Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
The most important item here is that the 30% commision is not for payment processing alone. It also is for Xcode, swift, API’s, CloudKit services, 1000s of hours training videos for all topics from design to marketting and various other tools that Apple provides developers for free. To put this is perspective, Microsoft studio professional costs over $1000 per year per developer. And the training material is laughable when compared to what Apple provides. This is the real reason why the App Store became such a game changer.
This is what's not realized. For example Microsoft gives away everything "free" yo users, but then makes up by charging lots of money for Server licenses, Developer licenses, Database licenses, etc...

If there was no App Store fee, Apple would have to charge for XCode, for reviews, and for download bandwidth for EVERY App downloaded directly to the Devs. They would just makeup the Billions charging thousands more per Mac and copy of XCode per Developer employee.
Then iOS would be like Windows where M$ used to deliberately push patches to break third party tools that compete with M$'s own tools. I've been in IT since 2000 and all the things M$ does to "encourage" businesses to stay locked into Windows/AD/MSSQL/DirectX/Etc are legendary. And mostly gone without court intervention.

Apple is unique because they make the whole package... Chips, devices, OS, and Dev tools. There's absolutely nothing from stopping almost everyone from just dropping iPhones tomorrow. There's a bit of pain getting your data off Apple services and replacing apps, but that's relatively minimal compared to lock-in like M$ has. Apple has to fight for a sale every device or people will go elsewhere.
 
It’d be cool not to have to transform our entire digital lifestyle just because we want to do a thing that our phone is more than capable of doing, but can’t because Apple says so.
Like jailbraking? Get an Android, oh you already have one, never mind. Other than that there is app for that
 
  • Disagree
Reactions: freedomlinux
Someone tell me why Ben Thompson is wrong.
Check out this guy's post. He explains it well

 
  • Like
Reactions: buddhistMonkey
I’m just saying, I could make a list of things where, prior to Apple introducing said functionality, Apple diehards would just say “get an Android” as if the desire to want to be able to do such a thing was preposterous:

- MMS (this is why they have email!!)
- third party GPS
- widgets
- control center
- downloads in browser
- files app

But after Apple announces it, Apple
fans put on their monocles like “mmmmm yes, perfectly done at the perfect time.”
no, not at all. But thanks for the condescension. Apple fans are Apple fans not because Apple did it first, or even because Apple does a particular thing better (any app sold has to be better than the building-in free one, at something, by definition), but because of the quality of hardware/software and the integration between products. Not to mention security and privacy (Not that Apple is perfect, but take a look at this for problems with windows and Android https://thehackernews.com). So, I personally think the interface in Windows (particularly the ribbon) sucks, and I much prefer the apple approach. Does that mean I think Windows people are idiots? Not at all, they just make different choices and well, that's freedom!
 
  • Like
Reactions: peanuts_of_pathos
"Apple also references locking people into devices, which Cook says means making products work so well together that customers don't want to switch."

I've heard that's why most prisoners never leave prison. It's just so nice there.

I mean come on . . . a credit card that gives you less back if you don't use an iPhone to pay and until recently couldn't manage on a web-site, bluetooth trackers that become useless if you switch to a different platform, a smart watch that ceases to work if you switch to a different platform.

And yes iMessage is both functionally a feature that people like, but it also does have a psychological allure where people don't want to have to leave their blue bubbles. I'm sure they've considered the psychological effect of the color.

And what about iCloud? For years they sold phones with 16 GB of storage and 4K cameras and no way to add storage (and forget about Image Capture working to store locally, that's another story), so they upsell customers who were getting warning messages on their phones constantly to buy iCloud storage, but iCloud is not like any other online storage service. You can't switch to Android and keep using iCloud Photos. And for files, they only have the most basic web interface for class platform compatibility.

Almost every review for Apple products comes with a mention of, "This product your best choice if you're already in the Apple ecosystem," which so many people are.

I wouldn't be so critical of Apple if their products were great, but the truth is they're not as good as they used to be. They make what I call Taco Bell tech products. All the platforms share a common core, just like all Taco Bell food comes from the same few ingredients in different forms. An iPod was an iPod, and a Mac was a Mac. But now their main platforms have stagnated because they do parity across all of them, even when it means holding each other back. They have four multi-purpose computing platforms now.

Their financial success is an impediment to them being like they were in the early 2000s. If they were on the ropes in any way, given a curve ball, they would be forced to do something interesting and make a change.

Is the App Store really that interesting? It has 2 million apps, which is 1/3 the number of articles on Wikipedia. Does an App Store need 2 million apps when there are only 6 million subjects in the entire world?

Is anything on the App Store that discoverable? Do you find the cream rising to the top? It's like a new version of the Web, but not quite as well indexed and hyperlinked. Should there be an app for McDonald's, Chik Fil A, Bank of America, etc?

He said a third party app store wouldn't be as good. I think it could be better. What if there were an app store that only allowed 200 apps at any time. That gave actual curation. Where it was known products were good enough to charge higher prices than the race to the bottom on the App Store and where trials were offered.

Of course such an App Store could be an app available within the App Store itself, but that's exactly the type of thing Apple has disallowed such as with Xbox and cloud gaming.

"He said that he oversees the strategic direction of the company, and that he works with the ‌App Store‌ in a 'limited review capacity.'"

That's very easy to believe. I picture him sitting in an office watching The Jetsons, and saying, "Let's do that" and rehearsing lines about AR. He is good at squeezing supply chains and maximizing profits. But I don't think Apple would be better if his ideas were front and center, mainly because he doesn't seem to have any ideas.

In his latest interview with Kara Swisher, he talked about AR in general terms and said, "Imagine if we were talking right now, but instead of just talking, I could be showing you a presentation." I was thinking, "Like Powerpoint?"

And I was also thinking, "Do you even know Apple had this feature back in 2008 with iChat Theater that integrated with Keynote? And that it was pretty amazing! And do you know that you got rid of it? And now when you talk about the potential of AR, you're talking about a feature you killed off already."

I kind of think he probably has no idea about that, a lot of Apple's history, or its products.

I imagine he uses an iPad 99% of the time and is mostly focused on the supply chain and legal/political issues and revenue. And granted, he is good at that. It's just not the same company.

His biggest foray was probably the Apple Watch.

It launched doing a lot of things, and doing a lot of things poorly.

Apple had the money to wait and let it mature.

But when Apple was on the brink, it needed OS X to be good.

When they came out the iPod, it did one thing and did it really well.

I don't think Steve Jobs would have let the original Apple Watch ship. It was a Jetsons idea that wasn't ready. It became good. But Apple can ship a lot of crap right now and not suffer the consequence.

As an example many have pointed out, the Music app on the Mac.

Imagine if the first version of iTunes had been that bad. Apple might not have made it. They didn't have the time or money to keep trying over and over.

Something that boxes them into a corner, any sort of disruption, would be a benefit for consumers. Because they are running on inertia in a lot of ways, able to ship a lot of crappy software and half-baked ideas. That is the point of anti-trust action—that it spurs innovation. It is a bit odd that no other company has stepped into fill some of gaps Apple has left wide open. For example, why is messaging so fragmented on Android? All the same, for no other reason than that I am an Apple enthusiast, I would like to see them shaken up a bit.

Edit:

"Cook was asked whether Apple competes against Google in operating systems. "We compete against Samsung and LG," Cook said. "Customers don't buy operating systems, they buy devices,"

He's had the best experts preparing him for this, and no one told him that LG has been losing billions for years in smartphones and just left the business entirely?

When being accused of anti-trust behavior, it's probably not best to direct attention to competitors that were unable to compete and have left the market.

Edit 2 (the article is updating):

I should have been a lawyer. I made the exact same points about the ridiculous size of the app store and about how a third party, actually curated app store could be better before I knew the lawyer had made those same points.

Edit 3:

"Lawyer asked about third-party app stores that are tailored to people's specific interests or more curated, and Cook said he's not aware of that kind of app store."

So he's never heard of Setapp?

Has he ever heard of something called Apple Arcade then, which is a curated app store within the App Store, which no other developer would be allowed to offer?
and so, you can't search for apps on the web and then download them from the App Store? Pretty sure you can, I do it all the time. Just like an App Store, but without worrying that the app is a fraudulent piece of malware
 
The Epic lawyer was actually grilling Cook on app curation a few minutes ago, right before the break. He pointed out that no one other than Apple can control what’s featured on that store, and thus, no one other than Apple can feature apps on the iPhone as a whole. Cook did point out that people are free to say whatever they want and recommend apps however they like “out in the wild” (translation: on the open internet).
Except that really isn’t what the lawyer was doing. Instead, he was playing a “gotcha” game over the definition of “curated” as it relates to the total number of apps on the App Store. He failed miserably - the number of things has no bearing on curation (e.g., some museums have millions of pieces and no one would dispute the museum is curated).
 
They are suing Google. Don’t overlook that point. Although I think their case is far, far weaker against Google than against Apple. The fact that they still have Fortnite on Android despite the fact that Google removed them is pretty conclusive itself.

That’s a massive stretch. Wired headphones have been able to support this sort of lossless audio for decades. AirPods Max are also only 5 months old. I sure hope that they’ll end up being compatible. I suppose we’ll find out at WWDC.
But these are not, by definition ,wired headphones. I hope they do support lossless, but from what I understand they take digital input, a wired headphone takes analog
 
I’m just saying, I could make a list of things where, prior to Apple introducing said functionality, Apple diehards would just say “get an Android” as if the desire to want to be able to do such a thing was preposterous:

- MMS (this is why they have email!!)
- third party GPS
- widgets
- control center
- downloads in browser
- files app

But after Apple announces it, Apple
fans put on their monocles like “mmmmm yes, perfectly done at the perfect time.”
It's pretty well-known that by using an iPhone, you're going to get new features at a slower pace. If that's a problem for you, yes, you can get an Android phone. (Funny thing is I don't use anything on that list except control center.)

Anyway, doesn't mean the govt needs to force Apple to implement things like this.
 
  • Love
Reactions: peanuts_of_pathos
Except that really isn’t what the lawyer was doing. Instead, he was playing a “gotcha” game over the definition of “curated” as it relates to the total number of apps on the App Store. He failed miserably - the number of things has no bearing on curation (e.g., some museums have millions of pieces and no one would dispute the museum is curated).
Yes, he played a gotcha game in the beginning of that section, and it irritated me quite a bit. But the exchange did then move onto the specific matter of Apple’s featured apps and how only Apple can control them, as I described.

Also, keep in mind that I was only providing the member with a summation, not implying my personal stance.
 
Except that really isn’t what the lawyer was doing. Instead, he was playing a “gotcha” game over the definition of “curated” as it relates to the total number of apps on the App Store. He failed miserably - the number of things has no bearing on curation (e.g., some museums have millions of pieces and no one would dispute the museum is curated).
That sounds more like an archive.

I would think of the word curated if they took items out of archive and had a curated display.
 
"...it's hard to imagine a part of your life that you can't have an app for..."

LOL, and Cook just gave the a powerful answer that proves, why there MUST be sideloading on every platform and device, and no company should be in total control what an user can install, or a developer can develop and distribute.

"When asked why apps can't direct users to deals on their websites, Cook said it would be "akin to Apple down at Best Buy saying 'Best Buy, put a sign there advertising where we are and that you can go across the street and get an iPhone.'"

Sure, but customers a.k.a. users can go elsewhere and buy it.
Just another reason to force open the platform, currently Apple users can't go elsewhere.
Ya aren’t forced to buy Apple products in the first place. If you don’t like their walled garden appoach, then buy other than Apple devices
 
Check out this guy's post. He explains it well

Going by that logic no iOS app should be free. And how is not paying Apple 30% mooching for Epic but not Uber? You’re not buying a car from Uber you’re buying a ride. Also if Apple deserves 30% then do ISPs and cell providers too? iPhone would be pretty worthless if it couldn’t connect to the internet.
 
Reading this email string it’s pretty clear Schiller and Forstall didn’t like each other at all. 😂


1621622806805.png
1621622830828.png
 
  • Like
Reactions: peanuts_of_pathos
And yes iMessage is both functionally a feature that people like, but it also does have a psychological allure where people don't want to have to leave their blue bubbles. I'm sure they've considered the psychological effect of the color.
The blue bubble signifies ownership of an iPhone. Android users who don’t want their bubbles to be green, want to appear like they have iPhones, without having iPhones. Essentially people are complaining that they are not able to get the recognition and trust that owning an iPhone provides, without owning an iPhone.
 
Except that really isn’t what the lawyer was doing. Instead, he was playing a “gotcha” game over the definition of “curated” as it relates to the total number of apps on the App Store. He failed miserably - the number of things has no bearing on curation (e.g., some museums have millions of pieces and no one would dispute the museum is curated).
I would. No way a museum can curate millions of items. Not enough employees. Remember Apple spends 6 minutes checking out each app...sorry I meant "curating".

Apple is just very cleverly playing with words.
 
  • Disagree
Reactions: peanuts_of_pathos
Judge asking Tim the tough questions, "but you don't have competition for in app payments, do you though? Where is the competition?"
 
Looks like we’re getting final remakes between Tim and the judge… and she doesn’t seem terribly convinced…

… like, at all.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Scipster
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.