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Apple CEO Tim Cook: 'I Don't Think a Four-Year Degree is Necessary to Be Proficient at Coding'
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I feel like there are those people who get it and those that don’t. At my university you either got something like an A or had to retake the exam like 3 times to pass. Unfortunately I was part of the other group lol. I just do not get it but thumb up to those who do. Those two semesters of Java was the worst time of my life
If anyone in the real world believes that the average high school graduate will know how to code... LMAO. Have you seen the "proficient at-grade-level" percentages? Many, many cannot do simple math or English (I don't have the statistics on hand, but it is probably over 20% nationwide and over 50% in some areas). And you (or Tim?) think the average high school grad will come out coding. I cannot stop laughing.
College is an archaic system in the first place. It's no longer necessary to go to a large place of learning, and be instructed by those who have knowledge, in order to gain knowledge yourself. You can learn more in 5 minutes on Google, than you could in most normal-length lectures. At least, for those with inquiring minds.
College today is most useful for people who don't know what they want to do, because it can expose you to numerous fields. If you want to be a developer, then Google hard. My advice.
College today is most useful for people who don't know what they want to do, because it can expose you to numerous fields. If you want to be a developer, then Google hard. My advice.
When other countries around the world tell their kids how important it is to finish college and get advanced degree, we in the US keep deemphasing education and have industry role models telling kids it’s not important. Look at this “coder”, look at this president, look at this founder of a great company.
A genius does not necessarily need to have a college degree but for the rest of us, it helps to have a more well rounded education to tackle the real world.
Of course Tim Cook would love to have more young technically smart but lacking real life experience and stamina to fight back challenges in all their fierce nature persons. The benefits are obvious - smaller wages, larger profits.
BTW, that attitude corresponds well with the recent decline in quality with much of Apple software - bugginess, instability despite supposedly new features introduced each year. Opposite to what Jobs tightened its grip on - quality control. It's a slippery slope but Tim Cook want to double down on his flawed pedantic and dull beancounter's philosophy.
BTW, that attitude corresponds well with the recent decline in quality with much of Apple software - bugginess, instability despite supposedly new features introduced each year. Opposite to what Jobs tightened its grip on - quality control. It's a slippery slope but Tim Cook want to double down on his flawed pedantic and dull beancounter's philosophy.
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Coding is not engineering. Engineers and scientists who can code to utilize computers to find a solution to a problem they are solving are a real commodity. Coders are there to help engineers and scientists who cannot code. A coder who has no college-level math cannot build a computerized mathematical model of anything.
Apple designers, engineers, developers are among the best paid in the world. And designers, engineers, developers jobs are amongst the best paid in the world (ignoring show business, some professional sport and things as such) are among the best paid in the world. How much more should they be paid?
[doublepost=1557520281][/doublepost]Do people read the articles anymore? Tim Cook says that with programs like the ones Apple is pushing where from early grades people are taught coding, by the time they finish high school they ma be able to write professional-level code. It's totally different from what I read in the comments, and it's not silly at all that if people are taught coding from when they are 6, after 13 year they will be good at programming.
true... but a 4 year degree is necessary to be proficient at surviving the HR screening...
[doublepost=1557520489][/doublepost]Not to be Debbie Downer but does the Boeing 737-Max MCAS ring a bell ? Extreme example but there is something to be said for experience from somewhere...
Earlier this week, Apple CEO Tim Cook visited an Apple Store in Orlando, Florida to meet with 16-year-old Liam Rosenfeld, one of 350 scholarship winners who will be attending Apple's annual Worldwide Developers Conference next month.
Apple CEO Tim Cook, left, and WWDC 2019 scholar Liam Rosenfeld via TechCrunch
Echoing comments he shared with the Orlando Sentinel, Cook told TechCrunch's Matthew Panzarino that it is "pretty impressive" what Rosenfeld is accomplishing with code at such a young age, serving as a perfect example of why he believes coding education should begin in the early grades of school.Cook made similar comments during an American Workforce Policy Advisory Board meeting at the White House earlier this year.
While in Florida, Cook attended a conference that saw SAP and Apple announce an expanded partnership focused on new enterprise apps taking advantage of technologies like machine learning and augmented reality.
Despite all of the technological advancements in recent years, Cook told Panzarino that many businesses have not "changed a whole lot" and are "still using very old technology." With more solutions like those from SAP and Apple, and tech-savvy employees of the future like Rosenfeld, that could change.The full interview can be read on TechCrunch with an Extra Crunch subscription or in the Apple News app with an Apple News+ subscription.
WWDC 2019 begins June 3 in San Jose.
Article Link: Apple CEO Tim Cook: 'I Don't Think a Four-Year Degree is Necessary to Be Proficient at Coding'
This. Though I'd say its not just geniuses that have become excellent coders, developers, etc without any formal education - but they do have a special work ethic and ability to be disciplined and adhere to their self-guided learning (however it manifests itself) that I'd say maybe 10% of people have. I know a few who make me embarrassed I'm taking four years of University.
If you:
a) can afford to go for a degree/diploma and
b) aren't sure if you should go to school or teach yourself
then you probably should go to school (you can drop later if its not for you)
The people I know who have actually taught themselves comparably just kind of did it and kind of knew school wasn't their path. I however am very glad to go the Uni route since it worked for me. Plus I know lots of math now
and some very important intro philosophy which I use to sound cultured.They don't. Look at their postings, almost all say something like this:
Education & Experience
BS or MS in Computer Science or equivalent work experience
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I would guess they have many hundreds, if not thousands, of software engineers that don't have four year degrees.
Meanwhile I took Spanish classes for years and while I can describe the syntax and some of the vocabulary, I can’t do anything more useful with it than saying “¡Hola Mundo!”
Proficient is the key here. You can be proficient at many things without really understanding how it works. There are a lot of proficient drivers on the road, but they wouldn't know where to start if asked to change a tire or the oil.
Depending on the goal this is acceptable or a recipe for disaster. I'll take 4 developers that know how their tech stack works over a dozen 'proficient' coders any day.
Degrees and self-taught people can both fall in either category. Typically, a degree accelerates you in the understanding process at a predictable rate. Job experience may cover everything you'd learn in a degree and then some or it may leave holes in your skill set.
Plus, there's the human factor. Some people are going to be successful in anything they do and put in the work. While others are perfectly happy with just doing the bare minimum and getting by.
Depending on the goal this is acceptable or a recipe for disaster. I'll take 4 developers that know how their tech stack works over a dozen 'proficient' coders any day.
Degrees and self-taught people can both fall in either category. Typically, a degree accelerates you in the understanding process at a predictable rate. Job experience may cover everything you'd learn in a degree and then some or it may leave holes in your skill set.
Plus, there's the human factor. Some people are going to be successful in anything they do and put in the work. While others are perfectly happy with just doing the bare minimum and getting by.
Tbh, low level programming does actually require very deep understanding of programming and the hardware. So it's fair to require education within that.
I’d argue Google and YouTube are better at exposing you to things. What college provides is a community. Don’t underestimate the network effect of all those minds interacting in close proximity on a daily basis.
I don't know if this applies to Apple but lots of companies have degree "requirements". Like my last job. They asked for a BE but took my AE (+20 years of experience) as good enough.
Those who will be in it for the long haul can benefit from formal higher education that consists of more than spending a weekend reading a few "...For Dummies" books.
I've had those brilliant developers who never went to school work for me and they do well for knocking out code, but all fell short when it came to actually designing software for long-term support and flexibility for future enhancements.
I've been in the industry over 40 years (and counting) and I attribute my longevity to the disciplines and foundational knowledge gained through pursuing a CompSci degree.
Software development is as much art as it is science. Most CompSci degree programs these days treat it more like a trade school track more suitable to... hey you! get off my lawn!!!!
Okay you have it all figured out. Maybe you should lead Apple.
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The thing is you can simply go to youtube and learn to code. As I said college is good if you want to specialize in other things as well. As others have said you learn to code by coding. Some people need that classroom environment to push them to open the book to page one.
You are correct in the very strictest sense of the word "coding". There is indeed a place in the industry for those who simply code. One can eek out a fair living doing that. But if one wants to have a career in the field, then they could benefit from formal training.
Reading between the lines you’ll find Tim Apple and the others are mainly interested in pushing their platform to young programmers. That’s what this is about.