Apple Backpedals, Puts "All Eligible Products" Back on EPEAT Environmental Registry

[samcraig]

It was a choice, a choice that was skewered thanks to the pressure of the press and the San Francisco's government's silly requirements. This is not an FCC regulation. It's simply an environmental certification which is totally optional and not obligatory.

Pressure from the press?

They reported that Apple withdrew their products. Look - Apple didn't need to withdraw all of their toys from the sandbox. Apple chose to do that. Many were still EPEAT compliant.

And yes - you finally get it - it's totally optional and not obligatory. Which means that Apple can do whatever it wants. And right now - they believe it's better to be certified than not.

 

[johncrab]

Too bad they gave in to this specsmanship scam.

 

[Glideslope]

Apple realized they still had to pay the protection Money to EPEAT.

Yup. Now Tim can relax at the summit.

 

[Rend It]

No one knows for a fact that Apple is helping write the new EPEAT standards. I don't want to jump to that conclusion. I would rather go with the information that we know, and that is that Apple withdrew because the EPEAT standards were outdated in the eyes of Apple.
If they help draft new rules, great.

No one knows for a fact?

http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2012/07/11/apple-working-to-refresh-the-green-pc-standards-

As far as Mr. Mansfield's reversal-they should have held their course. Withdraw, and build machines that not only meet, but exceed all the standards. It's not a bad thing to be a stubborn ass sometimes and hold your ground.

Why would Apple remove any products if they meet and exceed "all" standards, as you put it? And in what universe is your judgment of what Apple should do better than Mr. Mansfield's?

 

[dagamer34]

No one knows for a fact that Apple is helping write the new EPEAT standards. I don't want to jump to that conclusion. I would rather go with the information that we know, and that is that Apple withdrew because the EPEAT standards were outdated in the eyes of Apple.
If they help draft new rules, great.
As far as Mr. Mansfield's reversal-they should have held their course. Withdraw, and build machines that not only meet, but exceed all the standards. It's not a bad thing to be a stubborn ass sometimes and hold your ground.

It's not a standard if you make it up yourself.

 

[UnSainted]

Reason

I wonder if Al Gore being on the board had any bearing on this?

 

[Icaras]

Pressure from the press?

They reported that Apple withdrew their products. Look - Apple didn't need to withdraw all of their toys from the sandbox. Apple chose to do that. Many were still EPEAT compliant.

And yes - you finally get it - it's totally optional and not obligatory. Which means that Apple can do whatever it wants. And right now - they believe it's better to be certified than not.

You're the one calling Apple a fool. So if Apple didn't reverse their decision today, how does that make Apple a fool? Because in your eyes, you've already assumed it was the wrong decision, right?

 

[Bheleu]

So how do we know for sure the batteries can't be removed for recycling then? Or are people suggesting iFixit is more reliable than EPEAT when it comes to determining the recyclability of a product?

If they are using Hide Glue, it could come loose relatively easily for repair / replacement. If they are using PVA, heat and steam is required. Who knows what was used? The fact is you can carry it to Apple for repair, and I doubt they have too much trouble replaceing the battery (provided most techs go to the back room with it, so you do not see them whack it with a hammer or give it a steam bath).

From wiki:
"Hide glue sticks to itself, so the repairer can apply new hide glue to the joint and reclamp it. In contrast, PVA glues do not adhere to themselves once they are cured, so a successful repair requires removal of the old glue first – which usually requires removing some of the material being glued.

Hide glue creates a somewhat brittle joint, so a strong shock will often cause a very clean break along the joint. In contrast, a joint glued with PVA will usually break the surrounding material, creating an irregular, difficult to repair break. This brittleness is taken advantage of by instrument makers. For example, instruments in the violin family require periodic disassembly for repairs and maintenance. The top of a violin is easily removed by prying a palette knife between the top and ribs, and running it all around the joint. The brittleness allows the top to be removed, often without significant damage to the wood. Regluing the top only requires applying new hot hide glue to the joint. If the violin top were glued on with PVA glue, removing the top would require heat and steam to disassemble the joint (causing damage to the varnish), then wood would have to be removed from the joint to ensure no cured PVA glue was remaining before regluing the top."

 

[Mad-B-One]

If the standard is aiming to certify how easy it is to "recycle" a product, your ability to take it apart is a bit irrelevant. This may help people extend the useful product life, which I guess is good for the environment, but this is not necessarily the purview of this certificate. I also don't know how many people actually replace HDD, RAM etc. even if it is easy, so overall impact on the environment may be fairly low in the end.

But it isn't. It is also warranting a life cycle from up to 5 years with easy-to-do repairs. It goes kinda hand-in-hand though. rMBP clearly stretches that definition. It is not about that Apple wouldn't replace or repair, it is about that material is hard to take appart. If you want to see why, look at the teardown.

 

[AppleInLVX]

Actually quite interesting. It isn't often Apple needs to backtrack, so it's intriguing to note the circumstances under which it happens. Apple's always been the sort to do what it thinks is best and damn the torpedoes. I've seen them drop ideas that didn't work (ping being the most recent) but they seldom back down. I suppose this goes to show that if enough people say "well, we're not buying stuff" it's good enough. Power of the buck resides squarely at the intersection of liberal arts and technology.

I wonder if SF told them that unless they made the batteries replaceable they wouldn't buy them anymore if we'd see the return of the battery pack.

 

[ixodes]

Oh my, the almighty Apple eats crow. Takes big hits in the press and caves...

 

[kazmac]

wow

Well, I can certainly sympathize: for all times I almost bought a mac and returned it in the last year. I know this isn't the same thing but I got a little chuckle out of the headline.

I'm glad Apple is going to work on the EPEAT issue, I wonder if this means they might hold off on ditching the user-upgradable macs for just a little bit longer?

 

[samcraig]

You're the one calling Apple a fool. So if Apple didn't reverse their decision today, how does that make Apple a fool? Because in your eyes, you've already assumed it was the wrong decision, right?

I didn't call Apple a fool. Where did I do that. I just said they took their toys home. It's an accurate statement.

It's not a right or wrong decision for me. I don't care if they are EPEAT certified or not because I don't base my purchases on that standard.

Apple, being a corporate entity, examined the pros and cons of their decision and changed their mind. I didn't use the word backpeddle. I didn't say they blew it. The simply decided that the best move for them was to remain in the program.

Stop applying emotions to my post that aren't there. If you're heated about the situation - which it sounds like you are - don't project that onto me. That's your issue.

 

[ixodes]

I wonder if this means they might hold off on ditching the user-upgradable macs for just a little bit longer?

I'd sure like to think they will, but given the profit and how easily everyone accepted being moved up-market with the more expensive MBPr, I doubt Apple will use a reasonable approach.

 

[nagromme]

It never made sense to pull the eligible products. Even if the standards don’t get updated, there will be some eligible Apple products for a long time to come I would think.

And Apple could let some “legacy” models hang around just for government use. The same way the glass-front eMac hung around even after the iMac surpassed it in most ways: schools seemingly didn’t want soft LCDs. Ditto for various low-end Macs that have sometimes been kept just for education.

 

[ixodes]

I wonder if Al Gore being on the board had any bearing on this?

With his massive carbon footprint, and that obscenely dirty jet, he's too busy living large and looking down on the commoners. He's a perfect match for Apple as he practices hypocrisy with the same level of skill and cunning.

 

[noisycats]

Apple pulls away and EPEAT realizes it better update their judging proccess

Exactly. So many bemoan that Apple is 'waffling' or succumbing to pressure or is otherwise without principle. Then others blame it for not using its power or influence to change the system. Guess what folks? It was all part of the plan and strategy from the start. Apple did use its market position. Hell, it even risked its market position to get EPEAT to "modernize".

Which raises another gripe. So many here were blaming Apple's design philosophy and direction. "Too thin" "Hates the planet" "Willing to sacrifice puppies on the alter of innovation" "The rMBP is blame" "The Air is to blame" "It's because you can't upgrade em" "Its the glue!!!" Ad nauseum.

All the screamers were wrong. Apple pulled its products because it could, and it was the best card it could play.

People just love to hate Apple.

 

[Icaras]

I didn't call Apple a fool. Where did I do that. I just said they took their toys home. It's an accurate statement.

Apologies. I misquoted you. That reply was meant for MacIdiot, who had labeled Apple as a fool.

IIt's not a right or wrong decision for me. I don't care if they are EPEAT certified or not because I don't base my purchases on that standard.

Apple, being a corporate entity, examined the pros and cons of their decision and changed their mind. I didn't use the word backpeddle. I didn't say they blew it. The simply decided that the best move for them was to remain in the program.

Stop applying emotions to my post that aren't there. If you're heated about the situation - which it sounds like you are - don't project that onto me. That's your issue.

Emotions? I pretty much agree to everything you just said, which is Apple can do whatever it wants. What emotions were directed at you?

And the fact is, they made a conscious decision to withdraw themselves from EPEAT, not the other way around.

Btw, I get that some products that are still eligible and are back on EPEAT. I'm speaking about future products.

 

[baruch]

Wow...Apple listened. Now I wish they'd listen on a few other issues like...finding ways to lower the toxicity if their products both during manufacturing and in use, bringing jobs back to the US, and please stop this direction of making the Mac OS more like the iPad or iPhone.

 

[Mad-B-One]

Who decided iFixit is the authority on such things? And how many average joes need to be able to take apart their laptops and tinker with them. How many as compared to those who want thinner and lighter designs? Apple's customer base is not iFixit or hobbyist geeks.

Define authority: Authority (from the Latin auctoritas) is a right conferred by recognized social position (Wikipedia).

MacRumors and many other see iFixit as the authority on the internet for teardowns. They are a renown company for that, not just hobbyists and geeks. Not glueing the batty a way you cannot replace it does not make the rMBP thicker at all on that note. So, what are you actually stating? It's okay to be wasteful as long as you have some estatic benefit? If that would be true, no one would buy hybrid cars. They are usually more expensive - especially if you don't drive a lot. Sure, driving a lot, you will save on your gasoline bill...

 

[GREEN4U]

How come they don't listen to outcries for a smaller bezel.

 

[luqtotheman]

apple culture

Apple can't forget it roots

San Francisco, bay area, palo alto all places where people are loyal to apple and are pretty progressive towards issue like the environment.

 

[xxundrclssherox]

I would have had more respect for AAPL if they had held their ground...very strange move

Holding their ground means losing major customers, like state/federal government and most corporate companies like Ford, etc since they have to have 95% EPEAT certified products. Holding their ground means losing money, which is foolish and not something stakeholders would like. This would be a lose-lose situation if Apple would've held their ground. You have to think of this from a green and business perspective.
Mac's are not cheap, giving a customer another reason not to buy it would be a shame, since the products are of high quality and part of the top products in the industry. I'm sure Apple will just make a tool for the Retina Macbook Pro to more easily separate the battery from the top case to better recycle the materials (if they haven't already done so). Apple backpedaled because business-wise and environmentally they don't want to lose that many customers.

 

[mono1980]

I cannot stand waffling.
"Oh we made a decision. Oh, people are getting angry, let's change our decision."
Screw that. For better or for worse, make a choice and stick to it.
Finally, I hope Apple never lets these EPEAT standards dictate what they can or cannot do as far as product design.

Sorry, but having the humility to admit that you made a mistake is a good thing.

 

[b0fh]

I would have had more respect for AAPL if they had held their ground...very strange move

Why fight when you have won?

1) EPEAT has now publicly stated that their standards are outdated and they will work with Apple to revise it
2) *ALL* current Apple products that qualify for EPEAT are on the EPEAT list.

What else are they fighting for?