Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Perspective in definitions is a no go. When someone says that an app is not professional, due to the definition of a professional app, he means that no professional work can be done on this app. Or at least that's what I understand from it.

If they clarify further that what they mean is, it's not suitable for their professional work, I have nothing against that. But they don't and their wording exactly means that "this is not for ANY professional out there". Nobody seems to make their argument personal and generalize immediately.

About your analogy, I'd say it's not the poorest analogy I've seen but if you consider the functions, I'd say it's poor. You cannot use the car you described as a race car. In addition to that, no race driver can use that as a race car.

But FCPX as it stands today can be used by "some" professionals to do their work. I hope we agree on this.


I agree, I don't see why a professional plumber couldn't make a promo video with this.

As for film/Advertising, no, you can't work without XML/EDL options.
 
I agree, I don't see why a professional plumber couldn't make a promo video with this.

As for film/Advertising, no, you can't work without XML/EDL options.

Again, go back to my old argument. What happens if Fincher cuts his next picture on this app? What will you say then?

Or back to my older argument. Everyone, including Apple themselves told Minghella and Munch that they can't cut an epic like Cold Mountain on a, back then, rather immature software known as Final Cut 3. And they did and got a best editing nomination out of it.

So sentences like "you can't" "nobody can" immediately should be removed once people type it down. There has to be some anti generalization filter people can click to remove all the generalizations from their arguments.
 
Again, go back to my old argument. What happens if Fincher cuts his next picture on this app? What will you say then?

What happens when 90 percent of film makers don't cut their next flick using FCPX? What will you say then?

Funny how that works, aye? :)
 
What happens when 90 percent of film makers don't cut their next flick using FCPX? What will you say then?

Funny how that works, aye? :)

What is funny is you're incapable of understanding a simple thing.

When someone claims that "this software can't be used for professional work", and Fincher cuts his next picture with this app, that "proves" that that person was wrong.

When I say that "this software can be used for professional work", and 90% of film makers cut their films with other software, that doesn't prove me wrong.

To prove me wrong you have to show proof that nobody, not a single professional can use this software to cut their next footage.

In logic, to prove the negation of an argument which starts with "for all", you find one counter example (i.e. Fincher) and show that that argument isn't true for all.

But to prove the negation of an argument which starts with "There exists at least one", then you need to prove that there exists nothing for which the argument is true, and showing that the negated argument is true for the rest, except that one, doesn't help anyone.
 
Great to see it finally launched, but I am a bit angry that there is NO upgrade price for those of us who have more than one copy to upgrade :mad:

Buy once, install on all (up to 5) systems with the same AppleID. One price, not five.
 
I agree, I don't see why a professional plumber couldn't make a promo video with this.

As for film/Advertising, no, you can't work without XML/EDL options.
More excerpts from REDUSER: "I wish everyone would just come down and take a breather. As everyone knows, Apple is super secretive about future plans. My friend had just poked around FCPx code and he discovered an XML import and also python scripting. It's in there, it's just not available trough a GUI. So, everyone, please give FCPx a bit more time, at least more that an hour, before you decide to jump the ship. It looks like the infrastructure MAY BE in place for the Pro functionality to be added by the third party developers."

If they build it, we will come ;)
Well Im already there actually :)
 
What is funny is you're incapable of understanding a simple thing.

When someone claims that "this software can't be used for professional work", and Fincher cuts his next picture with this app, that "proves" that that person was wrong.

When I say that "this software can be used for professional work", and 90% of film makers cut their films with other software, that doesn't prove me wrong.

To prove me wrong you have to show proof that nobody, not a single professional can use this software to cut their next footage.

In logic, to prove the negation of an argument which starts with "for all", you find one counter example (i.e. Fincher) and show that that argument isn't true for all.

But to prove the negation of an argument which starts with "There exists at least one", then you need to prove that there exists nothing for which the argument is true, and showing that the negated argument is true for the rest, except that one, doesn't help anyone.

What is funny is you're incapable of understanding a simple thing - sarcasm and tongue in cheek humor/mocking. Have a great afternoon
 
Again, go back to my old argument. What happens if Fincher cuts his next picture on this app? What will you say then?

You could cut a film on Movie Maker if you wanted to but I think what everyone is trying to say is that it would be a lot more tiring and cumbersome to do it through FCP X rather than say FCS3 or the comparative AVID suite.

I think the main point that everyone is trying to make is that this software seems on the surface to have less functionality than FCP7 but as has been said before it is a totally new build so they couldn't just borrow the code from the previous version they would have to rewrite it from scratch (pretty much).

My opinion on the whole thing is that the day is young. Up till this morning people were still making great things on FCS3 which was the most current FCP. Nothing is going to stop anyone still using that but I think what Apple is focusing on is the more prosumer market and the new wave of digital cinematographers out there.
 
Again, go back to my old argument. What happens if Fincher cuts his next picture on this app? What will you say then?

Taht is the point. He can't. The edit part would be fine. But you can't export out of FCPX to a color, online of VFX workflow.

It's like telling me what if Lance Armstrong will win his next race on a bike with no wheels.

This version of final cut removed the crucial tools that make it useful in a production environment. I am the workflow person at a commercial studio and in the process compiling a document for our producers so they are prepared for the inquiries. Final with the current export tools is as useful as windows movie-maker in the workflows we use.

All of the work we shoot right now is edited on Avid (a majority) or Final Cut and Premiere. In ALL cases the editing program does an offline edit than passes of an EDL to conform the hi-res footage. Until the tools are added to FCP X it doesn't work as part of a workflow. You can make an edit and then you are stuck with it.

Still it will have it's uses, just not in the movie making industry, not in this state. Other than that it's a decent enough demo of what it can do. We just can't use it.
 
What is funny is you're incapable of understanding a simple thing - sarcasm and tongue in cheek humor/mocking. Have a great afternoon

Too bad that you can't really make me believe you were being sarcastic. It really seemed like you were taking a shot at my argument.

Anyway.
 
You could cut a film on Movie Maker if you wanted to but I think what everyone is trying to say is that it would be a lot more tiring and cumbersome to do it through FCP X rather than say FCS3 or the comparative AVID suite.

I think the main point that everyone is trying to make is that this software seems on the surface to have less functionality than FCP7 but as has been said before it is a totally new build so they couldn't just borrow the code from the previous version they would have to rewrite it from scratch (pretty much).

My opinion on the whole thing is that the day is young. Up till this morning people were still making great things on FCS3 which was the most current FCP. Nothing is going to stop anyone still using that but I think what Apple is focusing on is the more prosumer market and the new wave of digital cinematographers out there.

Agreed. But what people are trying to say and what they actually say don't seem to match then. :)
 
Taht is the point. He can't. The edit part would be fine. But you can't export out of FCPX to a color, online of VFX workflow.

It's like telling me what if Lance Armstrong will win his next race on a bike with no wheels.

This version of final cut removed the crucial tools that make it useful in a production environment. I am the workflow person at a commercial studio and in the process compiling a document for our producers so they are prepared for the inquiries. Final with the current export tools is as useful as windows movie-maker in the workflows we use.

All of the work we shoot right now is edited on Avid (a majority) or Final Cut and Premiere. In ALL cases the editing program does an offline edit than passes of an EDL to conform the hi-res footage. Until the tools are added to FCP X it doesn't work as part of a workflow. You can make an edit and then you are stuck with it.

Still it will have it's uses, just not in the movie making industry, not in this state. Other than that it's a decent enough demo of what it can do. We just can't use it.

Hold on, EDL isn't really necessary to do what I said. There are many editors who haven't used EDL for a decade now. Maybe I'm confused but I'd ask for a second opinion on this.
 
Agreed. But what people are trying to say and what they actually say don't seem to match then. :)

I appreciate semantics. I really do. I value it. But I think in this case - you're just splitting hairs. It's been outlined why FCPX isn't really ready for primetime. You've said that it really isn't and will improve. At the end of the day - some will be able to continue working as they have - and others who WERE able to - won't - if they choose to move exclusively to FCPX.

We're not in court. You don't have to be 100 percent literal :)
 
I appreciate semantics. I really do. I value it. But I think in this case - you're just splitting hairs. It's been outlined why FCPX isn't really ready for primetime. You've said that it really isn't and will improve. At the end of the day - some will be able to continue working as they have - and others who WERE able to - won't - if they choose to move exclusively to FCPX.

We're not in court. You don't have to be 100 percent literal :)

I don't think I'm splitting hairs. If you have followed all the posts in this thread today, there were a lot of "this is not a professional app" "you can't do anything with this".

You don't need to be in court to see the issues with those posts.

And it's not gonna take more than 10 seconds to review your post and make sure that you aren't saying something you shouldn't say. So it's not such a hard job.
 
Hold on, EDL isn't really necessary to do what I said. There are many editors who haven't used EDL for a decade now. Maybe I'm confused but I'd ask for a second opinion on this.

The only time you wouldn't need an EDL is if you are sending to Color, it does an EDL behind the scenes and it's transparent to the user, to get the edit to a colorist you do need one EDL / XML.
 
The only time you wouldn't need an EDL is if you are sending to Color, it does an EDL behind the scenes and it's transparent to the user, to get the edit to a colorist you do need one EDL / XML.

And as far as I know FCP X does support XML, doesn't it?
 
It requires 10.6.7 because it requires the App Store ;).

No, it requires 10.6.7 because that's the minimum rev that has OS support for much of FCPX's function. It's been clearly stated that Lion will enable further functionality that can't currently be accessed.
 
Pretty amazing price points. But i just realised no more education discounts with the advent of this 'Everything through the App Store' malarkey

Effectively, everyone gets the old educational discount price.

Big win.
 
No, it requires 10.6.7 because that's the minimum rev that has OS support for much of FCPX's function. It's been clearly stated that Lion will enable further functionality that can't currently be accessed.

There hasn't been official word about Lion enabling more features. It was only a rumor.
 
I don't think I'm splitting hairs. If you have followed all the posts in this thread today, there were a lot of "this is not a professional app" "you can't do anything with this".

You don't need to be in court to see the issues with those posts.

And it's not gonna take more than 10 seconds to review your post and make sure that you aren't saying something you shouldn't say. So it's not such a hard job.

I think you are being too literal with the posts. I think when people are saying "you can't do anything with this" they are referring to its lack of advantages over FCP7 and therefore FCS3.

Some people are unable to justify a $300 price for a piece of software that for some aspects does less than the same software from a few years ago!

But I am optimistic that FCPX will turn into something really good with time!
 
Maybe if you worked with FCP you could understand why some of us have issues!

Which means that you're clearly not a customer for FCPX. Yet.

You can still use FCS, while you watch to see what improvements/capability come to FCPX in the coming weeks and months.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.