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That kinda sucks for the millions of people who were born and died in the years before Jesus, huh? Everything that Noah went through and he's still damned!
I thought there was an opt out clause for anyone who doesn't know about Jesus/god. Well, certainly a lot of people believe that.

"If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin.— John 15:22"

Which is why aborted foetuses supposedly go to heaven. Which is why abortion is doing them a favour! Fast tracked to heaven, lucky little scamps.

Also would mean that missionaries are absolutely the worst; by spreading their faith they're condemning massive swathes of people to eternal damnation? :/

The alternative, that the ignorant are damned, is even more horrendous though, and would show a seriously egotistical streak in a supposedly forgiving and understanding deity. How can you punish someone for something they have absolutely no control over?
 
Calling out people's prejudices is not bigotry or oppression, it is being percipient.

Yes, you decided that others opinion is prejudice and you can call the names. Where's the equality and tolerance then? Why no respect to other people? Or you want equality, respect and tolerance only for yourself? How are you better then than your opponents?
 
Maybe Apple should practice what they preach. Apple's current leadership includes 15 White Males and 3 Women. There is just one non-White person in their executive profile. Not exactly pushing the equality agenda. Apparently it's ok to be gay but not so good if your Black, Asian, Latino, Chinese or any other ethnic group.
Does Apple preach Affirmative Action? I think they do. If so, they should not preach Affirmative Action.
 
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They could do both. Besides, this isn't politics. It's common decency, a concept that seems to be too much for some people to comprehend.
The only thing I'm afraid of is that it could BE politics. "Stuff" can happen when good-intentioned laws are made to try and stop unfair discrimination. People end up being wrongfully accused.

Also, you know it's potentially political when the major U.S. political parties choose their own stances on it.
 
Which is why aborted foetuses supposedly go to heaven. Which is why abortion is doing them a favour! Fast tracked to heaven, lucky little scamps.

Acccuuuaalllly, according to the Bible, fetuses don't have souls. Breath is life, and the soul is defined as the breath of God given to man, which enters the body at first breath. If something's never breathed, then something doesn't have a soul, and if something doesn't have a soul, then it's not a human being according to the Bible.

So by Christine doctrine, abortion isn't murder at all. It doesn't address the subject directly, but it does mention forcing a miscarriage through "mischief" as being a crime worthy of nothing more than a fine. Like property damage, basically. It's pretty nonchalant about the rights of the unborn, all things considered.

BUT ANYWAY...
 
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The only thing I'm afraid of is that it could BE politics. "Stuff" can happen when good-intentioned laws are made to try and stop unfair discrimination. People end up being wrongfully accused.

Also, you know it's potentially political when the major U.S. political parties choose their own stances on it.
Only because one party chose the stance of bigotry. It shouldn't be political. As for your other concerns, we already protect gender, race, religion, and a slew of other categories. Worrying about potential false accusations is a weak sauce argument to allow legal discrimination of people. Just remember this: because there is no federal protection, gay people in more than half of states can marry on Sunday and legally be fired from work on Monday for no reason other than their boss doesn't like gay people. This needs to end.
 
I'm not exactly an atheist, not exactly religious either, but Calvinists are the funniest of the funny, let me tell you.

So no man seeks God on his own, but God has already chosen those who will eventually seek God to be saved. Therefore, the whole process of proselytizing for the sake of another's soul is a moot point, since it's already determined beforehand who will do what. Predestination contradicts the concept of free will, throws into question the idea of a loving God, and negates Christ dying on the cross to forgive the sins of mankind. It makes existence nothing more than an elaborate play put on for the sake of one entity.

What's the point of anything if we're just automatons running through a preset program. Why would a loving God create billions upon billions of creatures solely for the purpose of doubting His plan, destined to suffer in eternal damnation? If there's no choice, then there's no reason for any of it.

Great questions. I've heard them all before. I'll address as much as I can:

Evangelism is not a moot point. God works through and uses His chosen people to build his kingdom. 2 Timothy 2:10 says ""Therefore, I endure everything for the sake of the elect, that they too may obtain the salvation that is in Christ Jesus, with eternal glory." How great is it knowing that God is in complete control of whether or not someone is saved. It's not our own doing, but we plant the seeds.

As for your question "why would a loving God create only to destroy?" that is a lofty question with an answer we might never know. Deuteronomy 29:29 says “The secret things belong to the Lord our God, but the things that are revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may do all the words of this law."

Having faith in God is a miraculous thing in it of itself. There's no way I came to it myself. God could've only revealed Himself to me by His choosing. I am a pretty rational person. I am a scientist, as a matter of fact. I can't explain why I believe in God other than that I believe what the Bible says and I know I love Him.
 
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I thought there was an opt out clause for anyone who doesn't know about Jesus/god. Well, certainly a lot of people believe that.

"If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin.— John 15:22"

Which is why aborted foetuses supposedly go to heaven. Which is why abortion is doing them a favour! Fast tracked to heaven, lucky little scamps.

Also would mean that missionaries are absolutely the worst; by spreading their faith they're condemning massive swathes of people to eternal damnation? :/

The alternative, that the ignorant are damned, is even more horrendous though, and would show a seriously egotistical streak in a supposedly forgiving and understanding deity. How can you punish someone for something they have absolutely no control over?

I think everyone in the world has heard of Jesus Christ. But still for an omnipresent, omnipotent being you'd have expected him to let everyone in the world know about him regardless.
 
Aren't the audits a good thing? Why are they unpopular?

Well doing them is probably worthwhile, what's pointless is publishing them. Because publishing them merely makes Apple look bad because it highlights issues in the supply chain.
 
Well, if Apple is so concerned on politics and lobbying, I'm sure they'll have something to say about the Planned Parenthood videos. Or maybe it's not convenient for Apple to express your opinion about it? Money, money, money. As Depeche Mode used to sing, "everything counts in large amounts". That's the Apple motto nowadays (well, except for the Watch, that is)
 
Only because one party chose the stance of bigotry. It shouldn't be political. As for your other concerns, we already protect gender, race, religion, and a slew of other categories.
With what, gender and race quotas in public and private employment and education? And witch hunts for "racists" and "sexists"? I haven't bothered checking all the details of the bill, but in general, there is a reason besides bigotry as to why this topic is political. I can see why there should be legal protection, but it has to be done carefully.
 
Well, if Apple is so concerned on politics and lobbying, I'm sure they'll have something to say about the Planned Parenthood videos. Or maybe it's not convenient for Apple to express your opinion about it? Money, money, money. As Depeche Mode used to sing, "everything counts in large amounts". That's the Apple motto nowadays (well, except for the Watch, that is)
Oh look, another person who only reads headlines and has only surface level knowledge of any given topic but will argue their uneducated opinion to the death as if it's a fact.

And as for the Watch, you WISH you could fail like that.
 
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With what, gender and race quotas in public and private employment and education?
That's actually completely unrelated to the civil rights act of 1964. We're talking about banning discrimination in housing, public establishments, and employment based on certain protected categories. This has nothing to do whatsoever with affirmative action or quotas that you speak of. Please educate yourself before attempting to debate things.
 
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That's actually completely unrelated to the civil rights act of 1964. We're talking about banning discrimination in housing, public establishments, and employment based on certain protected categories. This has nothing to do whatsoever with affirmative action or quotas that you speak of. Please educate yourself before attempting to debate things.
Please mention the Civil Rights Act of 1964 if that's what you're referring to. You seemed to refer to anti-discrimination in general.
 
Please mention the Civil Rights Act of 1964 if that's what you're referring to. You seemed to refer to anti-discrimination in general.
That's the topic of this entire thread and the general discussion, didn't feel the need to specify it. The bill that apple is supporting is basically an addition to the civil rights act of 1964 to add sexual orientation to the list. You live in California, it's already that way there. I live in NJ, it's like that here too. Nothing changes in our states. This is only for the states that choose to allow discrimination based on sexual orientation, they will no longer be allowed to do so.
 
Yes, you decided that others opinion is prejudice and you can call the names. Where's the equality and tolerance then? Why no respect to other people? Or you want equality, respect and tolerance only for yourself? How are you better then than your opponents?
I honestly can't believe you can't see that stopping people from discriminating against gay people is not "intolerance".

You obviously can't tell the difference between what someone "believes" and what someone "is" and how their rights are determined as a result.
 
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Well, if Apple is so concerned on politics and lobbying, I'm sure they'll have something to say about the Planned Parenthood videos. Or maybe it's not convenient for Apple to express your opinion about it? Money, money, money. As Depeche Mode used to sing, "everything counts in large amounts". That's the Apple motto nowadays (well, except for the Watch, that is)

What about it?
 
It's probably time to repeal all discrimination laws not make new ones. The burden of an enforcement now exceeds the benefit in a largely egalitarian society. Sure some would discriminate but laws don't exist to make us feel good they exist and regulations are created and enforcement carried out which all has a cost. The cost is too high then the law no longer serves benefit, especially in a world where such discrimination just is not that common.

But my hope above is about as likely as riding a unicorn so my position devolves to: no more new discrimination laws.
 
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It's probably time to repeal all discrimination laws not make new ones. The burden of an enforcement now exceeds the benefit in a largely egalitarian society. Sure some would discriminate but laws don't exist to make us feel good they exist and regulations are created and enforcement carried out which all has a cost. The cost is too high then the law no longer serves benefit, especially in a world where such discrimination just is not that common.

But my hope above is about as likely as riding a unicorn so my position devolves to: no more new discrimination laws.
So gay people should be legally open to discrimination in all aspects of life because enforcement of laws "burdens" you? Try reading your post back to yourself. Sounds pretty narcissistic.
 
It's probably time to repeal all discrimination laws not make new ones. The burden of an enforcement now exceeds the benefit in a largely egalitarian society. Sure some would discriminate but laws don't exist to make us feel good they exist and regulations are created and enforcement carried out which all has a cost. The cost is too high then the law no longer serves benefit, especially in a world where such discrimination just is not that common.

But my hope above is about as likely as riding a unicorn so my position devolves to: no more new discrimination laws.

What is the cost of discrimination law?
 
I honestly can't believe you can't see that stopping people from discriminating against gay people is not "intolerance".

You obviously can't tell the difference between what someone "believes" and what someone "is" and how their rights are determined as a result.
I don't speak about discriminating someone. I speak about hate. That original sentence was hate directed at anyone who just doesn't agree with specific point of view.

If you want to stop discrimination then stop it with respect and try to defend your views with argumentation, not attacks. Otherwise it's just a war for distinction until there will be left only one "right" point of view. Beautiful world. Resembles me something. Meanwhile they hate you, you hate them. Both call each other Neanderthals instead of discussing. Also a nice place to live in.
 
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