Apple Announces The iPhone

[Misplaced Mage]

Is it legal for Steve to make calls with it in a public place if it doesn't have FCC approval? I would have thought they'd have to restrict its use to within RF-shielded test facilities.

FCC qualification is near the end of an iterative development process, and has to be done with near-production units. It's acceptable, and in fact necessary to go "live" earlier on a cell network with limited numbers of prototypes for testing purposes in order to find and debug network interoperability issues. But it's not like you're going on the air with a phone that has little or no output RF power control, or emitting large amounts of spurious RF noise, either, like the initial prototypes are wont to.

 

[illegalprelude]

are people really discussing the fact if the call he made was legal or not?

"omg, I saw Steve Jobs J-walk!" Call the feds!

 

[digitalbiker]

I am pretty confused right now...

Some are saying that Apple will offer the iPhone unlocked for a higher price. If this ends up being true, I will pop in my T-Mobile SIM Card.

My question is about EDGE. Do I pay some sort of data plan through T-Mobile? How do I get access to EDGE?

No, it was clearly stated that the iPhone would only be availble through Cingular or Apple with a 2 year service contract from Cingular.

Steve made it extremely clear how Cingular was working directly with Apple for some of the features to work.

However they also announced that the iPhone would go international in late 2007 and Asia in 2008. So maybe at that time Apple would sell an unlocked GSM phone that might work with T-Mobile.

Otherwise, it sounds like the only thing you could do is Buy the phone through Apple with the minimum Cingular plan. Pay Cingular the contract buy-out fee (around $200.00 I think), Have them unlock your phone (required now by US law if requested). Pop in your T-Mobile sim.

It should work, it would be expensive and it wouldn't have all of the features (such as random voice mail access).

EDGE is only available through Cingular. But trust me your not really giving up much here. This is nowhere near as fast as WiFi or Sprints/Nextels broadband.

 

[balamw]

These will sell like hot cakes. Millions of people are going to buy one.

To be precise, from the keynote, it seems like Apple is counting on 10 Million people buying one of these in its first 12 months, which adds up to roughly twice the total number of Macs sold worldwide in a year and would contribute half the total revenue that all Macs do to the company. This assumes the only source of revenue being the hardware itself, but when you add in accessories, licensing deals with operators, etc... it adds up to a LOT of cash.

Face it, sales of desktop computers are ever shrinking. Portables are where the growth is, and what's more portable than a mobile phone? This is part of skating to where the puck will be. As the line between consumer electronics and computers blurs further we'll see Apple expanding more into other CE markets as well.

It's a huge gamble, but one that Apple is in a unique position to make right now, as they have enough cash on hand to eat every single one of those iPhones at retail price and still have lots of cash in the bank.

FWIW I too am on the fence, but have not ruled out buying one.

B

It's acceptable, and in fact necessary to go "live" earlier on a cell network with limited numbers of prototypes for testing purposes in order to find and debug network interoperability issues. But it's not like you're going on the air with a phone that has little or no output RF power control, or emitting large amounts of spurious RF noise, either, like the initial prototypes are wont to.

The FCC has a process for granting experimental licenses, which allow you to use unlicensed devices, even on licensed frequencies as long as you tell them where and when you will be doing so.

B

 

[The Scotsman]

Are the figures realistic

To be precise, from the keynote, it seems like Apple is counting on 10 Million people buying one of these in its first 12 months, which adds up to roughly twice the total number of Macs sold worldwide in a year and would contribute half the total revenue that all Macs do to the company. This assumes the only source of revenue being the hardware itself, but when you add in accessories, licensing deals with operators, etc... it adds up to a LOT of cash.
B

Yes but do you think this is realistic. They are saying 10 million is 1% and that is true but this phone is not really in the mobile phone catagory it is in the smart phone catagory (I think) which lowers the figures dramatically. I am sure Apple Inc Marketers and such have done there research but I cant see how they can put the iPhone in the general catagory of mobile phones and I think it belongs in the smart phone category.

 

[TequilaBoobs]

if you look at how many people out there bought the awful chocolate phone purely on looks alone (yours truly included), i think the iPhone has a good chance of biting off some market share.

the phone dazzles, and it will certainly be imitated. too many new features to predict the success right now, but i know now is probably the best time to launch an iPhone considering apple's recent popularity following the intel switch.

 

[peharri]

Yes but do you think this is realistic. They are saying 10 million is 1% and that is true but this phone is not really in the mobile phone catagory it is in the smart phone catagory (I think) which lowers the figures dramatically. I am sure Apple Inc Marketers and such have done there research but I cant see how they can put the iPhone in the general catagory of mobile phones and I think it belongs in the smart phone category.

I'm finding the whole thing impossible to fathom.

With hindsight, I see why iPod was successful. While MP3 players at the time came from no-name companies and were over-sized or too low in capacity, the iPod was the right balance and was clearly easy to use.

When iPod mini came out, I didn't really understand it until I saw the market it was aimed at snapping it up.

When iPod photo came out, I finally knew enough to figure out why someone would want it and be prepared to buy it, largely through having a fiance (now wife who was always proudly showing pictures of her nieces to everyone. The idea of adding a photo library made some sort of sense.

But now with this I'm back to square one. I don't see the market. I don't understand why anyone, beyond a very snooty Mac enthusiast, would get this in favour of a good Nokia or Motorola. It's large, about three times the size of my V635 and, remarkably, actually larger than my second generation iPod (except for width, of course.)

The price is very high. Yes, so was the RAZR's, but the RAZR's came down in short order once the initial hype subsided, and IIRC it was never $500! Recent phones in the RAZR series, KRZR and RIZR, unlocked and unsubsidized, are around $300 today. So the market for phones costing over $500 that, even then, require contracts is, well, questionable.

And price is something key. People are used to getting free phones, or phones that "cost" $50-150. My wife gets horrified when I buy them because I always insist on getting something unlocked and unsubsidized. But even I spend $250-300, not $500-600.

To believe it's going to sell well is to believe that a significant number of people will look at it and say "I need this. And I'm the kind of money that has $500 to spend, and am happy about spending it on a (good) phone." I'm failing to see who that group are. Who is this thing aimed at?

Without knowing that, I can't tell if this is a Thread 500 for me, again, or something that'll bomb exactly the way it first appears.

 

[valdore]

I'm giving it a couple of years (and some downward price revisions) before getting one. All I ever do with my cell phone is yack anyway, I never bother with Internet, except when I'm at a real computer.

 

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

To believe it's going to sell well is to believe that a significant number of people will look at it and say "I need this. And I'm the kind of money that has $500 to spend, and am happy about spending it on a (good) phone." I'm failing to see who that group are. Who is this thing aimed at?

I need this.

I don't have anywhere near $500 (or whatever the price in Norway will be in Q4), but you can bet I'll scrape those funds together come Christmas...

 

[The Scotsman]

I'm finding the whole thing impossible to fathom.

Agreed 100%

My main problem with the iPhone is the memory size. EG buy an 8gb model. It will not replace us who live with our ipod. Us who watch missed tv progs on our lunch break. Have our whole music collection on it and just put it into our speakers when we get home to charge it and listen to it.

I would be tempted if it was a normal 1 year tie in and could replace my iPod but as things stand even with the iPhone I will still need to keep my iPod and carry both items on a daily basis. Therefore I will stick with my Ipod in my right trouser pocket and my slim tiny sony Ericcson behind my wallet in my left pocket.

 

[yellow]

Credible media reported the leave of abscence aka stepping down.

These are not the same thing.. a "leave of absence" implies returning, "stepping down" implies leaving forever.

As for the size of the flash drive...

I think Apple is banking more (for the moment) on their iTunes Store purchases of movies (a 2.5 hour movie is roughtly 1.7GB), rather than a huge DVD rip.

My main question is this:

BATTERY LIFE

My RAZR has craptastic battery life, but it's paper thin. How does a paper thin ipod/cell/video/barofsoap stand to fair with today's battery tech? None to well I'm guessing.

 

[ki-goi]

[apple] also created the Newton, the Cube, & other devices that no one cares about anymore.... 10 years ago, Apple was a company no one wanted to touch w/ a 20 foot pole.

the newton was an inspiring piece of tech, much more surprising in function and cost than people could deal with at the time. it had a major timing problem.

i think if it had been released a couple years later, the same people who beat up on the automatic poetry machine would have hailed it the way they hailed having people hand deliver videotapes to your door for free as a fantastic new business model. maybe with a little dotcom push the newton would have then survived to get its needed brain transplant and become a model for the future, instead of the 1991-era handheld mac that was the palm.

which was great, don't get me wrong. i love telling people my handspring quadra runs on AAA batteries.

anyway on the positive side, steve didn't mention the powerbook as an apple contribution to society, cuz he wasn't there for that, but it's another big one.

where apple was 10 years ago? same place SGI and sun were, basically. a bunch of good people with good products getting hosed by their own pride and the windows monopoly. there was a transition that needed making, a bridge to cross toward the bright future where computers were made for pennies and sold for dimes and people in east asia got a little of the money and all the pollution. somebody needed to bravely reach into the global parts bin where no silivalley maverick had gone before and steve did it once for imac and then again for ipod and voila, revolution.

They are saying 10 million is 1% and that is true but this phone is not really in the mobile phone catagory it is in the smart phone catagory (I think) which lowers the figures dramatically.

disagree. like the powerbook, i think this bridges the gap between the categories and will make both smart and dumb phone users wish for what's behind door #iphone. various folks i know who have ordinary phones and are lost in unlabeled buttons and eye-crossing menus are salivating over this PHD interface.

 

[50548]

I need this.

I don't have anywhere near $500 (or whatever the price in Norway will be in Q4), but you can bet I'll scrape those funds together come Christmas...

Me too, even though I wasn't one of those excited about a new phone...but Apple amazed me again...I will get one as soon as it arrives in CH, as long as Sunrise provides it.

These are not the same thing.. a "leave of absence" implies returning, "stepping down" implies leaving forever.

As for the size of the flash drive...

I think Apple is banking more (for the moment) on their iTunes Store purchases of movies (a 2.5 hour movie is roughtly 1.7GB), rather than a huge DVD rip.

My main question is this:

BATTERY LIFE

My RAZR has craptastic battery life, but it's paper thin. How does a paper thin ipod/cell/video/barofsoap stand to fair with today's battery tech? None to well I'm guessing.

And what is craptastic? I have a RAZR too and it's pretty good at 1 week standby battery time...

 

[The Scotsman]

disagree. like the powerbook, i think this bridges the gap between the categories and will make both smart and dumb phone users wish for what's behind door #iphone. various folks i know who have ordinary phones and are lost in unlabeled buttons and eye-crossing menus are salivating over this PHD interface.

Yes I can slightly see what you are saying here. And yes Agreed the iPhone is a start to bridge the gap. And yes I have never disagreed that the iPhone is brilliant with the loss of buttons and the touch screen is out of this world genius. I just think that they should have started with just a phone nothing more nothing less. Imagine how many iPod owners and non iPod owners would buy it if it was just a phone and had the UI like the iPhone and the voice mail features. Buy puting it all in one product I believe they have alienated large capacity Ipod users and the trandy cool people who like small mobile phones over genius ones. 30-80gb ipod users in general I do not think will buy this as it would be two products to carry and one of the features of the Iphone will be redundant

 

[MrCrowbar]

Yes but do you think this is realistic. They are saying 10 million is 1% and that is true but this phone is not really in the mobile phone catagory it is in the smart phone catagory (I think) which lowers the figures dramatically. I am sure Apple Inc Marketers and such have done there research but I cant see how they can put the iPhone in the general catagory of mobile phones and I think it belongs in the smart phone category.

I agree. I remember when the iPod mini was announced. Back then, the iPod was for fancy people with lots of music and money, way more than the average user. Steve showed a pie chart where you had quite a big part beeing taken by sub 256 MB mp3-players with bad interfaces. He said "we wanna go after these guys". And "boom", iPod mini. Same functionality, more mainstream, smaller, cheaper, colored.

I'm one of the many people that are reluctant to pay $500 + 2 year contract for something I "only" use on the go since I can do all it does on a big machine at home more efficiently. I predict there will be a slimmed down version (iPhone mini probably), that will have a little less features (no camera, no video, no coverflow, no safari, same storage as the original iPhone) for a more mainstream price. Oh yea, this thing has to get smaller for me to want to carry it with me all the time.

The iPod mini would be a good form factor, small enough for the pocket, still big enough for a touchscreen keyboard and one line of text in landscape mode. Alternatively, a traditional 12 key (virtual) keypad, just like normal phones nowadays. You can type pretty fast on old Nokia phones before the color displays and annoying overloaded menus. I'd love to briefly flip the mini iPhone to landscape for special characters for example. You can make so much with a well designed touchscreen.

 

[The Scotsman]

A Spanner In The Works

I have just had a thought. Might be completely wrong and stupid but.

The iPhone is Made. We know this as Steve jobs had a few during his keynote speech. And FCC (or whatever you call it) approval takes roughly 2 months. To me this brings us up to this date in March. The deal is already sealed with cingular for the US so why is the phone not being launched in March-April.

Is Mr Jobs testing the water. Is the iPhone a sure thing or does steve Jobs want to see the reaction to the launch before puting it into mass production. It would take several months after FCC aproval to make enough to satisfy demand (if much) this would bring us to June. I wonder.,

They could not release a true video iPod before this as people would buy that and not the phone. Is anybody like me thinking that maybe something is not always what it seems

 

[gwangung]

I agree. I remember when the iPod mini was announced. Back then, the iPod was for fancy people with lots of music and money, way more than the average user. Steve showed a pie chart where you had quite a big part beeing taken by sub 256 MB mp3-players with bad interfaces. He said "we wanna go after these guys". And "boom", iPod mini. Same functionality, more mainstream, smaller, cheaper, colored.

I'm one of the many people that are reluctant to pay $500 + 2 year contract for something I "only" use on the go since I can do all it does on a big machine at home more efficiently. I predict there will be a slimmed down version (iPhone mini probably), that will have a little less features (no camera, no video, no coverflow, no safari, same storage as the original iPhone) for a more mainstream price. Oh yea, this thing has to get smaller for me to want to carry it with me all the time.

The iPod mini would be a good form factor, small enough for the pocket, still big enough for a touchscreen keyboard and one line of text in landscape mode. Alternatively, a traditional 12 key (virtual) keypad, just like normal phones nowadays. You can type pretty fast on old Nokia phones before the color displays and annoying overloaded menus. I'd love to briefly flip the mini iPhone to landscape for special characters for example. You can make so much with a well designed touchscreen.

I dunno. I have a sneaking suspicion that once iPhones are in people's hands, they are gonna FIND uses for them, and find ways to use it, and not the laptop or the desktop machine.

 

[cheekyspanky]

We've been chatting about this at work today - if Apple have a similar set up in the UK (partnering with one phone company) who will it be..

Vodafone, Orange, O2?
T-Mobile... Not chosen in the US..may reduce likeliness of being chosen in UK,
Three... Not 3G (at the moment anyway) so no good,

What's your thoughts? The conclusion at work was O2.

 

[Aardy]

Whingers everywhere

I really can't believe how much whinging there has been in this forum. I've read every single post (I must have way too much time on my hands) and I really can't believe what I'm reading.

The whingers seem to be in 8 camps:

1: "It's only 8 GB" - this is a flash memory based device, not a hard disk based device. This allows for several things: lower power requirements, less need for power management to spin down a hard disk when not in use, lighter, less heat involved, no moving parts, smaller physical size.

2: Cingular - They're US only and the first market is the US. Cingular is, as far as I understand it, the largest mobile carrier in the US. If they were going to go with a single network, then you go with the biggest, it's simple business sense. Yes, an unlocked phone would be better but as I understand it the technologies are very different across the networks; there may not be enough physical space in the phone to allow for everything in its initial incarnation.

3: "will it sync, have 802.11n, have feature x" - we don't know yet, so stop asking. We're not clairvoyants and have no inside knowledge. The actual release is some months away, so just sit on your hands and learn some patience. Idle speculation about what it will/won't do is an exercise in futility.

4: "My (insert name of current phone here) does the same stuff" - it may indeed do just about everything that the iPhone does, but does it do it as well? Does it do it with such an innovative interface that brings mobile smartphone usage out of the dark ages?

5: "It's too expensive" - This is a first generation, top of the range device with some innovative technologies. Do you really expect it to be on sale for $10? The first run of a top end device is always expensive. Look back at the innovative devices of the past and look at the price points of the first run - VHS recorders, CD-ROM, DVD players, Plasma and LCD TVs, the first iPod, the first mobile phone. Now tell me it's way overpriced for what it is.

6: "It's a 2 year contract" - I'm in the UK and 2 year contracts are almost unknown. Here it's 12-18 months as standard. I don't know how the US market works - is a 2 year contract unusual?

7: "It isn't G3" - Again, in the initial market (the US), 3G isn't all that prevalent. Steve Jobs mentioned in the keynote that they are "working on 3G" - presumably that'll be for the European version where 3G is far more widespread. That's probably 9 months away, and it's almost certain 3G will be available by then.

8: "I wanted a widescreen video iPod, new Mac, better display, (put product of choice here)" - Well, I wanted a 24" MacBookPro with a 1 TB hard drive, 802.11n+, wireless firewire 1600, USB 4, 12 GB RAM, neural and thought control, that has a 17 day battery life, stays at 20 degrees C (68 F ) and folds up into my wallet, but it's not going to happen. It's January 10th - the year is a mere 10 days old, there's 355 more days to get excited about other products, have some patience.

What we have got is something that is new, has an innovative interface, that raises the bar as far as design, integration and functionality are concerned and may well cause people to think a little differently about how they interact and use their mobile devices.

As I mentioned in my previous post (way back on page 16!) - take a deep breath and step back. Then really look at what's on offer.

 

[Warbrain]

Here's my question, and I think I have the answer for it, but there is no definite answer at the moment...

Even though Yahoo is providing free push e-mail for the iPhone, users will still need to pay for the data usage over the EDGE network, right? Or did/will Cingular allow users to use it for nothing?

 

[The Scotsman]

O2

I wonder I think O2 is in some partnership with microsoft over its smart phones. Cant remember name of it. Orange has its spv with windows mobile 5 I think also so that would leave vodaphone. and apple tends to go for biggest network supplier even though it may not be the best.

Dont quote me on this I dont know if my words are accurate.

 

[valdore]

6: "It's a 2 year contract" - I'm in the UK and 2 year contracts are almost unknown. Here it's 12-18 months as standard. I don't know how the US market works - is a 2 year contract unusual?

Yes, I think the 2 year contracts are more the norm than the exception in the US cell phone market. I think it stinks because most cell phones I've ever owned never last that long. Then they get you to sign yet another contract just to avoid paying through the nose initially on yet another new phone.

 

[fiddle245]

I really can't believe how much whinging there has been in this forum. I've read every single post (I must have way too much time on my hands) and I really can't believe what I'm reading.

The whingers seem to be in 8 camps:

8? Try 2- Fanboys & realists

As I mentioned in my previous post (way back on page 16!) - take a deep breath and step back. Then really look at what's on offer.

Whats to offer that hasnt already been out for the past 12 months?

-large touch screen for $600?

No thanks- I'll stick to my BB Pearl I got FREE from TMobile

Already gives me all the push email, internet, video, & music I
need.

Nothing revolutionary here folks. Move along...

Here's my question, and I think I have the answer for it, but there is no definite answer at the moment...

Even though Yahoo is providing free push e-mail for the iPhone, users will still need to pay for the data usage over the EDGE network, right? Or did/will Cingular allow users to use it for nothing?

Cingular will probably charge no less than $80/month for
Data/ Phone service

 

[digitalbiker]

Here's my question, and I think I have the answer for it, but there is no definite answer at the moment...

Even though Yahoo is providing free push e-mail for the iPhone, users will still need to pay for the data usage over the EDGE network, right? Or did/will Cingular allow users to use it for nothing?

Pretty sure you are going to have to pay Cingular.

Cingular hasn't announced any special pricing for the iPhone yet so you can only assume it will be just like all of the other Cingular phones.

However a lot can happen in 6 months. Maybe Cingular is going to offer a special 2 year package of services just for Apple users.

 

[fiddle245]

**BREAKING NEWS**

Cisco Sues Apple over iPhone Trademark

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/sto...C32D3880E5}&dateid=39092.7481000579-886923964

Cisco files infringement suit against Apple over iPhone


the iPhones long road to market begins w/ a speedbump