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Apple Asks All U.S. Employees to Share Vaccination Status, Still No Mandate
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Thats not how religious exemptions work. You dont need sanction from your religious leaders. I took the vaccine but anyone opposed to fetal tissue use in research could claim religious exemption. Or for whatever reason they want. Religious exemption does not require any outside certification from another religious authority. It is completely personal.
People in the EU who have natural immunity are exempted. Not exempting them is the most anti-science thing currently going right up with vaccines have microchips in them.
All the more reason to get rid of them exemptions…. It would be abused here.
Natural immunity is not as linear or as easy to monitor as mandatory vaccinations. Which is what we need to be safe.
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Completely true and totally irrelevant to the issue I am addressing. I understand, this format makes it hard to follow any specific thread. Happens to me.
Diabetes can be transmitted genetically though, which is a choice. It can also be gained from repeated poor diet choices. Also a choice (or many poor choices)
Why is it hard to measure? What does linear mean in this context?
You determine if people had a vaccine by looking at their card. You determine that people with natural immunity by looking at their positive CV19 test. Why is that hard?
As I have said above, the EU, France, and Israel all recognize natural immunity which continues to far outperform the vaccine. I dont know why people are so rigid in their vaccination thinking. What we want is immunity. Against delta vaccines give us 75-95% immunity. Against delta natural immunity gives us 99% immunity. Thats a great thing! It means people who got CV19 are very protected and we are getting nearer herd immunity. The obsession with vaccines instead of immunity makes me start to wonder what people want out of this. I want to be done with CV19. They seem to either not understand the data or want something else.
Yep, but on top of that if you are fit, exercise regularly, eat well and take care of yourself, the chances of dying are slim. I don't see the media and authorities pushing for health lifestyles. For them, the best thing is to stay indoors, locked in your homes, wear a mask all the time and watch TV all day long.
Fear is an old tool for controlling the masses.
It's completely relevant. Not getting vaccinated affects others. In many ways. Taking up space in a hospital is just one. This is way bigger than people with diabetes or weight problems...which, is what you keep comparing it to. This is a pandemic.
Your levels of immunity are based on time since last vaccine or vaccine booster. You get a booster whenever the scientists say you need it. Simple!
“natural” immunity has more variables. Not withstanding if you actually had COVID-19 in the first place.
A controlled environment would minimize variables. Natural “immunity” is too variable to allow for in this dire situation. And if we were all vaccinated, we wouldn’t EVEN NEED immunity in the first place….
How is a full interview with the director of the CDC out of context?
From the CDC website:
Why should companies have a say in an employees personal heath decisions with unknown long term health consequences? To me, the potential for viral shedding a couple extra days isn’t an adequate reason, and I’m skeptical that part of the “science” will even hold.
But the unvaccinated do? even if you are vaxxed you can spread it. Who are the unvaxxed dangerous to?
If you are vaccinated, the probability of contracting Covid is much smaller than if you were unvaccinated.
The unvaccinated are most dangerous to other unvaccinated people. The longer that the virus continues to be contracted by humans, the more likely it can mutate into another strain. Future strains may not be blocked by current vaccines, so we'll have to keep getting vaccinated.
Correct if you're sick with COVID, vaccinated or not, you should be quarantined until you recover and test negative. Vaccinated people recover faster than unvaccinated people hence they can safely return to work sooner than unvaccinated.
The data on antibiody response is mixed, however antibody responses are a surrogate measure you only use until you have reinfection data. The parallel would be using antibodies to measure vaccine success we use breakthrough cases. We might be interested in that until we have actual data on breath through rates.
The rate of reinfection is around 1% in about 6 studies. I didnt link to the studies, just referenced them, sorry for the confusion. The best and biggest was published by Israel in the past 2 weeks and I think it answers this question to the point it is no longer an unknown. It is now understood science that CV19 reinfection rates are about 1%, and in the Israel data this was 8 times more effective than the vaccine AND people with natural immunity gained no benefit from vaccination. I dont know of any data on refinection rates that contradicts these estimates - but its possible it exists I just dont know about it. If you do I would interested in learning about it since I report on this data professionally.
You linked the Kentucky data. I am going to speak “epidemiology” now, so apologies. This study was done without pre-analysis specification of the scope so it is unknown what data included and not included. It is a study of cases only (a case control study) where everyone had CV19 and so provides no measure of incidence. The study is raw data only and is unadjusted despite unnecessarily using logistic regression to generate confidence intervals. The raw unadjusted data suggests there may be a benefit to getting vaccinated after natural immunity. It contains no information on the incidence of reinfection. So...this studies junk for the question at hand of the reinfection rate. The adjusted cohort data published from Isreal is multiple times bigger, gives incidence data, and says no benefit from vaccination after immunity (again statistically adjusted).
So...the data is not mixed. The Kentucky data is asking with garbage data in a simplistic way if people with immunity should get vaccinated. Based on better estimates the Kentucky data suggests we should vaccinate people to take them from 99% immune to 99.5% immune. Thats not cost effective...thats laughable public health. It will be forgotten as better data like the UK and Israel data is produced.
A conversation everyone needs to be having...
ME: CDC, should I get the poke if I already had Covid?
CDC: “Yes, you should be poked regardless of whether you already had COVID-19. That’s because experts do not yet know how long you are protected from getting sick again after recovering from COVID-19.”
ME: Oh, okay, we don’t know how long natural immunity lasts. Got it. So, how long does poke-induced immunity last?
CDC: “There is still a lot we are learning about COVID-19 pokes and CDC is constantly reviewing evidence and updating guidance. We don’t know how long protection lasts for those who are poked.”
ME: Okay … but wait a second. I thought you said the reason I need the poke was because we don’t know how long my natural immunity lasts, but it seems like you’re saying we ALSO don’t know how long poke immunity lasts either. So, how exactly is the poke immunity better than my natural immunity?
CDC: …
ME: Uh … alright. But, haven’t there been a bunch of studies suggesting that natural immunity could last for years or decades?
CDC: Yes.
NEWYORKTIMES: “Years, maybe even decades, according to a new study.”
ME: Ah. So natural immunity might last longer than poke immunity?
CDC: Possibly. You never know.
ME: Okay. If I get the poke, does that mean I won’t get sick?
BRITAIN: Nope. We are just now entering a seasonal spike and about half of our infections and hospital admissions are poked people.
ME: CDC, is this true? Are there a lot of people in the U.S. catching Covid after getting the poke?
CDC: We stopped tracking breakthrough cases. We accept voluntary reports of breakthroughs but aren’t out there looking for them.
ME: Does that mean that if someone comes in the hospital with Covid, you don’t track them because they’ve been poked? You only track the UN-poked Covid cases?
CDC: That’s right.
ME: Oh, okay. Hmm. Well, if I can still get sick after I get the poke, how is it helping me?
CDC: We never said you wouldn’t get sick. We said it would reduce your chances of serious illness or death.
ME: Oh, sorry. Alright, exactly how much does it reduce my chance of serious illness or death.
CDC: We don’t know “exactly.”
ME: Oh. Then what’s your best estimate for how much risk reduction there is?
CDC: We don’t know, okay? Next question.
ME: Um, if I’m healthy and don’t want the poke, is there any reason I should get it?
CDC: Yes, for the collective.
ME: How does the collective benefit from me getting poked?
CDC: Because you could spread the virus to someone else who might get sick and die.
ME: Can a poked person spread the virus to someone else?
CDC: Yes.
ME: So if I get poked, I could still spread the virus to someone else?
CDC: Yes.
ME: But I thought you just said, the REASON I should get poked was to prevent me spreading the virus? How does that make sense if I can still catch Covid and spread it after getting the poke?
CDC: Never mind that. The other thing is, if you stay unpoked, there’s a chance the virus could possibly mutate into a strain that escapes the pokes protection, putting all poked people at risk.
ME: So the poke stops the virus from mutating?
CDC: No.
ME: So it can still mutate in poked people?
CDC: Yes.
ME: This seems confusing. If the poke doesn’t stop mutations, and it doesn’t stop infections, then how does me getting poked help prevent a more deadly strain from evolving to escape the poke?
CDC: You aren’t listening, okay? The bottom line is: as long as you are unpoked, you pose a threat to poked people.
ME: But what KIND of threat??
CDC: The threat that they could get a serious case of Covid and possibly die.
ME: My brain hurts. Didn’t you JUST say that the poke doesn’t keep people from catching Covid, but prevents a serious case or dying? Now it seems like you’re saying poked people can still easily die from Covid even after they got the poke just by running into an unpoked person! Which is it??
CDC: That’s it, we’re hanging up now.
ME: Wait! I just want to make sure I understand all this. So, even if I ALREADY had Covid, I should STILL get poked, because we don’t know how long natural immunity lasts, and we also don’t know how long poke immunity lasts. And I should get the poke to keep a poked person from catching Covid from me, but even if I get the poke, I can give it to the poked person anyways. And, the other poked person can still easily catch a serious case of Covid from me and die. Do I have all that right?
ME: CDC, should I get the poke if I already had Covid?
CDC: “Yes, you should be poked regardless of whether you already had COVID-19. That’s because experts do not yet know how long you are protected from getting sick again after recovering from COVID-19.”
ME: Oh, okay, we don’t know how long natural immunity lasts. Got it. So, how long does poke-induced immunity last?
CDC: “There is still a lot we are learning about COVID-19 pokes and CDC is constantly reviewing evidence and updating guidance. We don’t know how long protection lasts for those who are poked.”
ME: Okay … but wait a second. I thought you said the reason I need the poke was because we don’t know how long my natural immunity lasts, but it seems like you’re saying we ALSO don’t know how long poke immunity lasts either. So, how exactly is the poke immunity better than my natural immunity?
CDC: …
ME: Uh … alright. But, haven’t there been a bunch of studies suggesting that natural immunity could last for years or decades?
CDC: Yes.
NEWYORKTIMES: “Years, maybe even decades, according to a new study.”
ME: Ah. So natural immunity might last longer than poke immunity?
CDC: Possibly. You never know.
ME: Okay. If I get the poke, does that mean I won’t get sick?
BRITAIN: Nope. We are just now entering a seasonal spike and about half of our infections and hospital admissions are poked people.
ME: CDC, is this true? Are there a lot of people in the U.S. catching Covid after getting the poke?
CDC: We stopped tracking breakthrough cases. We accept voluntary reports of breakthroughs but aren’t out there looking for them.
ME: Does that mean that if someone comes in the hospital with Covid, you don’t track them because they’ve been poked? You only track the UN-poked Covid cases?
CDC: That’s right.
ME: Oh, okay. Hmm. Well, if I can still get sick after I get the poke, how is it helping me?
CDC: We never said you wouldn’t get sick. We said it would reduce your chances of serious illness or death.
ME: Oh, sorry. Alright, exactly how much does it reduce my chance of serious illness or death.
CDC: We don’t know “exactly.”
ME: Oh. Then what’s your best estimate for how much risk reduction there is?
CDC: We don’t know, okay? Next question.
ME: Um, if I’m healthy and don’t want the poke, is there any reason I should get it?
CDC: Yes, for the collective.
ME: How does the collective benefit from me getting poked?
CDC: Because you could spread the virus to someone else who might get sick and die.
ME: Can a poked person spread the virus to someone else?
CDC: Yes.
ME: So if I get poked, I could still spread the virus to someone else?
CDC: Yes.
ME: But I thought you just said, the REASON I should get poked was to prevent me spreading the virus? How does that make sense if I can still catch Covid and spread it after getting the poke?
CDC: Never mind that. The other thing is, if you stay unpoked, there’s a chance the virus could possibly mutate into a strain that escapes the pokes protection, putting all poked people at risk.
ME: So the poke stops the virus from mutating?
CDC: No.
ME: So it can still mutate in poked people?
CDC: Yes.
ME: This seems confusing. If the poke doesn’t stop mutations, and it doesn’t stop infections, then how does me getting poked help prevent a more deadly strain from evolving to escape the poke?
CDC: You aren’t listening, okay? The bottom line is: as long as you are unpoked, you pose a threat to poked people.
ME: But what KIND of threat??
CDC: The threat that they could get a serious case of Covid and possibly die.
ME: My brain hurts. Didn’t you JUST say that the poke doesn’t keep people from catching Covid, but prevents a serious case or dying? Now it seems like you’re saying poked people can still easily die from Covid even after they got the poke just by running into an unpoked person! Which is it??
CDC: That’s it, we’re hanging up now.
ME: Wait! I just want to make sure I understand all this. So, even if I ALREADY had Covid, I should STILL get poked, because we don’t know how long natural immunity lasts, and we also don’t know how long poke immunity lasts. And I should get the poke to keep a poked person from catching Covid from me, but even if I get the poke, I can give it to the poked person anyways. And, the other poked person can still easily catch a serious case of Covid from me and die. Do I have all that right?
Realistically this ship has already sailed. Only rich 1st world countries will complete vaccination in any time period to meaningfully impact mutation rates...if that were to even happen. We might be better off only giving US citizens one dose and sending the rest to other nations if mutation is your primary concern.
Define “deadly”
Drs Ioannidis & Axfors at Stanford Age Infection Survival Rate:
0-19: 99.9973%
20-29: 99.986%
30-39: 99.969%
40-49: 99.918%
50-59: 99.73%
60-69: 99.41%
70+: 97.6% (non-inst.)
70+: 94.5% (all)
Source (preprint awaiting peer-review): https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.08.21260210v1
Drs Ioannidis had a prior article published on WHO’s website stating a similar outcome.
Fear Porn be alive. 😂
Why are you comparing a respirator virus to other forms such as the ones that cause polio and small pox, flawed logic. With that thought process we would have eradicated the flu virus but we have yearly flu vaccines that are not very effective for most and vary depending on season.
Getting covid is not voluntary while getting in a car is. And the rate of people getting sick from covid right now is
about 97% unvaccinated vs vaccinated.
maybe so but the unvaccinated are responsible for the variants and clogging up the hospital system.