Apple CEO Tim Cook Says Power Management Feature in Older iPhones Will Be Able to Be Turned Off in Future Update

[DevNull0]

Wrong

The 29 bucks offer expires this year and will be history for any phone bought today or later

First, so you are basically acknowledging there is a problem that is fixed by the battery replacement. Yet you're happy that people won't have that option for long? How do you process that in your mind? The batteries need to be replaced to maintain performance without shutdowns, but Apple throttling the phones instead is somehow good for the customer? It's mind-boggling how you are able to reconcile those opposites.

Second, for now it is a solution, it's impossible to predict what Apple will do next year. There's a lot of pressure from the lawsuits and government investigations and if there is a problem the replacement helps, Apple is going to have a very hard time ending the $29 offer.

Third, there have always been and continue to be plenty of places that will replace the battery for under $29. If Apple doesn't want the money, so be it. Now that it's out there that the only thing wrong with the phone is a battery, plenty of people will opt for third party battery replacements over a brand new phone if Apple doesn't offer the service. You can't unring a bell and this bell has rung around the world.

 

[BugeyeSTI]

You can google it with various links on how for example Samsung's battery now maintain 90-95% of their capacity after two years of charges and discharges.

Heres a link

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Samsu...ain-95-capacity-after-two-years.244370.0.html


Im not knocking anyones phone or battery here but i am sure everyone would want a better battery in their phones.

You cite an article with no independent testing to verify the claim. Samsung provided the data and claims in the article. I’m sure you’ve read about the Note8 battery issues recently, if not:
https://www.geeky-gadgets.com/samsu...ery-issue-acknowledged-by-samsung-02-01-2017/
The battery in my 2 year old 6S is still showing 93% capacity so not all batteries follow the same failure rate..

 

[spacemnspiff]

The battery int the iPhone 6 an later is too small to provide a enough power the phone. The small size means the internal resistance is too high.
now, tl;dr....Apple chose the wrong battery for their iPhones and every iPhone since the 6 is defective by design.

How did we conclude the points being made here? To reach those conclusions, you will have show the following
1. Show that the physical size of the battery small compared to an average battery of same capacity, if that is what is being compared here?
2. Show that internal resistance is high at BOL and and rate of change of internal resistance is high as a function of age, charge cycles, thermal cycling etc.
3. Then prove that battery is defective by design.

 

[Tozovac]

Hopefully this gets the message across that we want bigger batteries and we want them to be user removable. Even if it makes the device thicker and removes waterproofing.

ORRRRRR...at least give the OPTION of a more durable/flexible iPhone in the line-up instead of 6/7/8/X models vying for which is the skinniest & prettiest sister of the family.

 

[31 Flavas]

We're not mind readers. When Apple says "improves power management during peak workloads" nobody but Apple engineers translates that to "we throttle your processor frequency."

How do you think “power management” works in general? The only way to extend battery life is to reduce draw. How do you reduce draw? By reducing and stopping processes from running or by running them at a reduced rate so that they don't draw as much power.

That’s what “Low Power Mode” does. Says, ok - were turning of these processes - reducing brightness and shutting off the screen after just 30 seconds.

Power management means shutting things off or reducing speed - sorry you didn't realize that.

 

[ronno]

You can’t delve into the mindset of why a customer decides to buy a new phone. People trash the iPad 2 under 9.3.5 yet I find it more than usable and would never update due to “slowness”. I don’t buy a new desktop when the invariable happens. People can say what they want about why the updated. Don’t think that holds water in a court of law.

No need to delve. The fact is that customers were not given the option to fix the speed/instability issue with a battery replacement. That's the rub, and that seems to be what Apple will pay for in court.
Apple knew of a $79/$29 fix, but hid that option from customers. Instead offering either a $800 replacement phone, or the customer lives with maddening slowness.

 

[I7guy]

No need to delve. The fact is that customers were not given the option to fix the speed/instability issue with a battery replacement. That's the rub, and that seems to be what Apple will pay for in court.
Apple knew of a $79/$29 fix, but hid that option from customers. Instead offering either a $800 replacement phone, or the customer lives with maddening slowness.

I dont think Apple is paying anything except maybe a $50 differential. And you need to delve if someone says they bought a new iPhone ‘cause their old one was slow. Maybe they just wanted a new iPhone, but said differently.

 

[DevNull0]

How did we conclude the points being made here? To reach those conclusions, you will have show the following
1. Show that the physical size of the battery small compared to an average battery of same capacity, is that is what is being compared here?
2. Show that internal resistance is high at BOL and and rate of change of internal resistance is high as a function of age, uses, thermal cycling etc.
3. Then prove that battery is defective by design.

1. You are entirely misunderstanding how batteries work. To go back to the original concept of C that the poster I was replying to was talking about, C is measured as a factor of the capacity of the battery. If have 2 1C batteries, one is 1Ah, one is 2Ah, the 2Ah battery can supply double the power. So when you say small compared to an average battery of the same capacity, you are entirely missing the concept. Apple did not choose a battery of suitable capacity with too low a C, they chose a battery with too low a capacity.

2. You mean me to prove that internal resistance of a battery goes up over time? If that is seriously what you are asking, google it. It's a very basic concept.

3. First you show me where I said the battery is defective by design. I didn't say it and I don't believe it. Why are you asking me to prove something I neither said nor believe?

 

[ronno]

I dont think Apple is paying anything except maybe a $50 differential. And you need to delve if someone says they bought a new iPhone ‘cause their old one was slow. Maybe they just wanted a new iPhone, but said differently.

At 40+ class action suits, no need to delve: many of the suits claim that people bought new phones due to the sluggishness, and obviously were not offered batteries as a fix. This is not speculation, this is written in the suits. You seem to be proposing that they are all liars, but that's for the courts to decide.

I know I had a throttled iPhone 6, and it was almost unusable. 2-second delays for key presses, etc. I am guessing you have not actually used a throttled phone??

 

[chucker23n1]

Have you seen the depletion rate of battery after a certain number of cycles for apple vs the other manufacturers?

iPhone is rated at 500 cycles. Which phone do you know that offers more?

 

[cppguy]

If they need to throttle after a year or two, the battery was underpowered to begin with. Whether it's intentional or a bad design, we'll never know. It's most likely a result of chasing the thinnest possible design. I would prefer more serviceable phones, because the amount of waste this consumerism generates is incredible. Imagine if we keep buying a new phone, computer, camera, microwave, and a car every year, how much garbage we are going to pile up in a few years? We used to be able to live for 100s of thousands of years with very little impact on our environment. Make machines upgradeable, instead of glued together.

 

[deanthedev]

Wrong.

You as the customer will have the freedom to choose between throttling or paying $29 to have no throttling for another 6 months.

You really like to make stuff up, don’t you? Where’s your proof new batteries only last 6 months? Oh right, you have none, like usual.

 

[ChrisChaval]

First, so you are basically acknowledging there is a problem that is fixed by the battery replacement. Yet you're happy that people won't have that option for long? How do you process that in your mind? The batteries need to be replaced to maintain performance without shutdowns, but Apple throttling the phones instead is somehow good for the customer? It's mind-boggling how you are able to reconcile those opposites.

Second, for now it is a solution, it's impossible to predict what Apple will do next year. There's a lot of pressure from the lawsuits and government investigations and if there is a problem the replacement helps, Apple is going to have a very hard time ending the $29 offer.

Third, there have always been and continue to be plenty of places that will replace the battery for under $29. If Apple doesn't want the money, so be it. Now that it's out there that the only thing wrong with the phone is a battery, plenty of people will opt for third party battery replacements over a brand new phone if Apple doesn't offer the service. You can't unring a bell and this bell has rung around the world.

I’ve read a post of yours some posts above that stated it’s not the battery by itself that is flawed but the “size” of the battery in relation to the phone it has to drive over a certain period of time , calling it a design flaw , not a battery flaw, or something like that ..

If I recalled and interpreted your post correctly we are 100 percent on the same page

 

[bmark]

How do you think “power management” works in general? The only way to extend battery life is to reduce draw. How do you reduce draw? By reducing and stopping processes from running or by running them at a reduced rate so that they don't draw as much power.

That’s what “Low Power Mode” does. Says, ok - were turning of these processes - reducing brightness and shutting off the screen after just 30 seconds.

Power management means shutting things off or reducing speed - sorry you didn't realize that.

They already have power management called low power mode.

At 40+ class action suits, no need to delve: many of the suits claim that people bought new phones due to the sluggishness, and obviously were not offered batteries as a fix. This is not speculation, this is written in the suits. You seem to be proposing that they are all liars, but that's for the courts to decide.

I know I had a throttled iPhone 6, and it was almost unusable. 2-second delays for key presses, etc. I am guessing you have not actually used a throttled phone??

Exactly, the people that cover Apple over this debacle is astounding. They messed up big time and are paying the price now. Anyone with an iPhone 6 feels like their iPhone is a 386 computer at this point! Of course you can replace your battery in 3-6 months whenever Apple actually gets them in stock.

 

[ChrisChaval]

You really like to make stuff up, don’t you? Where’s your proof new batteries only last 6 months? Oh right, you have none, like usual.

Because users with phones younger than 12 months reported to have been throttled

The cause can be the battery itself or the phone by design , pick your choice

One thing is clear though : nobody wants to spend 1000 bucks on a phone that performs like crap just after the warranty period ended

 

[cmaier]

Because users with phones younger than 12 months reported to have been throttled

The cause can be the battery itself or the phone by design , pick your choice

One thing is clear though : nobody wants to spend 1000 bucks on a phone that performs like crap just after the warranty period ended

I do. It makes me happy.

 

[ChrisChaval]

iPhone is rated at 500 cycles. Which phone do you know that offers more?

Some would be happy if it’d be just half of that ..

You see, that’s the problem right there

 

[deanthedev]

I never said the batteries are defective by design. I'm sure they are perfectly fine batteries.

But they're too small for the device they're installed in. Therefore the device (ie the iPhone) is defective by design (ie it was designed with the wrong battery for the screen/CPU demands.)

Pedantic. It's virtually the same thing, and you're still wrong. Unless you want to provide, as I requested, data on all devices so we can see how many are throttled and how many are running fine.

Right, the problem is limited to a few people online with throttled devices. This interview where Timmy is trying to explain himself and apologizing is because only a few people online are whining.

Even Apple acknowledges it's a heck of a lot more than a few throttled devices. Why are you trying to pretend this isn't happening when even Apple says it is?

Again, I didn't say the batteries are defective by design you're claiming I did. The only fabrication is you putting words in my mouth. Apple has admitted they put in code that throttles pretty much all iPhone you're claiming this isn't true too. You seem to be ignoring what is being said on all sides and just going on with your own thing.

I never claimed only a few people are having the issue. I'm saying (and have said all along in all these threads) is you can't take a few people complaining online and extrapolate that to say pretty much every device (or a majority) has the problem (which is what many posters on MR are doing). There are likely hundreds of thousands of people affected (maybe even a couple million). That's more than enough devices for Tim to apologize, Apple to offer $29 batteries and for Apple to modify their software going ahead. But it's still a small fraction of the total devices out there. People seem to forget how many iPhones Apple sells and that a problem affecting a tiny fraction of devices still results in a large overall number.

It must be hard to have blind devotion to Apple when even Apple says you're wrong.

Must be hard not to have any data that you actually have to resort to telling lies to try and make a point, and dismiss others arguments by claiming their view is only based on blind devotion.

 

[Defthand]

ORRRRRR...at least give the OPTION of a more durable/flexible iPhone in the line-up instead of 6/7/8/X models vying for which is the skinniest & prettiest sister of the family.

Yours is a good suggestion. It would please the same customers who want serviceable Macs—not because those customers are frugal, but because they spent significant $ and want the most return for their investment.

I, personally, would choose a serviceable iPhone model with a longer service life over one with the latest gimmicks and a shorter lifespan.

 

[chucker23n1]

Wrong.

You as the customer will have the freedom to choose between throttling or paying $29 to have no throttling for another 6 months.

Nonsense. They are rated for 500 cycles. Some will be lemons and survive far fewer cycles than that, but most won’t. And virtually nobody will burn through 500 cycles in six months.

I don’t know if you’re being hyperbolic or just argumentative, but knock it off with the misinformation.
[doublepost=1516304217][/doublepost]

Some would be happy if it’d be just half of that ..

You see, that’s the problem right there

If it’s “just half of that”, they have a lemon and Apple will replace it.

 

[deanthedev]

Because users with phones younger than 12 months reported to have been throttled

The cause can be the battery itself or the phone by design , pick your choice

One thing is clear though : nobody wants to spend 1000 bucks on a phone that performs like crap just after the warranty period ended

And? Users with phones older than 12 months have reported throttling. How do you explain them? I've posted benchmarks on all my devices and they aren't throttled.

One thing is clear - lots of people like to make assumptions about what's happening without any data to back up their claims.

 

[ChrisChaval]

Nonsense. They are rated for 500 cycles. Some will be lemons and survive far fewer cycles than that, but most won’t. And virtually nobody will burn through 500 cycles in six months.

I don’t know if you’re being hyperbolic or just argumentative, but knock it off with the misinformation.
[doublepost=1516304217][/doublepost]

If it’s “just half of that”, they have a lemon and Apple will replace it.

People don’t care about ratings

People care about real life performance

I gave Apple real money, not some rated crap

I , the customer, expect and rightfully demand performance , not some ratings

 

[mi7chy]

For a trillion dollar company they can do a lot better such as popping up a notification indicating the battery is defective and automating the scheduling of an appointment at the nearest Apple store for free replacement which should be for the useful lifetime of the phone so at least three years. Or, instead of using bottom of the barrel $2 batteries that only have a one year life they can pay a dollar more for higher quality two to three year battery.

 

[ChrisChaval]

And? Users with phones older than 12 months have reported throttling. How do you explain them? I've posted benchmarks on all my devices and they aren't throttled.

One thing is clear - lots of people like to make assumptions about what's happening without any data to back up their claims.

Yeah right

You want proof?

Well Apple itself provides it by introducing the throttling feature

You want numbers , go ask Geekbench

 

[I7guy]

At 40+ class action suits, no need to delve: many of the suits claim that people bought new phones due to the sluggishness, and obviously were not offered batteries as a fix. This is not speculation, this is written in the suits. You seem to be proposing that they are all liars, but that's for the courts to decide.

I know I had a throttled iPhone 6, and it was almost unusable. 2-second delays for key presses, etc. I am guessing you have not actually used a throttled phone??

It’s just my opinion the lawsuits will eventually be decapitated. As one can claim anything...proving it is another story.

Obviously agree it’s up to the courts to decide.