Apple Asks All U.S. Employees to Share Vaccination Status, Still No Mandate

[nathansz]

Less then 180 kids with under the age of 12 have died of covid. Of the kids that have died 99% had prior health issues. I say that not to say I'm okay with kids dying. Those lives matter, but those are known as outliers. We can't prevent all death. 400+ kids die a year from the typical seasonal flu but schools arn't shutting down or mandating masks. It's sadly part of life. No I'm not cool with kids dying, no one is, but you don't make policy on outliers

If you want to prevent all deaths, there is lots of other things you can puruse. I better see you outside the courthouse demanding we mandate a 30 mph speed limit across the nation because way way more kids die of car accidents then covid. If we lower speed limits crashes would be less severe and less common due to more reaction time.

This "your cool with killing kids argument" is a ****** bad faith argument that I am so sick because it has no basis in the data.

childhood infections, hospitalizations and deaths are all on the rise in places like florida with low vaccination rates

that’s what the data says

and the longer people allow the virus to mutate by refusing to be vaccinated it will only get worse

if you just don’t care that’s fine, but don’t pretend there’s nothing anyone can do

that’s just lazy, disingenuous and untrue

 

[fenderbass146]

childhood infections, hospitalizations and deaths are all on the rise in places like florida with low vaccination rates

that’s what the data says

and the longer people allow the virus to mutate by refusing to be vaccinated it will only get worse

if you just don’t care that’s fine, but don’t pretend there’s nothing anyone can do

that’s just lazy, disingenuous and untrue

Yes...it is on the rise...and still insanely rare. There are things we can do. Wear masks, get vaccinated, social distance, but those shouldn't be mandated by the Government and should be individual choices. Businesses can do what they like regardless how silly I believe it is when the entire work force can now be vaccinated and statically kids at risk isn't a major concern as much as you want it to be. It's insane. For example Disney World is mandating masks again...well sure they can do what they want, but who's the irresponsible one. The people not wanting to wear masks to protect them and others against a virus with a good vaccine, or the family taking their kids to a crowded amusement park during a pandemicif they are truly concerned for their kids saftey. We all know especially with this new delta wave that masks are far from 100% effective and 99% of people are definitely not wearing n95's. Everything has become political messaging more than actual purpose now.

 

[nathansz]

Wear masks, get vaccinated, social distance, but those shouldn't be mandated by the Government

why not? ‘cause “freedom”

that seems much more like political messaging than simply convincing people to do the right thing

 

[Grohowiak]

I certainly could have worded that better, which is why I removed that post, as I realized I didn't actually have time to say what I was trying to say

being a responsible member of society means that one's individual rights must not negatively impact the rights and safety of other individuals. so if one insists on acting irresponsibly towards their community, that is in ways that can negatively effect there rights (in this case by potentially causing harm, suffering and even death) and claiming this action as a right than yes, their responsibility to their community should indeed trump their individual rights in that case.

there is nothing authoritarian about this conception all, not least of which because I'm not intending anyone be forced to do anything, but rather talking about what they ought to do. furthermore, to act in this manner is indeed a requirement for a well functioning civil society. I'm sure you are familiar with the distinction between freedom from and freedom to, and perhaps also the arguably related christian conception of "the golden rule" (I'm not religious myself to be sure, but I'm a fan of the golden rule)

as far as "In order for your words to be actually true you need to prove that what you said is correct and factual in the context of taking the shot," that's a fairly convoluted sentence that I'm not sure what to do with.

perhaps you can help me here, but it seems like you are trying to say that if we cannot guarantee that there will be no future negative effects of vaccination that no one should have to be vaccinated?

does that not run both ways? what about the future effects of so many people dying from covid and those that survive it for whom the long term effects are as yet unknown? setting aside the fact that the current negative effects of low vaccination rates far outweigh the current negative effects of being vaccinated, it certainly SEEMS riskier to me to bet on less vaccination providing the better outcome. but if we are honest none of actually know the future. does that mean we shan't have an opinion?

Opinion is great but telling people what they can or can't do is not.
That is literally the definition of authoritarian action.
au·thor·i·tar·i·an
favoring or enforcing strict obedience to authority, especially that of the government, at the expense of personal freedom.

I don't understand that is so hard for people to realize that you are free to do what you want as long as you do not limit other peoples rights especially in the name of a unproven science.
Business can do what they want but when government tells you that you won't be able to do certain things lets say without a vaccine passport that right there is authoritarian action. That's a fact.

What's mind-blowing that everybody on the left accused Trump of being authoritarian / dictator and all the funky stuff and here we are. People are defending such actions cause they suit their narrative. At this point the definition is not longer relevant cause they feel it is "necessary" without actually being sure about it. Talk about hypocrisy to the fullest which is one of the reasons people do not trust the government. It's all political. And you know it is once CDC and Gov is putting pressure on FDA which is the agency built to make sure whatever is that you take is actually safe for you.

That's all I am trying to say.

 

[fenderbass146]

why not? ‘cause “freedom”

that seems much more like political messaging than simply convincing people to do the right thing

Yes…may not be important to you but it’s important to me and the slippery slope applies. Masks I don’t have a huge problem with but forcing people to take a vaccine for a virus with a 99.5+ survival rate that’s been out less then a year I have a problem with.

my body my choice…at least that’s what I’ve been told.

im vaccinated but do not support forcing it

 

[nathansz]

Opinion is great but telling people what they can or can't do is not.
That is literally the definition of authoritarian action.
au·thor·i·tar·i·an
favoring or enforcing strict obedience to authority, especially that of the government, at the expense of personal freedom.

I don't understand that is so hard for people to realize that you are free to do what you want as long as you do not limit other peoples rights especially in the name of a unproven science.
Business can do what they want but when government tells you that you won't be able to do certain things lets say without a passport that right there is authoritarian action. That's a fact.

What's mind-blowing that everybody on the left accused Trump of being authoritarian / dictator and all the funky stuff and here we are. People are defending such actions cause they suit their narrative. At this point the definition is not longer relevant cause they feel it is "necessary" without actually being sure about it.

That's all I am trying to say.

nowhere in that post am i telling anyone what they can or cannot do, nor saying that any government should do such

i’m talking about what people ought to do

once again, nothing authoritarian about it

 

[Grohowiak]

this here is the issue. it’s not about just protecting yourself but also those around you

it is absolutely the business of anyone you come in to contact with whether or not you pose a risk to them

if one doesn’t want to get vaccinated that’s fine. but they should both remain isolated for the protection of others and stop spreading dangerous and deadly misinformation on the internet

What risk do you pose to the vaccinated?
I thought vaccines prevent 100% hospitalization. That what I was told. So the unvaccinated isn't a concern to me.
If you can't get vaccinated for some reason then not much changes since you can get it from somebody that was vaccinated.
Believing that you can stop it is just funny.

With that being said why no same mandate for influenza that also kills people and has potential to mutate into something crazy?

Even better, why no sugar ban? That thing is killing millions around the world and that data is dead on confirmed.

 

[Rafterman]

"Hello, Mr Williams. Welcome to Tuskegee. We want you to participate in a study. If you don't then we respect your decision, though you might not like living here very much as a consequence. You have beautiful kids, by the way!

By the way, we'd like the name of your doctor so we can have a little...talk with him. Just to verify a few things, of course. Routine."

I suggest you look up the history of Tuskegee before saying stupid things.

 

[bradl]

Yes...it is on the rise...and still insanely rare. There are things we can do. Wear masks, get vaccinated, social distance, but those shouldn't be mandated by the Government and should be individual choices. Businesses can do what they like regardless how silly I believe it is when the entire work force can now be vaccinated and statically kids at risk isn't a major concern as much as you want it to be. It's insane. For example Disney World is mandating masks again...well sure they can do what they want, but who's the irresponsible one. The people not wanting to wear masks to protect them and others against a virus with a good vaccine, or the family taking their kids to a crowded amusement park during a pandemicif they are truly concerned for their kids saftey. We all know especially with this new delta wave that masks are far from 100% effective and 99% of people are definitely not wearing n95's. Everything has become political messaging more than actual purpose now.

Oh, but the government can mandate those. SCOTUS gave them the right to. That is where your problem lies and ends.

BL.

 

[WitchDoktor]

I suggest you look up tjh history of Tuskegee before saying stupid things.

Maybe you should.

Then when you're finished at The University of Wikipedia, maybe reflect on what has happened throughout history when society creates an underclass of people and blames all sorts of ills upon them.

Then maybe go through this thread, and/or your own actions, and perform some self reflection.

Just a suggestion.

 

[Dave00]

I believe in the vaccine too, but just for comparison... what's the death rate of Covid compared to getting in or being around a vehicle. Once you find out, you'll realized we should also ban all forms of motorized transportation.

So, if the death rate from getting into a vehicle were around 2% like it is from Covid, you can bet your banana we'd ban motorized transportation.

 

[I7guy]

[…]
I thought vaccines prevent 100% hospitalization. That what I was told.

Who told you that? And if it was an official entity there must be a record of that.

[…]

With that being said why no same mandate for influenza that also kills people and has potential to mutate into something crazy?

Because influenza doesn’t fill up the hospitals and cause potential long term health issues?

Even better, why no sugar ban? That thing is killing millions around the world and that data is dead on confirmed.

Is a poor diet spread through droplets?

 

[Dave00]

For one, it's been proven that vaxxed people can still spread the virus. Your co-worker that you plan on sitting next to that's been double- or triple-poked is just as dangerous as those that haven't been.

Nope, sorry. Second part of this is demonstrably false. Vaccinated people can spread virus, but generally only when they've been infected, which happens around 20x less often than in unvaccinated.

Guianne Barre is not a contraindication to getting vaccinated. Among 702 patients with previous Guianne Barre who received mRNA Covid vaccination, there was one case of GBS, which was mild and self-limited.

If you choose not to be vaccinated, that's your right. But it's not your right to then participate in indoor events with people who've gotten vaccinated. I wish those folks would also stay away from hospitals when they do get sick from a largely preventable disease.

 

[WitchDoktor]

If you choose not to be vaccinated, that's your right. But it's not your right to then participate in indoor events with people who've gotten vaccinated. I wish those folks would also stay away from hospitals when they do get sick from a largely preventable disease.

See what I mean, everyone?

 

[nathansz]

35-32#-23_94-58

 

[jdawgnoonan]

If you haven't gotten a vaccination shot at this point, you should be fired from your job. The overhead of having to deal with unvaccinated workers is just too high for a business to operate.

Why, because vaccinated people are less likely to know they have COVID and therefore the unvaccinated are at higher risk from them? Un-vaccinated people don't pose much risk to the vaccinated.

 

[jdawgnoonan]

You can spread COVID just as easily with the vaccine, per the CDC.

It is so funny how people downvote your factual comment. The only advantage the vaccinated have is a lowered risk of actually knowing they have it since they don't get very sick on average.

 

[A MacBook lover]

Do the right thing. Support choice.

 

[fenderbass146]

Do the right thing. Support choice.View attachment 1826922

Love this

 

[CasualFanboy]

that seems much more like political messaging

Kinda like that cringe avatar, big boy? 🤣

 

[nathansz]

Kinda like that cringe avatar, big boy? 🤣

big boy?

what does that even mean?

i suppose fascism is less cringy to you than opposing fascism. very cool

 

[bradl]

Do the right thing. Support choice.View attachment 1826922

Not for nothing, but both this post and the people in this picture should be as equally up in arms about the abortion laws in Texas; otherwise, we'll have an insane amount of hypocrisy here.

Besides, when it comes to vaccines for this pandemic, their choice has been made moot by SCOTUS, whether they like it or not.

BL.

 

[nathansz]

Not for nothing, but both this post and the people in this picture should be as equally up in arms about the abortion laws in Texas; otherwise, we'll have an insane amount of hypocrisy here.

Besides, when it comes to vaccines for this pandemic, their choice has been made moot by SCOTUS, whether they like it or not.

BL.

yep. that’s actual rights being taken away from people.

 

[usagora]

It’s interesting how many people post “Angry” tags every time they read something they don’t like, as if the laws of physics and biology will change just because they are angry.

I suppose this was inevitable when educators told us we must respect feelings rather than respecting facts.

What's most annoying to me is not people posting negative reaction emojis, but the fact that many do that and never actually respond in writing to the post they are disagreeing with. It comes across as a passive-aggressive, cop-out way of "responding" to people's posts without actually putting forth the effort to have a rational dialogue. This applies across the board, not just on this topic.

 

[bradl]

yep. that’s actual rights being taken away from people.

No-one said that their individual rights are infinite. They do have limits. In this case, Jacobsen v. Massachusetts holds sway when it comes to "their rights" and "their choice".

It's amazing how many people tend to scream "muh rights!" for this yet have zero knowledge on what their actual rights are.

BL.