Apple CEO Tim Cook: FBI's Backdoor Would Be 'Software Equivalent of Cancer'

[Benjamin Frost]

Could this be Apple's finest hour?

Practicing what they have preached for years, putting their money where their mouth is, risking a lot of bad publicity.

It would have been so easy to back down at the start.

I remember the criticism Cook and Apple got for being outspoken on social issues, especially around discrimination and equal marriage. The argument being a company should keep out of governance, and just do their thing. And such a short time later we see how vital outspoken companies now are: defending the public against government encroachment on civil liberties and triggering a global debate that will probably wind up in the supreme court.

Whatever your opinion, Apple and Cook's steadfast commitment has to be admired.

I, too, greatly admire Cook's hard stance on this issue. I think it's the best thing he's done since he's been CEO.

However, it is quite different to his outspokenness on other social issues, and the reason for this is because those other issues have no effect on Apple's operations. This one does at a profound level.

With the lack of a replacement to the iPhone—no blame on Apple as such, just that these things only happen once in a blue moon—this civil liberty issue can be a way for Cook to create a renewed focus at Apple. It is right up his street as well, as it combines his love of politics with something that does actually affect Apple's day to day operations.

 

[Frosticus]

You are feeling very sleepy...

Lolz

 

[bbeagle]

Hey Tim,

I have Stage IV Pancreatic cancer. Doubt it.

I think a more appropriate analogy would be something that can spread through contact/exposure. Maybe you are too sensitive to the mention of AIDS/HIV.

I'm a cancer survivor (non-hodgskins lymphoma), and I agree with Tim.

There is no 'cancer' on our phones right now. Apple listening to the FBI and getting the data opens up our phones to a disease in the future.

 

[Rogifan]

A very poor choice of wording for his analogy. Enabling access to this phone has nothing remotely in common with a cell in the body becoming cancerous.

Spin spin spin spin spin...talk about hyperbole.

Everyone missing the forest for the trees. The metaphor he used is not important. Everyone knows what he meant. If people want Apple to become a forensic agent for the FBI because "terrorism" then I fear for our country. This guy had burner phones that he destroyed. He attempted to destroy his hard drive. But we're supposed to believe a work issued phone that wasn't destroyed is going to give the FBI a treasure trove of information that will help prevent another terror attack? If that's the case why didn't they talk to Apple before they reset the damn iCloud password? And since it was a work issued phone owned by the county why weren't they using MDM? If they had we wouldn't be in this situation. I'm sorry but the government hasn't proven to me there's anything worthwhile on this phone that would help them prevent another attack (or that they can't get from somewhere else, like the phone company).

 

[bbeagle]

It would be interesting what happens if these engineers refuse to do it. Apple can't force them. (Your employer can't force you to do anything. They can fire you if you refuse, but they can't force you. But in this case, Apple doesn't want to fire them, so Apple won't fire them. That would be an interesting situation).

Apple could always re-assign any employees capable of doing this coding to positions that will not enable them to do it.

For example, an employee who CAN do it, it vehemently against doing it - so Apple under agreement with the employee moves him to the mail room (with same pay and perks) until the case is over.

 

[Benjamin Frost]

Good interview, Tim! Thanks for sticking up for the constitutional protections of Americans when the government won't.

Agreed.

By the way, for those who haven't seen it, this 30 minute interview is worth watching for a change. Tim Cook gives a great performance.

On the subject of iCloud backups, surely Apple need to make them more secure. Why should they hold a key? That is a weak point in their security. If you want a safer backup, only backup to iTunes and turn off your iCloud backup for all your devices.

 

[ggibson913]

How can anyone think that the answer to the problem of ending the use terrorism to establish an Islamic Caliphate lies on some a***ole thug's iPhone 5c? Seriously. The whole notion is so wildly ridiculous. You want to stop terrorism? Crush any and all hope these extremists have that they will ever achieve that goal. It would take two weeks for this nation to crush that pipsqueak ideology permanently, if only it would stand up for itself.

Some people shot some people in the name of an ideology which our leaders are not only not willing to crush, but some of whom are not even willing to acknowledge exists. The advocates of this ideology don't pay with their lives, but we all pay with our freedom and privacy. Let's drop the sideshow delusions...

Can you cite a single instance in world history where an idea was 'crushed'? You cannot win a war against these folks, if we go in with our big military they will simply disappear until we leave, and while we are there they will use guerrilla warfare to harass and kill our troops.

 

[Chupa Chupa]

I must say I thought Tim Cook had more style and class, more intellect and common sense than to draw a comparison between security and cancer. Just proves he is as ruthless as Steve was.

I don't get why you are all up in arms over his cancer analogy. Personally I think it's an inexact analogy but the human body is a system. Ever since there have been modern computer people have explained them in human terms, i.e., brain=CPU, nerves=bus, the use of the term "virus," etc. I see ZERO reason to get upset with someone using a human disease to explain a mechanical malady. (And before you go on, yes, my grandmother and dad were tormented by, and died of, cancer).

 

[Benjamin Frost]

Maybe you didn't read the thread.

She's right, though.

There may be a few dissenters, but this issue has largely brought the Mac Rumors readers together.
[doublepost=1456404328][/doublepost]

Was a good interview, I think Tim put his point across well.

One thing I found interesting though is a few years ago Tim said in an interview, I believe with Walt Mosberg or some such. Where he said with regards to governments forcing Apple to put backdoors in their products that they (meaning the government) would have to wheel us (meaning Apple executives/employees etc) out of the building before they did anything like that.

And yet at the end of this interview he says we like any company in America have to follow the law. So he just went back on what he said, he is not willing to be arrested or be in contempt of court for his beliefs like he said on the record previously.

Maybe he said it this way to get some favor with judges in the future as he did say in the interview that they would take it to the supreme court if they had to and he doesn't want anything he says in this interview to hurt their judgements later on down the line but I was a bit disappointed he didn't reiterate what he had said in that prior interview when asked by ABC if he would follow a court judgement to put a backdoor in the iPhone software.

Yes.

If he really wants to put his money where his mouth is, he should be prepared to go to prison if necessary to stand up for his beliefs. Otherwise, it's all so much hot air for nothing.

On the subject of civil liberties: watching Cook's passionate defence of freedom, you could apply the exact same argument to the ownership of guns. The gun lobby should watch this interview and use the argument word for word. It is an outstanding case for gun ownership for the public.

 

[Brookzy]

However, it is quite different to his outspokenness on other social issues, and the reason for this is because those other issues have no effect on Apple's operations. This one does at a profound level.

I respectfully disagree: Cook's stance on social issues is very risky for the company in large conservative chunks of the globe.

 

[Benjamin Frost]

Everyone missing the forest for the trees. The metaphor he used is not important. Everyone knows what he meant. If people want Apple to become a forensic agent for the FBI because "terrorism" then I fear for our country. This guy had burner phones that he destroyed. He attempted to destroy his hard drive. But we're supposed to believe a work issued phone that wasn't destroyed is going to give the FBI a treasure trove of information that will help prevent another terror attack? If that's the case why didn't they talk to Apple before they reset the damn iCloud password? And since it was a work issued phone owned by the county why weren't they using MDM? If they had we wouldn't be in this situation. I'm sorry but the government hasn't proven to me there's anything worthwhile on this phone that would help them prevent another attack (or that they can't get from somewhere else, like the phone company).

Quite.

And how likely is it that this phone will have anything valuable on it? The terrorist destroyed his other phones. The chances that this phone would yield any useful information so long after the murders must be extremely low.

 

[Rogifan]

Btw, there were neighbors of this guy who suspected he was doing shady stuff but were afraid to go to law enforcement because he was Muslim. Perhaps if they had not been so politically correct law enforcement would have been able to stop this attack. But let's not talk about that when its so much easier to scapegoat Apple for not providing data they don't have after the fact.

 

[Thunderhawks]

"the government isn't there to help us"

When they held a biggest lie contest:

I'm from the government and here to help" came in second place, right after the other well known lie.

I can't see how the government has the power to force a company to create something to destroy it's business.

If that was me, I 'd play along, make the program tell the FBI there are no guarantees and once it runs it erases the phone completely and itself.

I'd say oops and would be done with these jokers.

 

[AbSoluTc]

I have a rather odd question.. please hear me out.

Apple stated that San Bernardino was given possession of the iPhone but changed the iCloud password. Before they did that, Apple was able to give them the backup so they could go through it but then after they changed the password, the phone could no longer backup to the cloud.

My question is, what was the time frame on the latest backup for the phone? If it was after the shooter was dead and they got the phone, no further data would be available. It would be current if not 8 hours difference (from the time last backup was done). So why do they need access to it now? There would be nothing viable on it.

Confused.

 

[Benjamin Frost]

I respectfully disagree: Cook's stance on social issues is very risky for the company in large conservative chunks of the globe.

Well, okay, but that's all the more reason for Cook to not raise them at all. Steve Jobs never did, and neither should Cook. They are not issues that the company should be involved in, as they are completely irrelevant to the company's products.

The FBI case is quite different; it goes to the heart of Apple products and how they are made.

 

[Chupa Chupa]

Can you cite a single instance in world history where an idea was 'crushed'?

Pretty overreaching statement. There are plenty of moments in history where ideas were "crushed," it's why they are part of the historical record. The U.K. hasn't been an absolute monarchy for centuries, and that did not come about by peaceful means. The idea that humans could own other humans ended in the West at the conclusion of the U.S. Civil War, the deadliest war in U.S. history. The power of the Japanese monarchy was literally evaporated in WWII. The Chinese Revolution ended the China's Imperial Dynasty. Some 38 years later the Chinese Civil War ended the Republic of China (mainland).

Just a few instances where ideas where crushed.

 

[Benjamin Frost]

Well said.

The problem here is not that two terrorists may have stored information on their cell phones.

The problem is that they were allowed into the US in the first place.

We don't know who's coming and who's going, and we are not doing anything to prevent people from overstaying their visas. Until we get a handle on our own borders, nothing else will matter. Certainly reducing the security of our personal devices will not fix something that the US President and Congress could have and should have fixed already. No need for nine dark shadowy figures to play God.


That IS a master key! Pay attention in class or we will have to hold you back another year.

Attempts to minimize the importance here is just as bad as the hyperbole you scolded about above.


This goes directly to our freedom in the US. Freedom from a tyrannical government. This is why we have the right to free political speech and the right to bear arms for self protection.

"In my opinion," I'm glad your opinion is just that and that you weren't in charge of writing The Articles of the US Constitution or the Bill of Rights.





Oh, please. We all use dramatic phrasing. We all use analogies and comparisons. I for one am happy to see somebody eschewing lukewarm politically correct language on something so very important.

The points being made here are critically important, so we would all do well to just get over our hurt feelings.



I agree. But I think some of them are literally cowed into meek compliance. The US Government really has become far too powerful, and I think it's because the President takes power that is not his, the courts make laws that are not theirs to make, and the Congress just sits by and watches. We have checks and balances designed to prevent this, but they are not being followed and enforced. And this is how we lose our liberty.

Well said.

These Muslim terrorists should never have been allowed into the States in the first place.

Both America and Europe need governments who are prepared to enforce border controls and remove millions of illegal immigrants. In addition, immigration needs to be much more restricted.

 

[dilbert99]

Just make the software, make sure nobody takes it home, and steal the iPhone's information in a closed room. He's probably afraid to do it because then people would know that the iPhone can be broken.

And for the last time, "backdoor" is the wrong term for what he's describing. I know he's just saying it to scare people and take blame off of Apple. It's apparent that someone (Apple or other) can make an alternate iOS and steal information by installing it, so that itself is the security vulnerability. Apple is being asked to exploit a known vulnerability, not create a new one. A backdoor would be if Apple knowingly put a vulnerability into iOS so it could be later exploited.

I'm sick of this guy's BS.

I fail to see why it is not a backdoor.
Where is this piece of software going to be stored?
Does it have a chance to get out into the open? (Now it becomes a backdoor, when modified, someone can use it to access any phone)
Once the software is made it will be available to any government as the cost of doing business in that country, regardless of how good or bad that regime is.

 

[samcraig]

I think security is important. But as this "conversation" keeps coming up - I just think there's more to the story and this seems a bit of a smokescreen. Not saying it defaults the rest of the issue and argument. But this just seems to me like a scapegoat argument "He also expressed deep sympathy for the families impacted by the attack and said he wished the FBI had contacted Apple before changing the Apple ID password on the phone, making it impossible to get an additional iCloud backup."

 

[FieldingMellish]

How can anyone think that the answer to the problem of ending the use terrorism to establish an Islamic Caliphate lies on some a***ole thug's iPhone 5c? Seriously. The whole notion is so wildly ridiculous. You want to stop terrorism? Crush any and all hope these extremists have that they will ever achieve that goal. It would take two weeks for this nation to crush that pipsqueak ideology permanently, if only it would stand up for itself.

Some people shot some people in the name of an ideology which our leaders are not only not willing to crush, but some of whom are not even willing to acknowledge exists. The advocates of this ideology don't pay with their lives, but we all pay with our freedom and privacy. Let's drop the sideshow delusions...

A lot of likes does not truth maketh. Remember the Enigma?

“Germany's armed forces believed their Enigma-encrypted communications were impenetrable to the Allies. But thousands of codebreakers - based in wooden huts at Britain's Bletchley Park - had other ideas. Andrew Lycett investigates how successful they were, and the difference they made to the war effort.”

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/worldwars/wwtwo/enigma_01.shtml

 

[jwhitnah]

someone's been reading too many Steve Jobs biographies.
Hyperboles only work if theyre funny or actually related to some way to the issue at hand.
The FBI isn't asking for a 'master key'. They're asking apple for a lifeline as they try to brute force the passcode.
Not to break the encryption.
Nothing groundbreaking here.

I agree with Bill Gates on this - Apple should look to the supreme court for guidance. But a sideshow like this, in my opinion, is a bit over-dramatic and uncalled for.

Agree. Apple continues to use the straw man strategy. FBI isk asking to get into THAT phone, not every phone.

 

[RedOrchestra]

.

 

[pjh]

The FBI case is quite different; it goes to the heart of Apple products and how they are made.

And importantly how much we as consumers trust them and the faith we are prepared to put in the security of all our data. If that trust is lost, it'll materially impact what people are prepared to do on smart phones and hence Apples core business.

Agree. Apple continues to use the straw man strategy. FBI isk asking to get into THAT phone, not every phone.

We already know there are 12 (EDIT opps, I said 14 by mistake) other phones waiting on the sidelines for the same treatment. That's the ones we know about. Weaken the security and it'll be thousands a year by the authorities. Tens of thousands once foreign Governments expect the same co-operation.

 

[tkatz]

Agree. Apple continues to use the straw man strategy. FBI isk asking to get into THAT phone, not every phone.

That's where it begins. That's called precedent. The DOJ has 12 other phones they want access too, and NYC PD has 175. Once Apple does what they want, they will come back again and again. Others will too, countries as well. Eventually it will be such a pain to deal with it on an individual phone basis that they'll just ask for a general way to access the phones.

This was the guys work phone. He destroyed his personal phones beyond recovery. The work phone was subject to monitoring anyway per the guys employment. It's doubtful there's anything on it. The FBI already have texts, contact info, etc... This is just to set a precedent.

 

[rdowns]

Agree. Apple continues to use the straw man strategy. FBI isk asking to get into THAT phone, not every phone.

It's common knowledge that the Feds have other phones they want unlocked.

https://www.macrumors.com/2016/02/23/doj-vs-apple-12-court-orders/