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No, you are caught up in the same misconception as many people are. Understand this, just because the specs match don't mean that the parts are the same. Example, Dell can charge $600 for a notebook PC with a 2.4Ghz, 320GB HDD, DVD+R, web cam and wireless N.
Apple can charge $1599 for the same thing. Why would anyone get the Apple when Dell can do it all?
This is where many people get confused, you are only comparing the "specs". If that's the case you can do this with just about any car.
It's a very good chance that Dell is using cheap parts in their computer judging from the quality control. Example, you can get cheap ram with the same specs as the higher end ram but it freezes your computer or you can spend more for quality ram that last.
Not one person here has proven that Apple uses the exact same make and model of parts for their Macs as Dell uses for their machines that are half the price. Yes, the processors are Intel but many of the cheaper Dells use the slower system bus and the DDR2 ram. All Apple's machines use DDR3 with 1Ghz bus.

This seems to be a fallacy in the mac community, I would agree that to some extent macs do sometimes use better components, and are often better designed, but as you say no one has proved that the different manufacturers use the same (or different) parts, and you also say "it's a very good chance that Dell is using cheap parts in their computer", but again there's no way of proving that.

The biggest parts of these computers will use the same off the shelf components, HD, Optical drives, CPU and GPU and RAM (sometimes varying in quality). There may be differences in chipsets, but as I stated earlier Apple has been just as guilty of using lower grade components in the past to cut costs, or outright faulty components (think Nvidia GPUs).

Before the intel switch it was a lot easier to argue the case that Apple used better components, because there was no real comparisons that could be made, but those comparisons are easy to spot now, and all too often just making blanket statements like other manufacturers use lesser components is untrue.

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No matter what happens with the mac, as long as the iPhone farts people will be happy :)
 
New line of computers from Apple Inc.?
But I thought Apple Inc. morphed into a iToys and stuff company years ago ...:confused:
 
With the release of the Ion platform (atom cpu + 9400m nvidia) cheap netbooks and nettops will have the same graphical power like iMacs which cost 1499$.

Apple doesn't do cheap, even when they do cheap.
 
You had me until here.

Dell is buying from the same vendors as Apple but bad components?

Question...(and this is because I don't know, not because I want to argue the point).

Isn't the draw to apple due to the fact that the hardware they use is TESTED and CERTIFIED against OS X? What I mean is, do they not build the computer and the OS together to run at max efficiency? Whereas with a Windows machine, there are drivers for everything but they are not specifically tailored to the hardware, and may be generic (meaning a company like Dell doesn't build a machine and tailor it with windows in mind).

Pardon my ignorance, this is just what I've heard. I'm relying on the mac guys to fill me in...
 
I bought a top of the line 24" iMac almost three years ago (white exterior). It has a 2.66 C2D, 2gb ram, 256mb video, 640gb HD and it cost me around 2600 CDN + taxes, if I recall correctly. At that time, it was reviewed as one of the fastest home computers currently available from a mainstream supplier. Even PC magazines raved about it as being the fastest Windows PC via Boot Camp.

So today nearly three years later, $2600 gets me 0.4mhz on the same C2D, 2gb more ram, 256mb more video ram. 400gb more HD.

This isn't so bad for someone who *needs* a new computer and wants the iMac form factor. It's not all gloom and doom. These iMacs will serve most people just fine.

However, the current iMac specs are not even close to being competetive with the fastest home computers.

There is hope. I fully expect Apple to release more powerful iMacs complete with 4 core processors at the same time as Snow Leopard. If SL is all about performance and 64bit, then Apple has to provide quads to take advantage of it. I think they just needed more time to work out the design since the quads came out fairly recently.

I had hoped that this refresh would give me a reason to upgrade. I've gotten over my disappointment now :) and I can look forward to better things to come.
 
Question...(and this is because I don't know, not because I want to argue the point).

Isn't the draw to apple due to the fact that the hardware they use is TESTED and CERTIFIED against OS X? What I mean is, do they not build the computer and the OS together to run at max efficiency? Whereas with a Windows machine, there are drivers for everything but they are not specifically tailored to the hardware, and may be generic (meaning a company like Dell doesn't build a machine and tailor it with windows in mind).

Pardon my ignorance, this is just what I've heard. I'm relying on the mac guys to fill me in...

You're right. And if you erroneously put a bad driver (which is not uncommon):

bsod.jpg

bsod_2.gif

BSOD-0p6b.png

bsod-full.png

Bsod_nt.jpg

bsod.gif


That doesn't happen with Macs.
 
Question...(and this is because I don't know, not because I want to argue the point).

Isn't the draw to apple due to the fact that the hardware they use is TESTED and CERTIFIED against OS X? What I mean is, do they not build the computer and the OS together to run at max efficiency? Whereas with a Windows machine, there are drivers for everything but they are not specifically tailored to the hardware, and may be generic (meaning a company like Dell doesn't build a machine and tailor it with windows in mind).

Pardon my ignorance, this is just what I've heard. I'm relying on the mac guys to fill me in...
Buy enough Macs and you'll see all the vendors in there. Pioneer, Matsushita, Sony, Samsung, LG, Hynix, Western Digital, Maxtor, and Seagate just to name a few.

You can run a 8800GTS/9800GTX just fine on OS X and Apple never sold it.

You're right. And if you erroneously put a bad driver (which is not uncommon):

That doesn't happen with Macs.
Time for a kernel panic or color wheel of doom? Try again. Welcome to 9x.
 
You're right. And if you erroneously put a bad driver (which is not uncommon):

That doesn't happen with Macs.

instead, macs either freeze up without a warning, restart (again without warning), or the wheel keeps spinning without ever stopping.
 
Question...(and this is because I don't know, not because I want to argue the point).

Isn't the draw to apple due to the fact that the hardware they use is TESTED and CERTIFIED against OS X? What I mean is, do they not build the computer and the OS together to run at max efficiency? Whereas with a Windows machine, there are drivers for everything but they are not specifically tailored to the hardware, and may be generic (meaning a company like Dell doesn't build a machine and tailor it with windows in mind).

Pardon my ignorance, this is just what I've heard. I'm relying on the mac guys to fill me in...

I'd think that's more of an OS issue, but it is true that if you don't know what you're doing when building a PC, you could get a bunch of perfectly good components and they may not play well together. I think that people who build their own PCs do use a little VooDoo from time to time. But even on a mac some of the hardware when released doesn't have solid drivers, look at how motion performs better with some cheaper ATI GPUs compared to some of the more expensive and faster Nvidia GPUs.

instead, macs either freeze up without a warning, restart (again without warning), or the wheel keeps spinning without ever stopping.

I always liked the little bomb that would randomly appear back in the OS 9 days, I miss that (not really).

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No matter what happens with the mac, as long as the iPhone farts people will be happy :)
 
Yes, but its a hack. And a hack of a poor quality machine and parts. good luck.

Previous Generation Mac Pro
CPU: Intel Xeon 5400 Series
Chipset: Intel 5400 (Seaburg)
Memory: DDR2 ECC FB-DIMMs
Graphics: Nvidia GeForce 8800 GT (aka GeForce 9600 GT aka GT130)

My Hack
CPU: Intel Xeon 5400 Series
Chipset: Intel 5400 (Seaburg)
Memory: DDR2 ECC FB-DIMMs
Graphics: Nvidia GeForce 9600 GT (aka GeForce 8800 GT aka GT130)


All these components come out the same damn factories in China and Taiwan. There is no difference whatsoever with the quality of the components.
 
Thanks for the replies guys, just curious what you all thought.

And to the person who said voodoo is used when building PC's, you are absolutely correct. It's always an adventure even when using some awesome parts and knowing what you're doing, you sometimes have to MAKE it work, or get lucky.
 
beachball

instead, macs either freeze up without a warning, restart (again without warning), or the wheel keeps spinning without ever stopping.


Really? your whole mac freezes? Restart without warning? I've never heard of such a thing in a decade of Mac use. The great part about Macs is if one app freezes it doesn't take down the OS with it. Just force quit the app, nothing else affected. That's my experience. The only time a Mac has ever restarted arbitrarily is when I didn't have the power cord plugged in all the way. You might want to check your connection.
 
Really? your whole mac freezes? Restart without warning? I've never heard of such a thing in a decade of Mac use. The great part about Macs is if one app freezes it doesn't take down the OS with it. Just force quit the app, nothing else affected. That's my experience. The only time a Mac has ever restarted arbitrarily is when I didn't have the power cord plugged in all the way. You might want to check your connection.

Believe it or not it can happen, my current macbook used to have a kernel panic whenever you inserted a DVD, and I wasn't alone, I had a friend with the same issue, and looking at the apple forums at the time it was happening to a few people. Imagine that, having a DVD drive but not being able to watch a DVD! Fixed now though thank god.

It's rare that my machines do crash, but sometimes Digidesigns dodgy drivers do play havoc, as can other drivers.

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No matter what happens with the mac, as long as the iPhone farts people will be happy :)
 
Next year.
And they'll still probably have dual cores…

Well, Apple have now killed the Mac Mini in New Zealand.

The 320Gb Mac Mini is the exact same price as the white Macbook.
FAIL

There is hope. I fully expect Apple to release more powerful iMacs complete with 4 core processors at the same time as Snow Leopard. If SL is all about performance and 64bit, then Apple has to provide quads to take advantage of it.
They don't need to use quads, single-cores and dual-cores will work fine with Snow Leopard. And I don't think we'll see quad-core iMacs until 2011.

I think they just needed more time to work out the design since the quads came out fairly recently.
65 W desktop quads came out late last year and mobile quads even earlier. Isn't that enough time?

Really? your whole mac freezes? Restart without warning? I've never heard of such a thing in a decade of Mac use. The great part about Macs is if one app freezes it doesn't take down the OS with it. Just force quit the app, nothing else affected. That's my experience.
Happened to me probably more than once. An app freezes so badly everything else does too.
 
What a CEO is supposed to do

I think you might be a bit on the "Steve is the end all for CEO's" club. In the last 5 years what has Steve announced that was soooo innovative and revolutionary.

In 5 years there's been 2 products:
iPhone
Macbook Air

Granted they still offer plethora of products better than anyone else but in terms of topping themselves its only 2 products. Steve brings out the fun and flair on stage but ultimately the only people that see the keynotes are geeks and Mac fans which represents a small portion of Apple's customers. Apple will sell a lot of computers without Steve's intervention.

Check Apple's stock price, then some of the other PC stock prices.
 
You had me until here.

Dell is buying from the same vendors as Apple but bad components?

Can you show some proof of this? Do you have anything that shows where Dell and Apple buy their parts? Also it's not so much about the same vendors, it's about what they are buying from the vendors. The same vendor can offer two versions of a product. Example, they can have a 250GB 5400rpm 8mb cache for $60, then that same vendor can sell a better quality version of it for $100.
 
Wtf?

Why the hell, all the apple line is somewhat based on an exchange rate except for the mini?

Mac US Store Vs Mac PT Store
 

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Why the hell, all the apple line is somewhat based on an exchange rate except for the mini?

Mac US Store Vs Mac PT Store

Proof, as if we needed it, that Apple's pricing policies are nothing to do with exchange rates and everything to do with ripping people off.
 
Really? your whole mac freezes? Restart without warning? I've never heard of such a thing in a decade of Mac use. The great part about Macs is if one app freezes it doesn't take down the OS with it. Just force quit the app, nothing else affected. That's my experience. The only time a Mac has ever restarted arbitrarily is when I didn't have the power cord plugged in all the way. You might want to check your connection.

I've had half dozen occasions when the entire machine is unresponsive...you can't even get to a 'force quit' and the only time a HD died on me was with a mini.

I went back to Windows and to be honest you can do more. I don't look back or regret I just count the change.

Anyone with a clue about tech in general (i.e. people in this kind of forum) can keep a windows pc as stable as anything that Apple have produced.

thinking differently is just falling for the hype. It still is a windows world and with hardware offerings like these by Apple..that will never change.

I could never advise anyone to buy an Apple product, including an ipod. Just not enough substance for the cash.
 
You're a funny guy ya know. ;) You selectively reply to my posts that you have an answer for but you ignore the ones like on post #1235.
It's a dead end for both of us. Do you really want to spend that time fighting it out and the research?

I have better things to do than INTERNET SERIOUS BUSINESS.
 
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