Apple Apparently Wants to Offer NFL Sunday Ticket to Apple TV+ Subscribers at No Extra Cost, But NFL Balks

[Spiffyis5150]

Why would watching the same feed on Apple TV affect ad revenue? As you pointed out, CBS and FOX still control the broadcast and the ads.

Not if it's on Sunday Ticket they don't. CBS and Fox get money for OTA ad revenue and anything that THEY do with their online platforms. They don't get anything from NFL ST. If a viewer was watching Fox on their cable or OTA channel and move to NFL ST, that's a loss of viewership for them. All their contracts with advertisers are based on # of people they reach. Advertisers will ask for lower rates if they think they aren't reaching the views for the money they are paying.

 

[mannyvel]

The problem is that there may be a "best price" clause in the other TV contracts that would cause the NFL to owe the other broadcaster big bucks.

 

[BaldiMac]

Not if it's on Sunday Ticket they don't. CBS and Fox get money for OTA ad revenue and anything that THEY do with their online platforms. They don't get anything from NFL ST. If a viewer was watching Fox on their cable or OTA channel and move to NFL ST, that's a loss of viewership for them. All their contracts with advertisers are based on # of people they reach. Advertisers will ask for lower rates if they think they aren't reaching the views for the money they are paying.

Thanks. I don't have ST, so I'm trying to understand. Aren't the same ads shown on ST as the OTA, cable, and online streams?

 

[ComRadMac]

Sunday Ticket hasn't been worth what they're charging for it since it started. Way, way overpriced for what it is.

 

[ComRadMac]

another round of Apple trying to get something for towards nothing and expecting the owner of the content to just roll over and accept it for some reason. We've seen this play out MANY times before.

What are you talking about? NFL gets paid the same either way. Apple not expecting anything for nothing... they're paying billions of dollars for this content. Why shouldn't Apple be able to charge (or not) whatever they want?

 

[Spiffyis5150]

Thanks. I don't have ST, so I'm trying to understand. Aren't the same ads shown on ST as the OTA, cable, and online streams?

OTA, cable and online are NOT the same for ads. You will see some of the same ads for nationals but there are ad spots for each platform to insert their own ads. I have to admit that I don't have DirectTV so I haven't watched NFL ST to compare and so I don't know exactly what is or isn't passed along as far as ads. Most of the online entities that my company distributes to does their own ad insertions along with stuff that's already in the video stream so it tends to be a combo. I'm also not sure in that scenario how those ad views would get lumped into the broadcaster's #s. Being on the technical side of things, I don't know a lot of about how all the ad stuff is measured internally. I tend to hear more about total #s for a game and whether the broadcaster was happy or not with their views. I hear about it because our SLAs for network transmission are considered as impactful to viewership. In short, we screw up transmission, that's a loss of viewers which directly impact viewership. Viewers can't watch what isn't on their TV. Also, I might add that NFL ST isn't part of my distribution/transmission network, otherwise I'd look. The broadcasters have private connections with DTV for that distribution path.

 

[BaldiMac]

I have to admit that I don't have DirectTV so I haven't watched NFL ST to compare and so I don't know exactly what is or isn't passed along as far as ads. Most of the online entities that my company distributes to does their own ad insertions along with stuff that's already in the video stream so it tends to be a combo. I'm also not sure in that scenario how those ad views would get lumped into the broadcaster's #s. Being on the technical side of things, I don't know a lot of about how all the ad stuff is measured internally. I tend to hear more about total #s for a game and whether the broadcaster was happy or not with their views. I hear about it because our SLAs for network transmission are considered as impactful to viewership. In short, we screw up transmission, that's a loss of viewers which directly impact viewership. Viewers can't watch what isn't on their TV.

Hopefully, someone with ST can chime in. I'd assume that the national ads that FOX and CBS sell are passed on through ST. And then DirectTV (or Apple) would have control of the ad space that normally goes to local affiliates.

 

[athousandbands]

Hopefully, someone with ST can chime in. I'd assume that the national ads that FOX and CBS sell are passed on through ST. And then DirectTV (or Apple) would have control of the ad space that normally goes to local affiliates.

I wanna say “my friend” who uses reddit-vibe streams sees a placeholder animation thing—’you are watching NFL sunday ticket’ screensaver

 

[Spiffyis5150]

Hopefully, someone with ST can chime in. I'd assume that the national ads that FOX and CBS sell are passed on through ST. And then DirectTV (or Apple) would have control of the ad space that normally goes to local affiliates.

Yea, that's the part that gets tricky. Are the national ads part of the big broadcaster or with each platform? They are national, but nationals advertisers can contract with whoever so it may be that the advertiser is contracting with DTV, Fox, CBS, NBC and ESPN for a national ad on an NFL game. I'll ask around to some people I know at my customers and see what they say. I have to admit that I haven't thought about a lot about where the ads get inserted. In my job, the video I see has NO ads ever because I am doing transmission from the sports venue to the broadcaster before ad insertion and censor'ing/bleeping occurs at the broadcaster's facility.

 

[sdf]

I can't help but feel this is what price fixing actually looks like, for good or ill.

 

[Spiffyis5150]

I wanna say “my friend” who uses reddit-vibe streams sees a placeholder animation thing—’you are watching NFL sunday ticket’ screensaver

I've seen that a few times in some of the bars that have DTV but is that the whole game? I've never watched an entire game on DTV ST before. 🤔

 

[GtrDude]

People still watching the NFL?

 

[alchemistmuffin]

Huge if true! Can you point me to where they said this?

Well, unfortunately Apple caved into MLS’s demands so unfortunately everyone has to pay for add on, something Apple resisted doing so for long time (and Steve Jobs is probably rolling in grave for Apple to charge for add on for paid service)

 

[Surf760]

If Sunday Ticket is so cheap, more people will get it and watch games on that instead of on regular TV, hurting those networks' ratings and advertising revenue.

Sunday Ticket blocks the local broadcast games so that's not really how it would work. You have to switch over to regular broadcast for the local market games. Sunday Ticket is only helpful if you're a fan of an out-of-market team that isn't shown on your local market.

 

[bozzykid]

If a viewer was watching Fox on their cable or OTA channel and move to NFL ST, that's a loss of viewership for them.

If a game is on your local Fox, it will be blacked out on Sunday Ticket. The NFL just wants this to appear to be a premium product. The nfl is used to Sunday Ticket being inaccessible to most viewers. No matter who they pick for the streaming package, the price isn’t going to be as high as Directv got away with.

 

[Apple_Robert]

I would sub to Apple TV+ if football was included.

 

[trhoffmann]

One thing i liked about Apple’s coverage of MLB was their daily recap - highlights of every game from the previous day. They even did this for the playoffs and World Series, even though their contract to broadcast games ended with the regular season. If they secure the Sunday Ticket rights I hope they will offer a similar recap of all the NFL games..

 

[CarAnalogy]

I‘m an AT&T customer and DirecTV satellite subscriber. The past two years I’ve received Sunday Ticket for free.

Well not entirely free. You had to deal with AT&T and satellite. I’m not that big of a football fan.

I’ve yet to be unable to watch a game I really wanted to watch using Hulu with Live TV. DVR and all. And now of course all Thursday night games are only on Amazon. I wonder how this deal would affect that.

Considering the experience with MLB games, and Apple’s recent direction with the TV app, it may actually not be an improvement for Apple to get this.

 

[Surf760]

If the NFL lets Apple make Sunday Ticket free, then as people said earlier in the discussion, the broadcaster would most likely lose viewers and thus lose ad revenue. Ad revenue is how all the broadcasters make up the huge amounts of money that they pay NFL for the content. NFL does NOT want to screw their rights holders who have already paid large sums of money to them(aka the big broadcasters). I suspect it's a tricky thing between the NFL, Apple(or Amazon) and the various broadcasters when it comes to the Sunday Ticket stuff going online that could disrupt viewership if the right balance isn't found. For the record, I am NOT saying I think NFL should force Apple to charge for ST. I just don't see how Apple wins a battle that while it looks right for the consumers(us) is not good for the NFL and its' rights holders. The NFL and the broadcasters are all multi billion dollar companies. Apple and NFL ST are just a small contribution(whatever that final dollar amount ends up being) compared to the deals that NFL has with the broadcasters. NFL will not bend to Apple's will if it ends up hurting their biggest content licensers which would in turn hurt the NFL. The money for the Apple NFL ST deal would have to come close or exceed the deals the broadcasters are doing with NFL for Apple to really have a strong argument. NBC, FOX, CBS all paid around $2 billion for their last renewal and ESPN was reported to have paid $2.7 billion. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/18/sports/football/nfl-tv-contracts.html

I think this is the confusion for most people that maybe you could clarify. How are those broadcasters losing revenue when even if Apple charges $0 or $40 to stream to its subscribers, all those same broadcast ads are being shown? Apple could probably provide the broadcasters much better information than they'd ever get from a Nielsen rating, so don't the networks actually stand to benefit by getting that streaming data back on top of their Nielsen numbers then going to ad agencies demanding higher payment for commercial spots?

 

[Surf760]

OTA, cable and online are NOT the same for ads. You will see some of the same ads for nationals but there are ad spots for each platform to insert their own ads. I have to admit that I don't have DirectTV so I haven't watched NFL ST to compare and so I don't know exactly what is or isn't passed along as far as ads. Most of the online entities that my company distributes to does their own ad insertions along with stuff that's already in the video stream so it tends to be a combo. I'm also not sure in that scenario how those ad views would get lumped into the broadcaster's #s. Being on the technical side of things, I don't know a lot of about how all the ad stuff is measured internally. I tend to hear more about total #s for a game and whether the broadcaster was happy or not with their views. I hear about it because our SLAs for network transmission are considered as impactful to viewership. In short, we screw up transmission, that's a loss of viewers which directly impact viewership. Viewers can't watch what isn't on their TV. Also, I might add that NFL ST isn't part of my distribution/transmission network, otherwise I'd look. The broadcasters have private connections with DTV for that distribution path.

I have the digital DTV ST app on my Apple TV currently, I get all the regular CBS and FOX OTA ads.

 

[tritian]

If Sunday Ticket is so cheap, more people will get it and watch games on that instead of on regular TV, hurting those networks' ratings and advertising revenue.

Incorrect. NFL Sunday Ticket does not include the games from your local networks. It wont hurt them at all.

 

[LeadingHeat]

If only they still had their star negotiator in their corner!

 

[MallardDuck]

They'd better not use 'content costs' as an excuse to raise prices next year. I have zero interest in this. Let the people who want it pay for it.

 

[athousandbands]

Well, unfortunately Apple caved into MLS’s demands so unfortunately everyone has to pay for add on, something Apple resisted doing so for long time (and Steve Jobs is probably rolling in grave for Apple to charge for add on for paid service)

Duh. I could have read that better. Can you tell I got excited and sprinted off to the Apple News room

 

[MallardDuck]

NFL needs to dump broadcast and turn the corner. Go all in on 8K streaming and leave the support for vintage 320p TVs via over the air behind. It's a new day. 8K sports will be almost like being there in person. Do it NFL!

8K is useless, but agree 100% otherwise. All the sports leagues need to move to direct streaming. Buy what you want, don't buy what you don't. Broadcast Blackouts are stupid in the age of streaming and hugely expensive tickets (and should be illegal), and they're going to lose an entire generation of fans who don't have a cable package and can't get an RSN otherwise. They're trying to protect a dying business model.