The difference in price for the MacBooks is big too.
US - starting at $999
Canada - starting at $1149
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Apple Announces New MacBook Pros, Updates MacBook Air
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The difference in price for the MacBooks is big too.
US - starting at $999
Canada - starting at $1149
Sorry to sidestep into this one, but He's a professional photographer for christ's sake - how is a 40lb MacPro going to help him shoot tethered on location, or in a remote studio?
He's also previously stated that a platform switch isn't an option given the ubiquitous prevalence of Macs among professional photograpers - beyond interoperability problems, as a professional charging steep rates, you need to take into account the gear that your peers and clients expect you to have. Showing up with a hackintosh would be tantamount to showing up at work covered in rotting banana peels and teabags because you slept in the dumpster to save a few bucks.
Have one bloody look at Brad's photography. Take a few minutes to google him and have a look at the calibre of work he produces... and then evaluate whether or not you're qualified to make sweeping statements about his needs in a machine.
Maybe you armchair technologists *ahemApologists* should leave a professional assessment about what options a professional notebook should have to the ***gasp*** professionals. What. A. Concept.
You just don't seem to get it do you? The port connection to the 800 bus for the 400 port is INTERNAL. Did you seriously think someone meant Apple had a dongle cable converter hanging out the side? The point is internally, the 400 port is actually connected to the 800 bus. It simply uses the 400 connector so you don't have to go buy an adapter. IMO, if the makers of Firewire had half a brain to begin with, they never would have made a DIFFERENT connector in the the first place. It's caused all kinds of pointless issues and expensive cable adapters to something that should have been the same connector (like FW3200 will be to FW800 and what USB 2.0 is to USB 1.0). If it's electrically backwards compatible, there's NO REASON for them to have used a different shaped connector.
So while you may THINK your MBP has two entirely separate dedicated Firewire ports, in reality it does NOT. They are both on the same Firewire 800 internal bus. They are simply two ports, one the 800 shape and one the 400 shape. And so the new model MBP with a 800/400 combo hub wouldn't be functionally different.
Now if you already have a recent MBP, why are you so upset about the new one? Only a rich person or a fool would upgrade to a newer laptop for a 10% speed bump some six months after he bought the previous one. And anyone that could AFFORD to do that could certainly afford a dedicated expansion card to get a truly separate FW 400 port if they needed it that badly.
As for your screaming, you come across like a 14 year old. I personally doubt any of your professional claims. Professionals don't rant and rave about a port on a laptop that shouldn't even be relevant to them if they own a 2008 MBP already.
I just got back from playing with the new portables at the local Apple Store.
The one button trackpad works beautifully & generally, these are lovely machines. I don't like the new power button (too small, cheap looking), the black hinge or the large black bezel that cuts into potential screen space - but these are small issues.
The big one with the MBP is, of course, that glossy screen. I looked at both the MBP and the MB to try and work out whether I could live with either for different types of work and to see how a 3rd party anti-glare filter might fit. My conclusion is that the screens on both are too distracting to work on for any long period of time. I write a lot & I certainly wouldn't want to spend hours filtering out extraneous visual information while thinking and typing. Also, I think any anti-glare screen will look like hell and possibly stop the things closing properly.
Over at MacWorld and a couple of other places there's a big ding dong going off about the lack of matte options. Many of us might be feeling like it's our problem, but by now I'd imagine Apple are realising it's their problem too.
Matte options for the MBPs and top level MB don't seem a massive trade-off for a six figure + market that's currently digging its heels in and refusing to part with the readies.
The one button trackpad works beautifully & generally, these are lovely machines. I don't like the new power button (too small, cheap looking), the black hinge or the large black bezel that cuts into potential screen space - but these are small issues.
The big one with the MBP is, of course, that glossy screen. I looked at both the MBP and the MB to try and work out whether I could live with either for different types of work and to see how a 3rd party anti-glare filter might fit. My conclusion is that the screens on both are too distracting to work on for any long period of time. I write a lot & I certainly wouldn't want to spend hours filtering out extraneous visual information while thinking and typing. Also, I think any anti-glare screen will look like hell and possibly stop the things closing properly.
Over at MacWorld and a couple of other places there's a big ding dong going off about the lack of matte options. Many of us might be feeling like it's our problem, but by now I'd imagine Apple are realising it's their problem too.
Matte options for the MBPs and top level MB don't seem a massive trade-off for a six figure + market that's currently digging its heels in and refusing to part with the readies.
Your insults only prove your are NOT a professional. You didn't read the rest of the thread before you went of half cocked (I was not paying close attention to what equipment he was using and glossed over it; but it's irrelevant to your inappropriate and unprofessional behavior) and your apparent slave to peer pressure that tells me you are better suited to the fashion industry or even junior high school than photography. It's the results that count, not the equipment used to get the results. You've never seen my photography work, so I wouldn't assume anything else about me before you go throwing words like "retard" around either. Frankly, if you two are supposed to be 'professionals', you must redefine the word with your insults and crying fits. If he can't or won't switch platforms and won't buy the hardware from the current platform that he implies he NEEDS and he simply CANNOT use a Hackintosh because his peers would laugh at him and that would make him feel bad and need psychological counseling for his tiny male ego, what do you suggest? Go knock on Steve Jobs' door and cry until he custom orders you the Mac YOU wanted? Give me a break. My suggestions are retarded? Your post isn't helpful in any single way.
What the hell? Were you looking for a freaking laundry list? I personally own both the M-Audio FW 410, and the Apogee duet. I'm on the verge of dumping both for a MOTU 828 (FW, since I've used both the FW and USB implementation, and I'm sorry, but I needed to use way higher buffer sizes on the USB mk2 in order to get it to stop glitching - and bigger buffers = bigger latency = crappy).
I've also used both the RME Fireface800 and the protools digi003, as well as a host of the other stuff beyond the fw410 that m-audio makes, including the digidesign compatible m-box pro (both the usb and fw versions).
The fact that the ratio of even pro-sumer grade recording interfaces produced by these companies is somewhere in the neighborhood of 6-1 in favour of firewire isn't some random coincidence - it's because USB is shoddy for much beyond 2 or 4 channels of sound, and you're dealing with latency and reliability issues beyond that.
Gee, you don't say? They're trying to push us towards the MBP? Obviously that's precisesly what people are pissed off about - they took a completely viable, and highly desirable smaller machine that would have been GREAT for live recording, and crippled it intentionally in order to take all of the poor suckers that fell for Apple's media-creator marketing pitch over the last 3 years (and who bought some half-decent hardware and software), and force them up-market on their next upgrade, rather than retaining a nice, accessible place for them to be. It's a crappy bait-and-switch move, and people are justifiably annoyed.
Of course you only see one problem - that's because you're more interested in starting a pissing contest than trying to empathize with other people that are being shafted (either in a big way or small, depending on your situation), by yesterday's dropped features.
Do what others have suggested...visit my website, then tell me I'm not, A.) Who I say I am and that I likely have the professional credentials to talk about how certain photography equipment works in a 'real world' environment, and B.) That I have the right to be concerned when Apple makes arbitrary moves in deciding what is and is not essential in the 'real world' I find myself doing business in!
As for your other completely off-the-mark claim that I'd have to be either rich or foolish to 'upgrade'...Bzzzzt!!! Wrong again!!! As a 'professional', I don't leave the building without TWO laptops! I have a MBP and a G4 as backup....the G4 is simply too old to use with the newer capture software I am now using so I must buy another current laptop. And for your information, once I buy the new laptop my studio will have 3 G5 dual processor units, a Mac Pro 3.2GHz Quad-Core, 2 G4 Powerbooks, the previously mentioned 2008 Edition MBP (Core 2 Duo 2.5GHz) in addition to the newest MBP. I'm not including the two G4 towers we use as print servers 'cuv they're just too old to count for much, but I think with that much hardware taking up real estate in my studio I have earned to the right to talk about what's important to me, in my business!
I'm pretty sure I'm done with you, so if I don't reply further, please understand it's nuthin' personal...I visit this forum for the information I need to run my business and since what we seem to have going on right now is nothing more than a pissin' contest, you have nothing more I need to hear.
BT in NYC
http://www.bradtrent.com
Lack of matte screen option on MBP seems like a bit of a mistake.
Apple had maintained the matte option on their professional products for some years, alongside the glossy option. There was a good reason for doing that. But now they've suddenly removed that option, and it's not clear what they think has changed in order to justify this change.
Are the new screens really less reflective than the old glossy screens? It doesn't seem like it. So they must figure that either (1) their professional users (designers, etc) don't care about reflections any more or (2) they don't care about their professional customers anymore or (3) they think they know better than their professional customers, and if they force them to use a glossy screen, these users will come around to liking it.
Of course it is cheaper for them to manufacture with glossy only, so I guess that is their motivation?
Anyway, I'm forced to use a recent iMac with glossy screen at work, in an open plan office, and it is fairly distracting. I see reflections all the time. I don't find myself being converted at all, after using it for 3 months.
Apple had maintained the matte option on their professional products for some years, alongside the glossy option. There was a good reason for doing that. But now they've suddenly removed that option, and it's not clear what they think has changed in order to justify this change.
Are the new screens really less reflective than the old glossy screens? It doesn't seem like it. So they must figure that either (1) their professional users (designers, etc) don't care about reflections any more or (2) they don't care about their professional customers anymore or (3) they think they know better than their professional customers, and if they force them to use a glossy screen, these users will come around to liking it.
Of course it is cheaper for them to manufacture with glossy only, so I guess that is their motivation?
Anyway, I'm forced to use a recent iMac with glossy screen at work, in an open plan office, and it is fairly distracting. I see reflections all the time. I don't find myself being converted at all, after using it for 3 months.
Yeah, this is getting damned tiring, for the Love of Pete and for the last time, FW 800 spec encompasses the FW 400 spec.
One can use any FW 400 device over the FW 800 port, all you need is the cable with the right ends. My god people read and do some research.
FW 400 6 pin ports are dead on the MBP (industry wide really), since the FW 800 port and spec encompasses the FW 400 spec. Read the posts people
The FW 800 port is all you need
Just another thing,
To see several long typed Rants about the lack of FW400 ports, It is Not an Issue.
Unless you want "several" FW ports on a laptop, not sure that is realistic or really even necessary.
You're correct - I'm not a professional photographer. I'm a professional graphic designer, motion designer and IA, and have been involved in audio recording in both a professional and hobbyist capacity. And I wouldn't be so presumptuous as to tell a professional photographer what he needs out of his gear. You, on the other hand, seem perfectly comfortable with doing that, so go bananas.
What? My professional behaviour? You get to make comments about my professionalism when you start paying me. Until then, you're just another loudmouth on a forum, and I can say whatever I like to you.
For your information, I read the entire thread - my response was quite deliberate, because I'm a bit fed up with all of the 'suck it up' comments that have been coming through with regards to people's dissapointments with the new notebook. Unfortunately, even if we're not upgrading to the new machines immediately, the stuff that gets released now is often the barometer of what's going to be around in 2 years, so concern is perfectly justifiable. Even worse, some of us don't have a choice but to upgrade immediately.
Um, you suggested that a photographer ditch his laptop for a MAC PRO!!! Any way you slice it, that suggestion was retarded. 'Nuff said.
I'm not even sure what you're babbling on about here... it's not about ego, for god's sake - having the 'right gear' is often a prerequisite in professional photography (and other professions). It has nothing to do with talent, ego, or anything else - it has to do with making money, and sadly sometimes that means using gear of a perceived caliber even if you'd rather be using something different.
Just thought I'd throw this in here:
An FW-port on an Apple Laptop does not provide 24-25 volts. It provides 11-12 volts. Which is still a helluva lot more than the two 5V usb port, one of which is having loads of trouble running even a simple 2.5" drive and quite a few card readers.
An FW-port on an Apple Laptop does not provide 24-25 volts. It provides 11-12 volts. Which is still a helluva lot more than the two 5V usb port, one of which is having loads of trouble running even a simple 2.5" drive and quite a few card readers.
Brad, great work! Amazing what kind of absolutely top artists you can see here
Don't pay attention to the lowest crowd of fanboys, please
You're better than that.
I'm a photographer as well and after yesterday's announcement I quickly placed an order for an "old"
MBP 2.5GHz matte. They are still available everywhere
and the price is $1800 - $150 rebate.
I advise you to do the same. My MBP is perfectly fine,
but I want to be sure I will have something to use when
it breaks down...
Keep doing your great work!
Andrew
http://www.takenfaraway.com/
Seriously... read first...
Looking at the new case design... the arrangement of the internals has obviously caused compromise in terms of ports. What was needed was two Firewire busses period. High end devices require high end data flow. The cost of True dual firewire on a "Pro" machine cant be that significant. using a 40+ mega pixel camera back or a DV Cam, or a IO like the AJA ioHD, while at the same time being able to utilise a decent external storage device or other, is not a BIG ask. Bandwidth requirements are growing not diminishing.
This looks more like a "fore the sake of case aesthetics issue" than a Marketing, technical, or cost decision.
If Apple wants to make there flagship models Pro unfriendly than I think that will ultimately harm there ability to justify prices and statements of quality due to being "Pro". what next? a laptop that isn't actually a computer but has a gold apple logo, holds two lipsticks, mascara, and looks great with a chiffon blouse?
The new integrated 9400 nVidia card in the MBP is 5x faster, and that is not counting the dedicated 9600 card.
The Intel GMA 950 sucks rather badly in light of this.
How can a graphics card affect pro audio video guys, It will and soon.
Snow Leopard and Open CL will use the power of these cards not only for video effects but for audio as well, and video transcoding, etc.
50 plus Gigaflops, 120 plus gigaflops, I am seeing something like this:
In the audio world, no need for say Universal Audio's hardware DSP cards, all done with Open CL on the nVidia chip
For video, in Compressor for example, instead of a H.264 1 hour video taking 3 hours to encode, how about 20 minutes.
the nVidia card with Open CL in Snow Leop can do trillions of calcs versus billions per second
This is where this is going, so if you do audio video, and you need effects , transcoding power I would stay away from the old MacBook
we are all calling the macbook pro over priced well check this out http://www.shopping.hp.com/webapp/shopping/cto.do for a maxed out hp we pay $3246.99 for a maxed out mac we pay $3299
there are some minor differences such as the SSD or the 640 GB HD or the ram on the hp is lower but overall the mac is cheaper
i maxed out the software because most of the software comes standard on a mac
i know we all know this but i wanted to give somebody a reminder that the mac book pro is where it should be
and no one scream about FW 400 or blue ray i know
there are some minor differences such as the SSD or the 640 GB HD or the ram on the hp is lower but overall the mac is cheaper
i maxed out the software because most of the software comes standard on a mac
i know we all know this but i wanted to give somebody a reminder that the mac book pro is where it should be
and no one scream about FW 400 or blue ray i know
i also see snow lepard making the duel GPU more effective and easier to control (ie without having to log out) and being able to be smart as to when to use one or the other
I guess you MISSED where this guy was ranting and raving about his poor missing firewire port. If he's not on here asking for alternatives to solve his problem then he is just ranting. So what's your point. People aren't supposed to discuss his problem?
If you're going to call people retards, I think the moderators will disagree that you can say whatever you want. You agreed to CIVIL behavior when you joined these forums and I haven't been seeing it from either one of you. People try to help someone and they get insulted for their trouble. A professional of ANY kind would just ignore unhelpful advice, not shoot off their mouth and insult people because it makes them feel better about their own miserable life.
IF you had read the entire thread, THEN you would have seen where I said I glossed over WHAT he was using Firewire for (I was under the initial impression it was EDITING equipment and therefore a Mac Pro is NOT an unreasonable suggestion when the Laptops you want to buy do NOT have (by your own admission) the HARDWARE you NEED. Furthermore, both of you have made it CLEAR that moving to Windows is NOT an option and so you *HAVE* to have a Macintosh. Guess what? There's only so many models to pick from! If you don't like ANY of them, I guess you're either up the creek without a paddle OR you will HAVE to consider a Hackintosh because there are no other options save buying the previous model while you can still get them (which is a GOOD idea for this individual if he needs a 2nd laptop) or buy a used one with what he needs. I've suggested all of these things. For my trouble, I get called a 'jackass' from the person in question and 'retarded' by you. How I'm supposed to think EITHER of you is a "professional" at anything is beyond me. Professional means professional behavior and you two are anything but professionally behaved. And all of this over the fact the new MBP only has ONE Firewire 800 port when a simple Firewire HUB would solve the problem. But no no no. This guy THINKS the previous MBP is using a separate Firewire 400 port from the 800 one when in fact they are the same bus/port, just different connectors. Has he tried the new model with a hub? No. He doesn't WANT to. He wants to complain loudly and yell at people instead. Does he want to buy a previous generation MBP while they're on sale for around $1440 from Amazon? No. He wants to complain the brand new ones don't have two ports on the side and he doesn't want to use a hub. And when people make suggestions, both he and you start insulting those people. I wouldn't hire either one of you in a million years with that attitude.
Then buy the previous MBP model immediately while it's on sale! Geeze. It's what I did. I just sent my order in an hour ago and will get it on Friday. But I'm a jackass retard, so don't do what I did.... Sheesh.
It's not retarded if I was under the impression at the time that he was using editing equipment, not photography equipment. I can't change the fact I was glossing over his post, but if you want to drive this home for all eternity, I guess you can.
But to you, the 'right' gear is the gear your peers THINK you should have rather than the gear you NEED to get the job done. Furthermore, there are many many many levels and different areas of professional photography and they don't all require the same types of equipment. I shot with film for many years and Photoshop on the Mac is pretty much the same as on the PC. It works with professional level digital cameras too. Now I don't know or care what software this guy is using, but I cerrtainly didn't assume right from the start that a PC was/is out of the question. Hackintoshes are quite stable with the right hardware so don't give me some BS that it has to have an Apple logo on it to be 'proper'. That's Mac fanboy behavior, not professional behavior. If you don't trust one, that's one thing. But this guy can't even figure out on his own to buy the old MBP *now* while he still can without someone apparently telling him. Or was he only ever hear to RANT and RAVE about Apple not selling him the MB or MBP in a configuration that he wants? In that case, I couldn't care less.
The quote you were referring to is talking about where I said I just bought the previous model Macbook PRO for $1440 from Amazon, not the regular Macbook. It has an Nvidia 8600M GT in it, which is only 10-15% slower at best than the new MBP. I'm saying why buy a Macbook for $1400 when you can have a Macbook Pro for $1440?
Actually, I've been quite civil - I don't think that calling a patently absurd suggestion 'retarded' is tantamount to directly or wantonly calling you names. You posted a dumb suggestion, I called you on it, c'est la vie. Don't take it so personally, champ.
Hackintosh isn't an option. I don't think that this even warrants discussion.
As for the previous model, it has been thoroughly documented that they've got bad GPUs. Every individual gets to assess whether or not that's a risk they'd like to take, but I'd wager that a lot of people relying on their machines are going to play it safe and give it a pass.
Once again, for my part, I called your suggestion retarded, not you. Semantics, maybe, but I bear you no ill will, so don't get so excited. Your suggestion was just one more of the dismissive statements that a bunch of us have been encountering around here with regards to our complaints, especially given how utterly inapplicable, impractical, and prescriptive it was.
It's a discussion forum - that means that we get to disagree with your opinions and assertions, especially if they're half-cocked and 'glossed over' as you put it.
Last time I checked, "professional" meant "gets paid to do work", not "ignore and don't engage in discussions with people who make strange suggestions on inherently inflammatory internet forums", but I'll take it under advisement that the definition has been changed.
Dear me... it's an awfully good thing, then, that I'm not job hunting... on MacForums... *phew*
Tell Apple instead
No reason whining about here, is it?
I encourage everone to complain here:
http://discussions.apple.com/forum.jspa?forumID=1294&start=0
And here:
http://www.apple.com/feedback/macbookpro.html
No reason whining about here, is it?
I encourage everone to complain here:
http://discussions.apple.com/forum.jspa?forumID=1294&start=0
And here:
http://www.apple.com/feedback/macbookpro.html
Absolutely. Some of us have already sent complaints through to both forms. Everyone who's dissatisfied should do the same - it can't hurt to try!