Apple CEO Tim Cook: FBI's Backdoor Would Be 'Software Equivalent of Cancer'

[gnasher729]

So what would happen if Apples refuses to obey the court order? I guess Apple would be in contempt of court, but does anyone go to jail? Would Apple be subject to civil money penalties?

First there are plenty of legal avenues that Apple will use to their full extent. Like they might get expert witnesses to testify that following the court order would put national security in danger (Michael Hayden might be willing to testify, since that's what he said in public anyway, and you won't find any expert witness with more expertise).

Second, Apple can't do what is impossible. There are only a few employees at Apple who could do this job. It would be interesting what happens if these engineers refuse to do it. Apple can't force them. (Your employer can't force you to do anything. They can fire you if you refuse, but they can't force you. But in this case, Apple doesn't want to fire them, so Apple won't fire them. That would be an interesting situation).
[doublepost=1456392189][/doublepost]

Cook is plunging deeper into the delusion that Apple is above the government, common sense and the public good. It wont be long now and he will be history. I hope he wont take Apple with him.

You are totally misguided. Read a bit beyond the headlines. First, Apple is certainly not required to obey a district judge as long as they can appeal that judgement. The public good? People who actually know what they are talking about have gone on record to say that breaking the iPhone encryption will be damaging national security. You are confusing "what the FBI wants" with "public good". FBI wants to solve a case, they want this phone cracked. NSA is to look after national security, and their ex-chief has stated that cracking the phone is damaging national security. (And NSA does _not_ look after privacy or the benefits of the industry which benefit everyone - so he stated that he doesn't take this into consideration, but if he did, it would be a "slam dunk" against breaking the encryption).

Now, certainly we should not allow terrorists into our country. In fact if we find one we should throw them in Gitmo. Period.

Here's what a very right wing UK newspaper had to say about Gitmo, showing the photo of someone being held there, beard and all, with "terrorist" written all over him (except that totally innocent people wear the exact same kind of beard because it's fashion in some parts of the world): "This man may be a dangerous terrorist. This man may be totally innocent. We don't know, because the USA refuses to take him to court".

Apart from being undemocratic, and a demonstration that the USA doesn't care about the law but only about power, that kind of thing is what drives some people into the arms of terrorists. The UK has plenty of experience with terrorism from the IRA in Northern Ireland (also supported financially by many fine US citizens, so be careful with any statements what should happen to countries that support terrorists). And the goal was never to catch terrorists _now_, the goal was to do whatever possible to make sure that in 25 years time, nobody wants to become a terrorist. And that worked.

 

[John Mcgregor]

It has not been said by Apple clearly. Its always buried in some analogy. Tim Cook needs to say "Apple has fully complied with all legal requests and we have turned over everything we have but they are currently asking us to create something that does not exist."

He said that 20 times in that interview. WTF. How many times does he need to repeat that.

 

[gnasher729]

You're right, Cancer dies with the individual, this blight would live on eroding our constitutional rights for the forseeable future.

In this case, the "individual" is the United States.

Cancer doesn't spread through contact (or any other reason). HIV does.

Cancer spreads in the body through metastasis. The USA is the body. That's why people say that something "spreads like cancer". Cancer spreads inside a body, not from body to body.

[doublepost=1456393073][/doublepost]

How do you know so much more than FBI and Apple apparently? It's not a known vulnerability if they have to create it and only Apple could create a new iOS for their iPhone hardware that could unlock it. That makes it an unknown that only they can do that could then be later exploited by anyone...sounds like a Backdoor to most people. It doesn't really matter what it's called because they're refusing to do it. So judge Cook on his stance and actions, not symantics.

Nobody has tried it, because it would be rather pointless with the firmware on your iPhone, but I think that once some firmware is installed on a phone, it should be possible to extract it, and once it is extracted, since it's signed by Apple, it can be put on any other phone. So as soon as that firmware is on a phone in the hands of the FBI, it will spread to other phones. There are 12 phones in one place and 175 in another place where police wants to unlock them. Now with a total of 188 phones in the hands of the police with that firmware, it is just inevitable that one of them walks away straight to some hackers. Or to the Chinese government. Or to ISIS.

 

[John Mcgregor]

I will break it for every ignorant and/or clueless person here what will happen if Apple is forced to do this "for just this one case". Although i have no idea how this case is more special than any other case of that type - i guess logical fallacy right there already. So next thing you know FBI, police or NSA will only need a probable cause to crack your phone and look inside. And we all know probable cause is not that hard.

Like those pictures from millimeter wave scanners in airports the internet is full of. Should have been private only for TSA agent to see and deleted afterwards. But ....

 

[robertosh]

The FBI should ask Google for information...

 

[Piggie]

Be funny to see how many Nanoseconds Tim cook and his team would spend in jail before complying with the law.
Or would they spend the rest of their days in jail to uphold this?

Errrr, no

Still no one has answered the question of at what point and/or for what reason just access to data would be justified.
Still think this is all a great Apple promo show

 

[gnasher729]

Like those pictures from millimeter wave scanners in airports the internet is full of. Should have been private only for TSA agent to see and deleted afterwards. But ....

In the UK, they are commonly known as "perv scanners". And it seems that good looking women look very suspicious and require a closer examination under the "perv scanner". At least I am safe

 

[CEmajr]

Cook says he plans to speak directly to President Obama soon on this issue and go to the Supreme Court if necessary.

Not sure how this one will play out. Logic says Apple is in the right and this sets a dangerous precedent but the combination of a large percentage of Americans being technologically illiterate and not fully understanding the ramifications of a 'back door' as well as the power of the 'scary terrorist' theme to cause them to lose all rationality could make it difficult for Apple to win this.

 

[Gudi]

Hey Tim, I have Stage IV Pancreatic cancer. Doubt it. I think a more appropriate analogy would be something that can spread through contact/exposure. Maybe you are too sensitive to the mention of AIDS/HIV.

Yeah, he should totally have said AIDS. Or spread like celebrity nude photos. Much more appropriate than cancer. Sometimes you got to be less sensitive to find more appropriate words.

 

[John Mcgregor]

In the UK, they are commonly known as "perv scanners". And it seems that good looking women look very suspicious and require a closer examination under the "perv scanner". At least I am safe

Haha

 

[jimboutilier]

Bravo Tim. Keep up the good fight.

 

[Ed217]

Suppose Apple loses the legal battle, they create the software, and it gets out somehow. Who is then liable for damages to others when the software/approach falls into the wrong hands?

 

[Nuvi]

Cook is plunging deeper into the delusion that Apple is above the government, common sense and the public good. It wont be long now and he will be history. I hope he wont take Apple with him.

What public good? You think public good is same as compromising privacy and in some cases security of millions of people?The terrorists are dead and the data on some mobile phone won't bring back the victims. Even more so, do you honestly think security and privacy of millions is less important then lives of 14 people? Terrorism is a scape goat used when governments want to set restrictions or justify their actions. The fact remains, terrorists are lesser threat that drunk drivers. Did you know that DUI accidents happen every two minutes. Hell, smart terrorist should go to their local bar and start offering free drinks to everyone and just watch the carnage and mayhem which would follow.

 

[thasan]

First there are plenty of legal avenues that Apple will use to their full extent. Like they might get expert witnesses to testify that following the court order would put national security in danger (Michael Hayden might be willing to testify, since that's what he said in public anyway, and you won't find any expert witness with more expertise).

Second, Apple can't do what is impossible. There are only a few employees at Apple who could do this job. It would be interesting what happens if these engineers refuse to do it. Apple can't force them. (Your employer can't force you to do anything. They can fire you if you refuse, but they can't force you. But in this case, Apple doesn't want to fire them, so Apple won't fire them. That would be an interesting situation).
[doublepost=1456392189][/doublepost]
You are totally misguided. Read a bit beyond the headlines. First, Apple is certainly not required to obey a district judge as long as they can appeal that judgement. The public good? People who actually know what they are talking about have gone on record to say that breaking the iPhone encryption will be damaging national security. You are confusing "what the FBI wants" with "public good". FBI wants to solve a case, they want this phone cracked. NSA is to look after national security, and their ex-chief has stated that cracking the phone is damaging national security. (And NSA does _not_ look after privacy or the benefits of the industry which benefit everyone - so he stated that he doesn't take this into consideration, but if he did, it would be a "slam dunk" against breaking the encryption).



Here's what a very right wing UK newspaper had to say about Gitmo, showing the photo of someone being held there, beard and all, with "terrorist" written all over him (except that totally innocent people wear the exact same kind of beard because it's fashion in some parts of the world): "This man may be a dangerous terrorist. This man may be totally innocent. We don't know, because the USA refuses to take him to court".

Apart from being undemocratic, and a demonstration that the USA doesn't care about the law but only about power, that kind of thing is what drives some people into the arms of terrorists. The UK has plenty of experience with terrorism from the IRA in Northern Ireland (also supported financially by many fine US citizens, so be careful with any statements what should happen to countries that support terrorists). And the goal was never to catch terrorists _now_, the goal was to do whatever possible to make sure that in 25 years time, nobody wants to become a terrorist. And that worked.

Right on the money in all the answers.
Respect!

 

[8692574]

Be funny to see how many Nanoseconds Tim cook and his team would spend in jail before complying with the law.
Or would they spend the rest of their days in jail to uphold this?

Errrr, no

Be funny to see how many Nanoseconds a guy with a tanker in front of him would move away from it . Or would he stay there and be splattered?
Errrr no...... well actually Errrr yes
There are people that might fight ALSO for your right belive it or not!

 

[Cartaphilus]

Cook is plunging deeper into the delusion that Apple is above the government, common sense and the public good. It wont be long now and he will be history. I hope he wont take Apple with him.

In the U.S we are all above the government: we created it, we elect its leaders, and we can haul it into court to set it straight. Those who are educated and who control billions of dollars are especially well-positioned to vindicate their right to curb governmental entities that attempt to exceed their authority.

Common sense and public good are alwayd subject to taste; that's why they're relied upon by those who have no better justification for their positions.

 

[smeagol]

I must say I thought Tim Cook had more style and class, more intellect and common sense than to draw a comparison between security and cancer. Just proves he is as ruthless as Steve was.

So you think Tim Cook and Steve Jobs are ruthless? Wait till you see what Governments are capable of when they get their way with no checks and balances. Go no further than the history books Marxist... opps, I mean maxsix.

 

[burgman]

How can anyone think that the answer to the problem of ending the use terrorism to establish an Islamic Caliphate lies on some a***ole thug's iPhone 5c? Seriously. The whole notion is so wildly ridiculous. You want to stop terrorism? Crush any and all hope these extremists have that they will ever achieve that goal. It would take two weeks for this nation to crush that pipsqueak ideology permanently, if only it would stand up for itself.

Some people shot some people in the name of an ideology which our leaders are not only not willing to crush, but some of whom are not even willing to acknowledge exists. The advocates of this ideology don't pay with their lives, but we all pay with our freedom and privacy. Let's drop the sideshow delusions...

If you never served then thanks for your "opinion " about doing battle but I would point out that this isn't Call of Duty. Tough talk and swagger how quaint

 

[pjh]

Something that has not been discussed to far is how the precedent set here will also impact other countries. Lets say Apple are forced to give way on this issue and provide the necessary support (new OS) to open up this phone, what happens when China comes along and asks the same of Apple?

Even if we take the rather optimistic (and naive view in my opinion) that once written for the FBI, the software and principles behind it can be contained, do we really feel the same when Apple is having to provide the same support to other Nations? If Apple bends to the FBI, they won't have a leg to stand on when China, Russia and all the other usual suspects come knocking demanding the same level of "support" that Apple provides to US authorities.

A far better solution is to have a completely secure (or at least as secure as is possible) phone that no State can hack. Yes, some terrorist will use this to their advantage and alas some people might die, but that doesn't make it the right thing to do. Without looking at the potential risks, we blind ourselves to the net effect. Mind you, isn't that how all anti terror legislation gets through? We see a problem that we MUST solve because our emotions are high, without really considering what we are giving up.

Terrorism is horrible, but very few people in the West are impacted by it, we need to keep a sense of perspective here. I don't believe that the National security benefits associated with fulfilling the FBI request are sufficient to compensate for the potential loss or privacy and damage to National security (mainly economic) by weakening security.

If this ruling is enforced by the courts, we are all infinitesimally safer from some terrorists, but materially more vulnerable to state snooping, economic espionage, general invasion of privacy and most importantly of all, no safer from Tech savy terrorists.

 

[burgman]

What?

Cancer doesn't spread through contact (or any other reason). HIV does.

So does the flu why not say that. See how your comment could have stayed on point.

 

[Rogifan]

Has Chuck Schumer spoken out on this yet? Apple executives have donated $68,700 to his campaign so far this election cycle. This includes most of the executive team.

http://www.opensecrets.org/indivs/s...p=&employ=apple&cand=Schumer&soft=&cycle=2016

 

[Jsameds]

"We should not let corporate heads decide on political and legal issues" - Trump supporters

Oh the irony

 

[Dorje Sylas]

I am a hypothetical Encryption Services company, based in the United States. I hypnotically make software that encrypts data on computers and smartphones.

Hypnotically the FBI/DOJ/Courts have used All Writs Act to force Apple to create special software that weakens the Encryption software they make, and has established the precedence.

A hypothetical device is found, with my hypothetical software installed, to have been used by a hypothetical suspect the FBI is hypothetically investigating. The FBI now hypothetically gets a Writ that demands I create an "Updated" version of my software that will help them bypass any encryption my hypothetical software has generated.

I am now hypothetically screwed. So are my hypothetical customers.

Hypothetically, what software could this be and what data could it be protecting? A Password Manager and passwords. Like KeePass, 1Password, or LastPass. Where the update disables any safeguards against brute forcing the password to the "password vault."

=====

And what the FBI is asking for in this whole thing doesn't help prevent anything. Nefarious plotters, foreign or domestic, will either not use electronic communication OR they'll use their own encryption software based on known open software and standards they can compile and install themselves. It's how CryptoLocker does their "business", using accepted cryptographic methods in a program they wrote themselves. The only use the FBI would get out of this is investigating "crimes of passion and insanity" after the tragic fact.

 

[Spectrum]

A very poor choice of wording for his analogy. Enabling access to this phone has nothing remotely in common with a cell in the body becoming cancerous.

Spin spin spin spin spin...talk about hyperbole.

 

[Jsameds]

I am a hypothetical Encryption Services company, based in the United States. I hypnotically make software that encrypts data on computers and smartphones.

Hypnotically the FBI/DOJ/Courts have used All Writs Act to force Apple to create special software that weakens the Encryption software they make, and has established the precedence.

A hypothetical device is found, with my hypothetical software installed, to have been used by a hypothetical suspect the FBI is hypothetical investigating. The FBI now hypothetically gets a Writ that demands I create a "Updated" version of my software that will help them bypass any encryption my hypothetical software has generated.

I am now hypothetically screwed. So are my hypothetical customers.

Hypothetically, what software could this be and what data could it be protecting? A Password Manager and passwords. Like KeePass, 1Password, or LastPass. Where the update disables any safeguards against brute forcing the password to the "password vault."

=====

And what the FBI is asking for in this whole thing doesn't help prevent anything. Nefarious plotters, foreign or domestic, will either not use electronic communication OR they'll use their own encryption software based on known open software and standards they can compile and install themselves. It's how CryptoLocker does their "business", using accepted cryptographic methods in a program they wrote themselves. The only use the FBI would get out of this is investigating "crimes of passion and insanity" after the tragic fact.

You are feeling very sleepy...