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Unless you can show us a statistically relevant number of users that could fully replace their desktop or notebook with an iPad, you have to admit that the other poster was right with what he said. Until then, iOS devices are in the same league as gaming consoles, pocket calculators, toasters and mp3 players -- all of them are nice and useful gadgets, but none of them can replace a "real" computer.

I'm inclined to agree. Tablet or not, you're still tied at the hip to a computer; the iPad, however great or magical it may be, cannot replace traditional PC usage for a large percentage of users. It's an add on... it augments, not replaces.
 
Unless you can show us a statistically relevant number of users that could fully replace their desktop or notebook with an iPad, you have to admit that the other poster was right with what he said. Until then, iOS devices are in the same league as gaming consoles, pocket calculators, toasters and mp3 players -- all of them are nice and useful gadgets, but none of them can replace a "real" computer.

You forgot blenders! Very important.

BTW: A question never answered!
 
Unless you can show us a statistically relevant number of users that could fully replace their desktop or notebook with an iPad, you have to admit that the other poster was right with what he said. Until then, iOS devices are in the same league as gaming consoles, pocket calculators, toasters and mp3 players -- all of them are nice and useful gadgets, but none of them can replace a "real" computer.

Not sure why you got voted down for that.

Now that you can update the OS on the device itself it's probably a valid "computer" for people who don't want to use a computer. I find it a great laptop replacement for my needs but it can't replace my iMac or gaming PC.
 
I think the real growth is going to come from China. The current stock price could seem crazy low a year from now. Good time for Apple really.
 
Can we have some source for this?

He said he was pretty sure, not certain, so no source needed. :p

Every night I see PC World adverts selling £399 laptops with free gifts and £50 cash back, yet Apple still compete. Not to mention the recession.

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I'm inclined to agree. Tablet or not, you're still tied at the hip to a computer; the iPad, however great or magical it may be, cannot replace traditional PC usage for a large percentage of users. It's an add on... it augments, not replaces.

Really?
 
Unless you can show us a statistically relevant number of users that could fully replace their desktop or notebook with an iPad, you have to admit that the other poster was right with what he said. Until then, iOS devices are in the same league as gaming consoles, pocket calculators, toasters and mp3 players -- all of them are nice and useful gadgets, but none of them can replace a "real" computer.

Aside from toasters (mine are still mechanical/electrical, not computerized), all of those are real computers including all iOS devices. What you guys mean are Office/Home PCs.

Computer is a very generic term.
 
Some would argue with you.

http://www.displaysearch.com/cps/rd...pc_market_share_position_from_hp_in_q2_11.asp

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1214677/

Apple Retakes Top Mobile PC Market Share Position from HP in Q2’11

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Tablet PC Shipments Fuel Apple’s 136% Y/Y Mobile PC Growth; Lead on HP Nearly 4 Million Units

SANTA CLARA, CALIF., August 18, 2011—Apple shipped over 13.5 million mobile PCs in Q2’11 for 136% Y/Y shipment growth, overtaking HP for the top spot, according to preliminary results from the latest DisplaySearch Quarterly Mobile PC Shipment and Forecast Report. Nearly 80% of Apple’s mobile PC shipments were iPads, which reached over 10.7 million units, for 107% Y/Y growth. Apple’s total mobile PC shipments (notebook and tablet PCs) were 3.9 million units more than HP’s nearly 9.7 million units for the quarter.

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http://www.canalys.com/newsroom/worldwide-pc-market-7-pads-fuel-growth

Worldwide PC market up 7% as pads fuel growth

- Apple cements its position amongst top 5 PC vendors

Palo Alto, Singapore and Reading (UK) – Thursday, 28 April 2011.

Canalys today announced that the PC market grew 7% in Q1 2011, as the pad market, led by Apple’s iPad, continued to bolster growth. Once again, Apple set the standard in the pad market, mainly at the expense of notebook and netbook shipments, as pads competed for a share of consumer IT spend.

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‘Taking into consideration the iPad’s ‘halo effect’ on the company’s other products, Apple has grown considerably in most markets worldwide,’ said Canalys Analyst Tim Coulling. ‘As the iPad 2 and its competitors continue to roll out, we expect pad sales to propel PC market growth for the rest of the year.’

The findings of a recent consumer survey by Canalys show that current pad usage resembles that of a PC, rather than a media player or e-book reader. After web browsing, both pad owners and non-owners in Western Europe, linked pad usage to e-mail/messaging and social networking. Among pad owners, all three categories rated much higher than e-book reading and video watching. Non-owners, however, expected e-mail/messaging, e-book reading, and video watching to top pad usage after web browsing.[1]

At least 10% of Western European pad owners surveyed by Canalys claimed to use over 24 different application categories, spread across communications, entertainment, leisure/lifestyle and financial/business. Educational apps were the only exception, only used by about 8% of pad owners.

iPad owners used a significantly wider range of categories than other pad users. The most popular apps among non-iPad owners tended to be relatively functional ones, such as e-mail, social networking, news and banking. While iPad owners also used these apps, they reported a much higher use of general web browsing and video consumption.

Feedback from potential pad owners shows how pad marketing campaigns, some of which refer to the devices as ‘media tablets’, have influenced their perceptions. In reality, pads have a wide range of uses. While browsing, for example, does include finding and consuming content, it also includes many other activities.

‘This broad usage pattern reinforces the pad’s role as a general-purpose computing device, and much more than just a consumption device,’ said Coulling. ‘The pad represents a real threat to PC and consumer electronics vendors, as it is capable of replacing devices in a range of other categories.’

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The winds of change . . .

Then of course some Android phones have more RAM, higher resolution screens and faster CPUs than iPads and therefore should be counted as "mobile PCs" as well, right? And unlike iOS, Android even comes with real file system.
 
Waiting for the day Apple is > DeLL in all markets.

I would consider that sweet success as well.

With Dell dropping by 10% and Apple growing by nearly 20% and only a 2% gap between them, it may happen soon.

Given that this chart is based on UNITS sold and not profits made, Apple is making far more money than Dell currently; which is even a better measure of success.
 
Then of course some Android phones have more RAM, higher resolution screens and faster CPUs than iPads and therefore should be counted as "mobile PCs" as well, right? And unlike iOS, Android even comes with real file system.

Depends on why you are counting.
 
Unless you can show us a statistically relevant number of users that could fully replace their desktop or notebook with an iPad, you have to admit that the other poster was right with what he said. Until then, iOS devices are in the same league as gaming consoles, pocket calculators, toasters and mp3 players -- all of them are nice and useful gadgets, but none of them can replace a "real" computer.

you can record/edit video and photos from iOS.
you can record and make real actual music from iOS.
you can print from iOS.
you can browse the internet with iOS.
you can use an external display, external keyboard with iOS.
you can play games with iOS.
you can watch/rent/buy videos/music from iOS.
you can create and present slide shows and keynotes from iOS.

What is there that you can do on a real computer that you cant do on say an iPad? Obviously with the exception of an Optical Drive and sheer power of "real" computers there is not much difference there.
 
Originally Posted by Winni
Unless you can show us a statistically relevant number of users that could fully replace their desktop or notebook with an iPad, you have to admit that the other poster was right with what he said. Until then, iOS devices are in the same league as gaming consoles, pocket calculators, toasters and mp3 players -- all of them are nice and useful gadgets, but none of them can replace a "real" computer.

The evidence is right there on the chart. The manufacturer that jumped on the netPC bandwagon fell 45% due to the iPad. That's some "statistically relevant" numbers.
 
Unless you can show us a statistically relevant number of users that could fully replace their desktop or notebook with an iPad, you have to admit that the other poster was right with what he said. Until then, iOS devices are in the same league as gaming consoles, pocket calculators, toasters and mp3 players -- all of them are nice and useful gadgets, but none of them can replace a "real" computer.
Can you prove to anyone that people would need a desktop computer and a laptop? Can you prove that someone with a desktop at home really needs to take a personal laptop with them on a trip? I think this really comes down to personal preference.

I used to have a MBP but I found that I did not need to take it with me on trips once I got an iPhone 3G. I could email and search the web just fine with it saving me extra bulk to carry on the plane or through airport security. One thing that I did miss was having a larger screen but the iPad solved that problem.

I gave my MBP to my mother and now I just have an iPhone 4S and iPad 2 with me on my travels. I can do everything I need to on the iPad or iPhone and if I need to access more information, I can alway connect back home to my iMac at home whenever I need to.

An iPad will not replace your computer if you only have a laptop but it can replace the need for a laptop for portability allowing you to have a desktop at home.

Also, check out 7o7munoz7o7's post as it perfectly illustrates how you can use an iPad independent of a computer to create content.
 
you can record/edit video and photos from iOS.
you can record and make real actual music from iOS.
you can print from iOS.
you can browse the internet with iOS.
you can use an external display, external keyboard with iOS.
you can play games with iOS.
you can watch/rent/buy videos/music from iOS.
you can create and present slide shows and keynotes from iOS.

What is there that you can do on a real computer that you cant do on say an iPad? Obviously with the exception of an Optical Drive and sheer power of "real" computers there is not much difference there.

Sure you can. You just don't want to. 10" screen alone disqualifies iPad as a PC. And there are other things like the lack of file system, missing any facilities for development/execution of applications by users.
 
Stats can be shown and manipulated to mean anything.

And as we can see on this thread - so can interpretations and justifications.

But by all means - continue...
 
Then of course some Android phones have more RAM, higher resolution screens and faster CPUs than iPads and therefore should be counted as "mobile PCs" as well, right? And unlike iOS, Android even comes with real file system.
Faster CPU? The proof is in the benchmarks, not clock speed. What about GPU performance? Higher resolution? Some of those displays are using Pentile technology which is actually a "cheat" producing fuzzy output. More ram? That's because Android is a pig. Despite the more RAM and faster clock speeds, they still have the characteristic "android lag" in the UI and they still do not have low latency audio which means that you will not see apps like Garageband or Amplitube iRig on Android anytime soon.
http://www.ikmultimedia.com/irig/features/

@samcraig: Are you really that delusional or are you simply a paid shill working for google?

@lilo777: What are you talking about there being no filesystem? It uses the same filesystem as OS X but there is a BSD jail on each third party process. Apple is implementing similar filesystem sandboxing on Mac App store guidelines. Anyone who has ever jailbroken an iOS device knows that the file system is there and exactly the same as OS X.

lilo777, I have a question for you, are you aware that Android lacks low latency audio and because of that, you cannot have guitar amps and realtime recording of music tracks on android devices?
 
Can we have some source for this?

I can't point you at a link. But it's not hard to arrive at reasonable guesses if you do a little work.

HP's personal systems group posts has an annual profit figure.
Divide that by the number of PCs sold annually and you get an average profit per device. It's reasonable to guess that the profit on a netbook is about half the average

For Apple's iPad there are two ways to go.
One is looking at the tear-down estimates of iPad build costs vs. the retail price.
The other is look at Apple's overall profitability and Apply that to the average retail price.

However you do the numbers, the profit on an iPad appears to be at least ten times the amount on a netbook.

C.
 
The largely pointless market share stat looks impressive here, but pales in significance when compared with the really useful bottom line! As with their iPhone and iPad results, Apple canes the rest when it comes to the amount of net profit they cull from sales.

Windows PC OEMs remain in a terminal race to the bottom price wise, and therefore in net profits. The result is inadequate resources to invest in R&D - and it shows, with everyone and his dog waiting for the next successful Apple design and then shamelessly trying to rip it off!

But where this process has basically taken some 30 years to reach the current situation for Windows PC manufacturers, the 20 or so mobile phone manufacturers in the Android OHA have reached almost terminal velocity in just 3 years! Interesting business model you have there Google!

HP has already killed Palm. Dell is irrelevant. RIM is struggling, Microsoft has set in motion the process that will surely kill Nokia, and Amazon doesn't have a global strategy - or release sales figures. How long before HTC, Sony, Toshiba and Samsung are the only ones left of the OHA retailing mobile devices to the west?

Second attempt to post this comment!
 
@samcraig: Are you really that delusional or are you simply a paid shill working for google?

After you take a breath and calm down - maybe you can explain to me what about my post was delusional or remotely pro-Google.

I'll wait here....
 
Unless you can show us a statistically relevant number of users that could fully replace their desktop or notebook with an iPad, you have to admit that the other poster was right with what he said. Until then, iOS devices are in the same league as gaming consoles, pocket calculators, toasters and mp3 players -- all of them are nice and useful gadgets, but none of them can replace a "real" computer.

Your comparison is just as bad as the orginal poster's. The truth lies of course somewhere in the middle, but you IT guys seem to have a hard time accepting that.

Clear signs of cannibalization are reported from several independent sources. Would you call the collapse of the netbook market statistically relevant? You can ask Acer for an opinion if you like.
 
Then of course some Android phones have more RAM, higher resolution screens and faster CPUs than iPads and therefore should be counted as "mobile PCs" as well, right? And unlike iOS, Android even comes with real file system.

Smartphones don't qualify for obvious reasons. The differences between tablets and smartphones tell the story.
 
Faster CPU? The proof is in the benchmarks, not clock speed. What about GPU performance? Higher resolution? Some of those displays are using Pentile technology which is actually a "cheat" producing fuzzy output. More ram? That's because Android is a pig. Despite the more RAM and faster clock speeds, they still have the characteristic "android lag" in the UI and they still do not have low latency audio which means that you will not see apps like Garageband or Amplitube iRig on Android anytime soon.
http://www.ikmultimedia.com/irig/features/

@samcraig: Are you really that delusional or are you simply a paid shill working for google?

@lilo777: What are you talking about there being no filesystem? It uses the same filesystem as OS X but there is a BSD jail on each third party process. Apple is implementing similar filesystem sandboxing on Mac App store guidelines. Anyone who has ever jailbroken an iOS device knows that the file system is there and exactly the same as OS X.

lilo777, I have a question for you, are you aware that Android lacks low latency audio and because of that, you cannot have guitar amps and realtime recording of music tracks on android devices?


What exactly are you trying to prove? Yes, Android phones have faster CPUs (which is different from GPUs) and benchmarks show just that. There is nothing wrong with the best pentile screens. There are different types of pentile and the ones in Galaxy Note and Nexus are very sharp, better than iPhone and much much better than iPad. More RAM. No UI lag in ICF (Android 4) and this has nothing to do with the subject of this thread anyways. Same is true for Garageband. Besides, who needs it? And most people would gladly trade it for Google Navigation anyways.

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Smartphones don't qualify for obvious reasons.
As do the tablets with castrated OSes.
 
Some would argue with you.


*Standard LTD of not answering the question*
The winds of change . . .

You did not answer your question. You just pointed to well standard BS and bad data. Since the your input is garbage your output is garbage. Answer the original question. I provided the quote for you so do not have to go look for it.
Unless you can show us a statistically relevant number of users that could fully replace their desktop or notebook with an iPad, you have to admit that the other poster was right with what he said. Until then, iOS devices are in the same league as gaming consoles, pocket calculators, toasters and mp3 players -- all of them are nice and useful gadgets, but none of them can replace a "real" computer.

Can you prove to anyone that people would need a desktop computer and a laptop? Can you prove that someone with a desktop at home really needs to take a personal laptop with them on a trip? I think this really comes down to personal preference.

I used to have a MBP but I found that I did not need to take it with me on trips once I got an iPhone 3G. I could email and search the web just fine with it saving me extra bulk to carry on the plane or through airport security. One thing that I did miss was having a larger screen but the iPad solved that problem.

I gave my MBP to my mother and now I just have an iPhone 4S and iPad 2 with me on my travels. I can do everything I need to on the iPad or iPhone and if I need to access more information, I can alway connect back home to my iMac at home whenever I need to.

An iPad will not replace your computer if you only have a laptop but it can replace the need for a laptop for portability allowing you to have a desktop at home.

Also, check out 7o7munoz7o7's post as it perfectly illustrates how you can use an iPad independent of a computer to create content.

Just going to point out your personal example proves Winni point. You still need a desktop/Laptop computer.
All something like the iPad tends to do is stop the need of buying a laptop in addition to a desktop. Or it might extend the life of a current one a little longer but it does not replace them. I do not ever see the iPad pulling that off in the tablet market. iOS is to weak and limited to replace a desktop OS. The first chances I see of a Tablet really having a chances to replace a laptop/Desktop is with Windows 8 but that is because it has the standard desktop OS built into it so it can run in that mode as needed.

Do tablets have a chance in the future doing replacing laptops/desktop maybe but not for a while. It was what around 2000's when we say people starting to go laptop only. We do know people have dumped the desktop for laptops but you have provided nothing that shows people completely dumping desktops or laptops to go iPad only.
 
Bit odd, is it or is it not in the top 5

It says its top 5 in the UK only and not elsewhere in Europe but still they say Top 5.:confused:

It's top 5 over the entirety of Western Europe, and also top 5 in the UK specifically.

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10" screen alone disqualifies iPad as a PC.
Do 10.1" netbooks count as PCs? Gartner DID count them as PCs, in spite of their tiny screens. The screen size, therefore, seems an arbitrary distinction.
 
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