Apple Car Talks With Daimler and BMW Fell Apart Over Leadership Issues, iCloud

[FNH15]

Are Apple Eurocentrists or racists? What about Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Hundei, Deawoo? Tata? Lots of people make cars, even high end cars. Lots of people have battery experience.

With the exception of Toyota, none of the manufacturers you mentioned manufacture luxury cars. BMW or GM have superior battery tech. BMW has superior ancillary automotive systems, as well as longer experience making tech-laden cars (see E32, E31 et al.)

They simply want the best, highest quality partner.

Edit: Acura is not a luxury manufacturer. Their best selling car is a better-looking Pilot.

 

[techwhiz]

Hmm interesting. I never knew that as a former owner.

The key does not store over rev or low oil data.
What is stored is service interval data.
The ECU stores the faults. Some codes are OBD-II standard.
There are also extensions for manufacturer specific and "shadow" codes which only the dealer can read.
That is, unless you have a special tool/software. Most codes can be cleared. Some, like those associated with drivetrain damage cannot be cleared and are permanently in the ECU. An example of that is a condition where the engine has exceeded the maximum RPM. IN that case if you go in with engine damage, they will read the ECU and deny the warranty claim.

The key only has service information.

 

[2298754]

BMW stores everything about your driving habits on your car key. They upload the information to their central server when you go to the dealer. At least this is how the dealership explained it to me.

Pretty much every luxury car does that these days. That's how they track warranty/maintenance history
[doublepost=1461189416][/doublepost]Is the Apple Car supposed to be a more high-end car? If so, I would much rather see Mercedes-Benz/BMW/VAG help build it.

They have decades of experience. The Germans brands are synonymous with luxury and have a lot of experience making tech-laden cars.

Honestly, Toyota/Lexus would be the perfect partner. They have a reputation for quality, just like Apple, but I don't think they want to get into this business. Toyota is a very conservative company.

 

[pat500000]

The key does not store over rev or low oil data.
What is stored is service interval data.
The ECU stores the faults. Some codes are OBD-II standard.
There are also extensions for manufacturer specific and "shadow" codes which only the dealer can read.
That is, unless you have a special tool/software. Most codes can be cleared. Some, like those associated with drivetrain damage cannot be cleared and are permanently in the ECU. An example of that is a condition where the engine has exceeded the maximum RPM. IN that case if you go in with engine damage, they will read the ECU and deny the warranty claim.

The key only has service information.

Ah okay. It's a service purpose. Thanks for clearing it up.

 

[pat500000]

I'll never buy an Apple car. There comes a point where corporate greed is enough to make me vote with my wallet.

What would rick decker say about this?

 

[Piggie]

That's pretty funny LOL!! For all those not familiar, Samsung's car is 2 steps above a donkey cart and 1 step above Daewoo's.

Considering this story below was two and a half years ago.
I guess you have seen some very impressive Donkey Carts?

http://evworld.com/news.cfm?newsid=31516

 

[BeefCake 15]

Considering this story below was two and a half years ago.
I guess you have seen some very impressive Donkey Carts?

http://evworld.com/news.cfm?newsid=31516

I was talking about their regular cars

 

[Peace]

Mark my words.

Elon Musk will make some kind of deal with Apple.

 

[eco7777]

They could ask Ford.

noooooooo

 

[robbyx]

Mark my words.

Elon Musk will make some kind of deal with Apple.

Why? What does Tesla get out of it?

 

[2298754]

Mark my words.

Elon Musk will make some kind of deal with Apple.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/b/1df875df-fb0c-4020-bec7-e1f36cf299e3

Well, it's not like the two companies haven't talked yet.
[doublepost=1461190416][/doublepost]

Why? What does Tesla get out of it?

Apple's cash reserves and industrial design expertise.

 

[TheShadowKnows!]

Wouldn't matter really. They are going to run into the same problem with any branded manufacturer. A contract manufacturer like Magna is going to be their best best. There's no advantage for a branded manufacturer to participate under the supposed conditions laid out by Apple.

Spot on. I would go further: Timothy goes Chinese. "Designed in California, Manufactured in China for Apple."

Tesla experiences to-date show that building reliable, durable cars is just hard, internal combustion engine or not:

1. X-series with wing doors, latches, seats, brakes failing [ref: Wall Street Journal]; and
2. S-Series tearing away rear tires (in less than 6,000 miles of normal driving) [ref: Tesla Owners Forum].

These are fundamental design problems -- not due to aging, but due to lack of engineering savvy and/or manufacturing experience.

Apple is due for a rude awakening.

 

[Rogifan]

Jony Ive is bored. He needs some stimulation. This is the best reason I've (pun intended) come up with as to why Apple is building a car.
[doublepost=1461185612][/doublepost]

Perhaps it's the other way around. Apple wants to lock BMW/Daimler out of the data ecosystem, which makes sense, but they won't have it.

I'm sorry but Tim Cook and the board don't make decisions based on employees boredom.

 

[2298754]

A contract manufacturer like Magna is going to be their best best.

Magna-Steyr would be a fantastic partner, but Apple might run into volume production issues.

They've only built relatively "rare" cars. The last mass-market car they did was the original BMW X3.

Karmann would've been another great partner, but they have been gobbled up by VAG/Porsche

Even the upcoming Ford GT is being built by Multimatic, a Canadian manufacturing firm.

 

[Gudi]

Are Apple Eurocentrists or racists? What about Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Hundei, Deawoo? Tata? Lots of people make cars, even high end cars. Lots of people have battery experience.

Nobody said something about Europe. Germano-Austrian carmakers only.

 

[CFreymarc]

Wouldn't matter really. They are going to run into the same problem with any branded manufacturer. A contract manufacturer like Magna is going to be their best best. There's no advantage for a branded manufacturer to participate under the supposed conditions laid out by Apple.

With the amount of cash Apple has, wonder if buying an automotive manufacturer to have them do their will is one of the options on their board table.

 

[Three141]

The thing is...why does Tesla need Apple? What does Tesla get out of it? They have over 300,000 reservations and counting for Model 3. In other words, they've booked over 10 BILLION dollars in future orders. That will keep them busy for a while. They have great tech. They've also been busting their you-know-what to build a charging infrastructure, to change laws in some states to allow direct sales, etc. In other words, they're doing the hard work. What is Apple doing? And why would Tesla possibly need them (other than for the money)? I don't see what Apple really brings to the table.

I agree and I can't see Tesla's share holders being fond of this, I think Tesla has some of the most incredible share holders. They seem to just want Tesla/Elon succeed in it's eco-mission and they seem to place this above profits (for now) and I think they would prefer a non-Apple intervention on this one (I could be wrong though).

 

[paul4339]

Are Apple Eurocentrists or racists? What about Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Hundei, Deawoo? Tata? Lots of people make cars, even high end cars. Lots of people have battery experience.

Apple went to BMW for the i3 production line (they need help on how a car is built in large volumes), not help with the product (the car). The reason why is because the i3 line is designed produce cars (in high volume) using carbon fiber re-enforced plastic (CFRP) process... which is completely different than building a car using the modern stamped/folded metal process or just building CFRP vehicles in low-volume, custom order.

Many of the biggest innovations in the automotive industry has been on the production line, not the itself car. Telsa, for example, did much of their innovation on the their electric power train of the car itself (but, I believe, uses the stamped metal process akin to other modern production lines).
.

 

[AZREOSpecialist]

The last thing I want or need is a car that requires me to invest in a specific mobile ecosystem and cloud services. No way. I don't need that kind of crap in my car. My car should be technology agnostic and work with all platforms, like my Tesla. Tesla is going to clean Apple's clock. The fact that Apple wanted to use the i3 as a basis for the Apple Car suggests that Apple doesn't understand the market it is wanting to enter. The BMW i3 is a resounding failure in terms of sales. Nobody wants an EV that goes less than 200 miles. An i3 cannot go more than 80 miles on a charge, which is utterly useless for anything except fetching groceries.

Apple wanting to contract out the manufacturing of their vehicle tells me that there will be a rather lengthy feedback loop between design and manufacturing. Apple also has no dealership infrastructure and partnering with existing dealers is not an option - existing ICE dealers have zero incentive to sell an EV. It requires more knowledge and results in far less after sale service.

IF Apple enters this space, it's going to be an unmitigated disaster. Apple has no idea what it's doing here.

 

[shokunin]

I can't imagine the ridiculously high price this car is going to have. With Apple margins and an outsourced manufacturer, this is going to end up like Fisker Karma. Fisker designed and engineered (partially) the cars stateside then tossed the manufacturing to a production line in Finland. When something goes wrong it's pointing fingers, the factory says it's designed wrong, the engineers say it was built wrong and back and forth.

 

[Chrisireland]

I love being alive now and seeing all this stuff get (re)invented but damn, sometimes I wish you could just put me to sleep and wake me up in 2025 so I can see what the hell happened "faster."

Great I'm 57 and all the awesome **** I thought would happen by the time I was 30 is happening when I'm on the down side

 

[Nuvi]

Are Apple Eurocentrists or racists? What about Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Hundei, Deawoo? Tata? Lots of people make cars, even high end cars. Lots of people have battery experience.

If Apple has only been in talks with brands such as BMW and Mercedes then one could assume Apple is looking to build a very high end product. If one is truly looking for high end then there is very little need to go outside Europe. Then again I don't think BMW and Mercedes are expecting to make any money with their high end electric cars in the near future so I'm puzzled why Apple thinks they can pull it off with even heavier cost structure. It seems that Apple car will be very expensive product indeed.

 

[robjulo]

Love the spin in this thread. There just HAS to be some ulterior motive because there is no way BMW could possibly not want personal data in the cloud and no way they could value privacy more than Apple.

 

[CarlJ]

We're supposed to believe that BMW cares more about privacy than Apple? I'm not saying it's impossible, it just seems unlikely. That's not to say that BMW doesn't care about privacy, but Apple certainly has a strong record.

I was a bit surprised by that point, too, but much (all?) of the EU has _much_ stricter data privacy laws than the US.

 

[dan110]

This reminds me of the original iPhone when Apple teamed with Motorola. This is not looking good. Apple is most likely being "Apple" in an industry that, I think, they have absolutely no business being in.