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Call me sad, but I decided to do a quick bit of analysis on BestBuy's website to see the state of FireWire on today's camcorders. The results were not pretty...

Bestbuy has five categories for camcorder: DVD, MiniDV, Hard drive, High Definition, and Flash. Some of these categories overlap and below I have made no allowances for this fact.

DVD
11 units listed. 9 had USB connections and amazingly 2 had no connectivity at all (must rely on the DVD). None of these had firewire.

MiniDV
9 Units listed. All but one of them had FireWire (8). One unit had FW and USB and one had USB only.

Hard Drive
22 Units listed. All cameras had USB and five included FW as well.

High Definition
32 Units listed. All but a $4000 pro camera had USB. The pro only had FW. 5 other cameras had both FW and USB.

Flash
51 Units listed. At this point I gave up. It was looking pretty dismal for FW and I figured that all Flash based cameras will be USB given the state of the market.

So totaling up, I have a 124 units (some of which are duplicated across the lists) but of that 124, 93% has USB connectivity versus only 15% with a FW option.

I still think it is incredibly bad of Apply to leave off a FW400 port from the Macbook because I am sure that there are still a lot of FW base older camcorders in peoples hands, but when you look at the current crop of camcorders available for sale today, it is apparent that FW has become increasingly irrelevant in the camcorder market.

I believe it is too soon for FW to be dropped. Yes the writing is on the wall, but I think apple should have waited another generation (or two) at least.

I'm pretty sure Apple new this information before hand ;)
 
So for everyone willing to buy, is it smarter to order online, or at the apple store (with no sales tax!)?

Which do ya'll think will be sooner?
 
I haven't read all the post, but my friends were going to upgrade their old iBooks and PowerBooks, but the only problem is that they are musicians and have Firewire based audio boxes. I guess they can still get the cheaper MacBook...

Why did Apple still include the Ethernet Port? I don't even know anyone with an Apple Notebook that actually uses it - everyone I know uses wireless....

Should've kept the one most people use instead - the FireWire...

There are still many people who do use ethernet. For example, while most colleges (mine included) have campus-wide wireless networks, some (like the one I just visited) do not. Most of the ones that do not also do not allow personal wireless routers, so ethernet is necessary. Also, I use ethernet anyway because my college's wired connection speed is second in the USA to only the Pentagon. :cool: Serioiusly, it's fast.
 
So for everyone willing to buy, is it smarter to order online, or at the apple store (with no sales tax!)?

Which do ya'll think will be sooner?
I went to the Apple store today after work and the guy said the MacBooks would be at the 5 Ave. store probably tomorrow and the MacBook Pros would probably arrive in 2 days.

On the site I think it said it would take 3-5 days for the MacBook Pro to ship.
 
cool. I'm going to Oregon tomorrow for a three day field trip. I'm gunna stop by the Apple store, get a student discount, and get no sales tax.

Can't wait.
 
What Processor is in this (Rev F) MBP?

I've spent over an hour reading through this bitchfest of a thread (I truly feel for all the MB folks - the lack of FW400 is a drag for all with equipment older than 6 months), but I still can not tell what processor is in this thing.
Is it Penryn again? What?
I'm actually even more confused than that after trying to find info on Intel's site. Is Penryn 45nm? 32nm is coming next year. didn't 45nm just get here?
Maybe none of these nanometers matter. I take it to mean cooler and longer running, as well as faster.
Is there a knowledgeable person here who can tell me what's up with the processor - now and in the near future.

I have a Penryn MBP, but my wife has a PowerBook which is eager to be replaced. Should I get her a used Penryn or a new model MBP?

Oh - one more question. Is the battery internal like the MBAir? Dog Forbid!
 
I'm pretty sure Apple new this information before hand ;)

Yes but I wanted to illustrate the point to all the people bemoaning (me one of them) the lack of firewire on a "consumer" laptop. Consumers don't have firewire sound decks and a lot probably do not have firewire external drives. For most consumers the only point they might use Firewire is with camcorders and as it is becoming apparent, this is becoming less of an issue.

Still, as some people have commented, this is not like dropping a floppy drive for which you can still get an adapter today. By dropping firewire for people like myself that have one (or more) FW based camcorders there is simply no other way to get that content into a MB anymore. An that is a dumb move by Apple.

Last November I got my first Apple product with the purchase of a Santa Rosa based MB. I needed FW any I wanted to use iLife for my video. The MB did this and was not too expensive. The MBP was way outside my price range. If the MB did not have FW I would have not bought it and probably would be suffering Vista today.

I wonder how many people Apple will lose by not have FW?
 
Sigh
If the macsheeps would just stop and think for a minute.

If sales on the new MB MBP do not go well, then Apple will drop their prices fast!

But I suppose most macsheeps are quite rich...sigh..something I'm not. :(
 
Firewire's not going anywhere anytime soon simply because it works very well. There's >100 different laptops available from NewEgg with Firewire.

Not to mention they're developing FW1600 and FW3200. Why continue developing a protocol if it's supposedly dead? Firewire is alive and well. There is no excuse for Apple not putting FW on the Macbook. They could've at least given us a replacement. eSATA, USB 3.0, something of a compromise.

Anyone also notice they stripped a 2nd FW port and 3rd USB on the Macbook Pro. They call this INNOVATION? The next level? Why does Apple keep giving us the middle finger? (no matte option icing on the cake. Ever heard of the big light called THE SUN?)

I said to people I would buy a new Macbook if it was Aluminum and had accelerated graphics. Apple gave me both, plus an LED Display! AWESOME!.......what......no Firewire? WHAT THE F***!

No Sale. Waiting for Macworld 2009 for Steve to go "OMG WE SCREWED UP, and add it like they did FW800 on the 2006 Macbook Pros.

I finally wanted a true all around upgrade from my 1.33ghz Powerbook 15". I am so disappointed with Apple right now. :mad::mad::mad:
 
Call me sad, but I decided to do a quick bit of analysis on BestBuy's website to see the state of FireWire on today's camcorders. The results were not pretty...

Bestbuy has five categories for camcorder: DVD, MiniDV, Hard drive, High Definition, and Flash. Some of these categories overlap and below I have made no allowances for this fact.

DVD
11 units listed. 9 had USB connections and amazingly 2 had no connectivity at all (must rely on the DVD). None of these had firewire.

MiniDV
9 Units listed. All but one of them had FireWire (8). One unit had FW and USB and one had USB only.

Hard Drive
22 Units listed. All cameras had USB and five included FW as well.

High Definition
32 Units listed. All but a $4000 pro camera had USB. The pro only had FW. 5 other cameras had both FW and USB.

Flash
51 Units listed. At this point I gave up. It was looking pretty dismal for FW and I figured that all Flash based cameras will be USB given the state of the market.

So totaling up, I have a 124 units (some of which are duplicated across the lists) but of that 124, 93% has USB connectivity versus only 15% with a FW option.

I still think it is incredibly bad of Apply to leave off a FW400 port from the Macbook because I am sure that there are still a lot of FW base older camcorders in peoples hands, but when you look at the current crop of camcorders available for sale today, it is apparent that FW has become increasingly irrelevant in the camcorder market.

I believe it is too soon for FW to be dropped. Yes the writing is on the wall, but I think apple should have waited another generation (or two) at least.

It has to do with the format.

USB = MPEG2
FireWire = DV

So, if you bought a new MacBook, how does Final Cut Express work? Do you hook up your USB Camcorder to it and import the files into FCE?
 
Not happy. Prices far too expensive, seems like Apple are trying to sell even less for the money.

I was hoping for a cheaper MB in the UK, not so. The old one was reduced from $1099 to $999, so you'd think they'd knock £50 off in the UK. But no, they charge £20 MORE for the same product. The cheek of it. I am not happy.

Same they are way to expensive in the Uk that put me off buying one because they are. Now out of my price range:(
 
I am also surprised that Apple did not offer a 500GB hard drive option.

If you look at the CTO options you can go from a 250GB to 320GB hard drive for $100 more (basically you are buying 70GB for $100).

That's a poor option.

On NewEgg you can buy one of two 500GB hard drives for $150 and get to keep the 250 from the MB (if you put it in an enclosure).
 
WOW :eek: That's Awesome! Congrats !

Care to share what these Emmy's were for specifically? :) please

Thank you. First, I should have made it clear that this was in the high school category, but they are awards presented by the National Academy of Television Arts and Sciences. They started a national award program for for high school broadcasting across the US about six years ago. We won for news stories, sports stories and in the short form documentary category. Some examples of stories we have won for: A story about a soldier in Iraq whose fuel truck was hit by an IED. We sent him a cheap miniDV camcorder and he sent us back some great footage and we did an interview with him and other soldiers. Another story was about wild horses being inhumanely slaughtered and being sold for human consumption in other countries. We were able to get some undercover footage from the slaughterhouse. As a part of that story we got an interview with a US congressman who has co-sponsored legislation to put an end to it. One of the sports stories we did was about a local one-legged wrestler who was undefeated in two years of competition and won a national championship. If you would be interested that story is on youtube. I could find the link so you could see a sample of what we do.
I push my students really hard to tell a story well and to make sure it's fact-checked, fair and balanced. I have them go after stories that they don't think they can do. And in the midst of that I try to teach them all the basics and beyond of effective video production.
 
Yes but I wanted to illustrate the point to all the people bemoaning (me one of them) the lack of firewire on a "consumer" laptop. Consumers don't have firewire sound decks and a lot probably do not have firewire external drives. For most consumers the only point they might use Firewire is with camcorders and as it is becoming apparent, this is becoming less of an issue.

Still, as some people have commented, this is not like dropping a floppy drive for which you can still get an adapter today. By dropping firewire for people like myself that have one (or more) FW based camcorders there is simply no other way to get that content into a MB anymore. An that is a dumb move by Apple.

Last November I got my first Apple product with the purchase of a Santa Rosa based MB. I needed FW any I wanted to use iLife for my video. The MB did this and was not too expensive. The MBP was way outside my price range. If the MB did not have FW I would have not bought it and probably would be suffering Vista today.

I wonder how many people Apple will lose by not have FW?

The problem with your first paragraph is the assumption that the MackBook is only capable of being a consumer laptop. In the past it has been used by many audio and video professionals and was a great laptop for students pursuing careers in these fields.

As you pointed out in your later paragraph, it met your need for video. And it would have forced you to something else had Firewire not been there. That's exactly what it will do to my students. I'm just thankful there are viable options that I can recommend to them without breaking their parents bank accounts.

Oh, and the list of cameras you gave: no one who is serious about editing video would ever knowingly buy a hard disk drive or a dvd camcorder. Those are for the moms and pops that pull them out and Christmans and birthdays and then make the relatives sit through hours of video of the floor and ceiling and make you feel like your riding the ocean in a hurricane. ;)
 
It has to do with the format.

USB = MPEG2
FireWire = DV

So, if you bought a new MacBook, how does Final Cut Express work? Do you hook up your USB Camcorder to it and import the files into FCE?

No can do, unless they have just recently added that functionality to FCE.
 
I'm not sticking it to Apple, nor would I want to. I work with Apple computers (and PC's too) everyday several hours a day for a living. But when they make products that can't be used in the way that I or my students need to use them, what would you suggest that I do? You can't wish the video into the computer, unless that was included in the specs, in which case I didn't see it! :)

If this is a real question then my suggestion would be to buy the Mac products that can be used in the way that you and your students need to use them. Mac sells many new products with the firewire port. Specifically, the brand new MacBook Pro.
 
I just realized if it may actually be possible for Apple to retrofit a FW jack into the side of the new Macbooks. Check this out.



Would it even be possible? YIKES! :eek:
 
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If this is a real question then my suggestion would be to buy the Mac products that can be used in the way that you and your students need to use them. Mac sells many new products with the firewire port. Specifically, the brand new MacBook Pro.

I have addressed this several times in this thread. These are high school students. The MacBooks are a real stretch of their family budget. I have never had a parent that would spring for an MBP. Nor could I in good conscience ask them to when there is a viable alternative. A PC laptop with similar or better specs at a competing or lower price than the MB that can run CS3. I use an Asus daily that is very reliable, had same processor and greater ram specs than the MBP at the time that I bought it. Also, larger hard drive, HDMI, more USB ports and an eSATA port and was $700 less than the MBP even with my educational discount (which they have also reduced).

This is not my preference, but I will have little choice. With finances being tighter it will be harder to sell parents on getting their students a laptop at any price, let alone at the MBP prices.
 
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