS to their own VZNavigator app, which caused people to constantly find and load new ROMs to get around it (the Verizon version of jailbreaking). They've finally promised to remove that restriction. About time.

Otherwise, it's Apple that has done more neutering. One year of no 3G. One year of no third party apps. Two years of crippled Bluetooth. Only one app store available, with apps totally chosen by Apple instead of letting you decide. (Otherwise we'd have Sling and tethering right now... and adult apps.) Etc.

 

[techfreak85]

great news. unfortunately, probably not going to happen. i am eligible for a vz phone upgrade in the first half of '10 so that works well timing wise. but i would defenatly wait in line that summer to get one.

They aren't talking about a CDMA phone deal here.

"the article claims that this would be a CDMA product, but given that Verizon boss Ivan Seidenberg himself ruled out a CDMA iPhone and opened the door for an LTE one, we're inclined to believe that the carrier would like to see this product help inaugurate the first slivers of its commercial 4G network in 2010. Since AT&T (along with the rest of the world) is moving toward LTE, an LTE-powered iPhone is a forgone conclusion" - Engadget

Verizon will be rolling out this new world standard before At&t next year and since both At&t and Verizon will both be going this direction, it could be possible to see Apple release the phone for verizons LTE network. Could be possible.

if apple wanted to go to verizon with LTE, they would still need a cmda layer on the phone. and that i think is the biggest reason they wont have a verizon iphone.

 

[ryanasimov]

Battery life of CDMA

Every CDMA phone I've owned had poor battery life vs. GSM; this was especially noticeable with Blackberrys. Do current CDMA phones have equal battery life to GSM?

 

[kage207]

For all those who think by Verizon getting the iPhone that it will drive down prices... it won't. Reason being, they'd lose potential money from costumers, you can say they can make it up in the mass amounts, but as a business mind-set, you use a thing called price leading. Since AT&T basically has the same product, they'd just market on how much "better" their network is compared to AT&T and make money.

 

[danny_w]

Unless LTE was everywhere in the USA by 2010 (not likely), any Verizon (or ATT) LTE phone is going to need a CDMA or GSM fallback radio. That makes it carrier dependent for years to come.

Remember when AT&T went to GSM from analog? Their gsm network at the time was garbage and your phone was useless a good bit of the time (at least here in Austin). They really needed a good analog/gsm hybrid phone. Yes, there were a few of them (Siemens had probably the best) but they didn't work all that well. Calls were supposed to transition from one network to the other to keep from dropping calls but it rarely worked, so that quit advertising that as a feature. I personally went back to analog for another year or so until they got a working digital network. I expect the same would be true of a CDMA/GSM phone hybrid.