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Good decision. Climate change is a political money grab. You can't predict the weather for my neighborhood but you want me to believe you can predict it for the entire planet. There is no evidence that man is causing climate change. The climate changes on its own. We didn't populate the earth until the end of the last ice age. What caused the change then?

What a nonsense are you writing, what does the weather in your neighbourhood have to do with global warming and pollution? You are applying back-yard science, the science of fools.
 
Being caused by man is very debatable. Interestingly, because we don't feel that intense heat of the fireballs that are forming as a result of Global Warming, they changed the name to Climate Change because we don't feel the created and perceived warmth we were supposed to feel from Global Warming come as drastically as Al Gore said it was going to be by this time. I don't deny that man has had some effect on the globe, but I also believe nature takes it course and cycles.

What I don't understand is the mindset that the best way to do this is to continue the stifling regulations over here that make manufacturing at reasonable costs impossible, so we ship it overseas and continue having China do it unregulated while growing their economy and indirectly support them ruining our planet?

I think the other problem is the reporting these days gets delivered in extreme black and white versions. Trump is lifting some regulations, this gets reported as Trump has removed ALL regulations and we are back to dumping toxic sludge in the water and releasing all filters off the smokestacks and pushing toxins in the air. He puts an immigration ban on a few Countries, and this gets reported as all muslims throughout the world are no longer welcome. And because this is "legitimate news", this gets received as it must be true. Trump goes on his first international trip, he makes some great speeches. He meets the pope, what do we take out of this meeting? The photo of the moment Trump was smiling and the Pope was not. He goes to the NATO HQ and calls all countries out, this made him an oafish boar. Rules and expenses only seem to apply to us. And what did we get out of all these meetings? Trump chose not to listen to the Italian President in headphones as everyone was using.....he was listening on an earpiece.

Tell a lie often enough and the people will believe it.

Yeah, total agree about the lying thing....such as: largest inauguration audience, 3 million illegal voters, wiretapping by former president, carrier group steaming to N Korea..... the list goes on and on! And, we are just in the first 4 month.
 
Why do people say stuff like this?

If Tim is a citizen of the US. Then he has all rights to address his government. The constitution gives ALL citizens of the US the right to do so.


They say it because Apple doesn't wow anyone more because the leadership there is more concerned about what people (a small minority) think about them i.e. diverse workforce, climate responsibility, wages, ect. That's great and all...but I don't come to MR to read about politics or social experiments, I want to see what the next device is that will make daily life tasks easier.
 
Because we learn about the dinosaurs' climate through material evidence, and the only "evidence" we have for man made climate change are computer models that don't work when you plug in known temperatures from the past? Because we know that CO2 does not historically correlate with global temperatures, especially if you go back to the ice age and beyond? Because so much "evidence" of mmcc is fake (hockey stick, NASA editing historical temp records, putting temp sensors near a volcano, etc. Why fake evidence if it is real). Because there is a HUGE financial incentive to support the politics of the people who give you your funding? Because Christina Figueres of the UN accidentally let slip that climate change is about transforming (controlling) the world's economic model? Because it was warmer in the 90's when there was less CO2? Because CO2 isn't a greenhouse gas, and anyone with half a brain knows that water vapor is both much more abundant and much more effective at trapping heat in our atmosphere? Because "oh, but if you're wrong the world will be destroyed" is a kindergarten-level BS scare tactic that no thinking adult should seriously entertain?
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Hey Golden Joe, have you ever heard of the Dunning Kruger effect? Because you are a fantastic example. It's obvious to me that you literally don't know the first thing about anthropogenic climate change or supercomputer models, but that apparently doesn't stop you from saying whatever you like.

This is absolutely, completely false. There are multiple levels of evidence for climate change that have convinced most atmospheric scientists (well, except for the few that mysteriously also seem to be taking cash from the oil industry, I'm sure that's got nothing to do with it though).

First of all, just the basic properties of CO2 itself. It is a very well known greenhouse gas. So if you emit GIGATONS of the stuff year after year, decade after decade, can you please explain to me how that has NO effret...?

Furthermore, supercomputer simulations have gotten EXCELLENT in recent years. Even most profession oil industry shills have stopped trying to criticize them on a scientific level.

Joe, you should really ask yourself where you get your information from. On one side of this debate is nearly all scientists. On the other side you have a FEW scientists, mostly older ones, who also happen to take cash from the oil industry. Even MORE interesting, they never seem to actually publish any research. They spend all of their time creating cute YouTube videos and blog posts. It's almost as if they're not actually interested in science at all and they only care about swaying public opinion...

Hmmmmm.....I wonder why that could be......

Sure, everyone is on board with a clean environment. People tend to forget that the US is the cleanest industrialized nation in the world. We were the cleanest before the Paris agreement (it's not a binding treaty), and we'll be the cleanest afterwards. This is just another unjustified attack on Trump. Obama should have been attacked for circumventing our legislature in the first place.
WOW. Now you're just completely making stuff up aren't you? The United States is NOT the "cleanest" country in the world. Not by essentially any measure.

Tell me, what particular twisted "alternative fact" did you get this little gem from?
 
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Why did so much Americans vote for the disaster called trump?!?

A recent poll, basically an election re-do showed he'd still win again, so I would start stocking up on anti-depressants now for 2020. :D
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I can't believe all the negative comments towards this, are people so stupid they don't realise the massive consequences of climate change, the whole fact that it will effect our very existence on this planet? Of course Tim should be concerned, we all should, even that cretin called Trump, the I e caps are melting fast, how is America going to be be great again if half of it is underwater, or being destroyed by more and more ever powerful storms, the man is an imbecile! WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!!

The same prediction was made in 1970. Technically we're all either underwater or burned up from the ozone hole by 2000. The ongoing problem with climatology science is that the track record of predictions is so poor as to not be believed. In the 1970s, the same hysteria occurred with nuclear energy. Yet, we've not yet destroyed ourselves. It's a combination of deliberate ignorance by the public and also the fact that politics + science = junk science which causes unrealistic crazy predictions like yours. Trust me, posts like yours only exacerbate the situation, not help it.

By the way, I did not vote for Trump, just to note. But, I can't lie. It is enjoyable watching him make peoples head explode from frustration, derangement, and dementia. :D
 
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As usual, the poor and uneducated screwing us all. Thank you, Trump supporters.
Which is it, "poor and uneducated" or "rich 1% ers" (who would be folks educated enough to build and manage huge corporations and businesses), that the conservatives are? Cant have it both ways. Guess it depends on the narrative for the moment for you guys huh? Seems to me that if the conservatives were "poor and uneducated" they would advocate more for the liberal policies to get all the freebies.

What I don't understand is the mindset that the best way to do this is to continue the stifling regulations over here that make manufacturing at reasonable costs impossible, so we ship it overseas and continue having China do it unregulated while growing their economy and indirectly support them ruining our planet?
THAT'S what a lot of the "knowledgeable" folks here don't seem to be able to comprehend. And China has until 2030 to do anything at all.
 
I am definitely not an expert on the Paris Accords, so my original post was really more philosophical about the need to deal with global environmental impacts via international agreements. If we can agree to that, then maybe it would be better to propose amendments to the Accords, rather than bail-out of them and the international environmental community all together. In this way, we could continue to be a leader of the free world rather than appear to be a superpower without an international role in making the planet better.

As it relates to China, I found this from the Center for Climate and Energy Solutions:

"China committed to the following actions by 2030:

  • Peaking of carbon dioxide emissions around 2030 and making best efforts to peak early;
  • Lowering carbon dioxide intensity (carbon dioxide emissions per unit of GDP) by 60 to 65 percent from the 2005 level;
  • Increasing the share of non-fossil fuels in primary energy consumption to around 20 percent; and
  • Increasing the forest stock volume by around 4.5 billion cubic meters from the 2005 level.1

Based on analysis by some of the world’s leading energy institutes, China’s INDC represents a significant undertaking beyond business-as-usual and will help slow the rise in global greenhouse gas emissions. According to the U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA), International Energy Agency (IEA), Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) and Tsinghua University, peaking carbon dioxide emissions around 2030 would reduce China’s emissions by at least 1.7 Gt or 14 percent from the most optimistic business-as-usual (BAU) scenario"



In order to hit these 2030 targets, China will have to do something soon to turn the tide and change the way they do business. The point is: Just because the goals are measured in the year 2030 doesn't mean action isn't required immediately to meet those goals. So, it might not be completely accurate to say "China doesn't have to do anything until 2030".

Correct - and they will sign it without us regardless. So China who is the main polluter does something about the problem while the US protects its jobs and does not foot the bill.

Sounds like a good compromise to me.
 
I'm a republican and am all for taking care of our planet.

That said, this Paris Agreement is not legally binding, it carries no penalties, and it sets no limits for what it aims to do. What an amazing "agreement" put forth by our United Nations body. All it amounts to is a self-congratulatory pat on the back by the world's 195+ nations.

It will also cause taxpayers of the heavy CO2 producing nations (e.g. us) to subsidize clean energy for nations that cause far less pollution. Since the US is #2 on the CO2 list at 17% overall, I'd rather see those billions of dollars invested in *our* energy infrastructure to drop that percentage, not be distributed to nations who are making 1% or less in CO2 emissions. Our R&D in clean energy methods naturally filters down to those nations anyway. No need to send billions of our taxpayer money to them.
 
Unfairness about global warming? What? Also, capitalism is the greatest type political system. What is unfair about it? People compete. Products are therefore better. Do you think Apple would exist without capitalism, let alone any other company?

Rather ironic that Apple's products are all assembled in communist China rather than capitalist America.
 
The elite you speak of, are in political power, and use their power to indoctrinate people into believing climate change is a hoax, all to enrich themselves, at the expense of people like you.

No they are not. The elite I speak of own the Federal Reserve. They print money out of nothing and sell it to the US government in exchange for interest, big interest, i.e. usury.

With the access of unlimited money they have bought the Beltway, the Judiciary and the White House. Beyond that they have bought up all media, which is nothing more than their propaganda apparatus. Those that don't take their money or who already are dual citizens (first and foremost loyal to Israel) are blackmailed. This is where the sickening amount of pedofilia in the establishment comes in. Honey traps of the olden day have been exchanged for pedofilia traps, run by intelligence services in order to gain control over whoever they need control over. British intelligence run the same in London.

That is the elite. Politicians and even the US president are just their pawns.

As far as the man man climate change hoax goes, it's just a tool for control and manipulation. Ultimately you will have to pay a CO2 tax for breathing. No money? Die.

And yes, these sickos, the majority of them being zionists are worshipers of Baal, or Satan. They sacrifice children, drink blood and enjoy themselves they way it's done in hell. They hate humanity and enjoy seeing it suffer.
 
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Yeah, total agree about the lying thing....such as: largest inauguration audience, 3 million illegal voters, wiretapping by former president, carrier group steaming to N Korea..... the list goes on and on! And, we are just in the first 4 month.

Largest inaugural audience....who cares, they also reported that he got rid of the MLK bust that a photographer was standing in front of. Who cares? Small stuff.

3 million illegal voters.... very plausible. Without voter ID and the constant fight against it, it's very plausible.

Wiretapping by the former president is unwrapping before your very eyes, you just don't know about it because your media is still too focused on trying to find the non existing evidence of Russian Collusion. Those wiretaps were what got Flynn in trouble, and it appears Obama is under his own investigation for tapping quite a few wires right now. By the way, how does a community organizer that becomes a senator followed shortly by becoming president afford an $8.1 million dollar home on a salary of $400k per year? But I digress...

Carrier steaming North Korea? What are they steaming, carpets?

The big lies are the constant reports from "sources" unchecked, not investigated, and they just pile it on over and over, but pay no attention. This giant story about Russian collusion. They build something up, work with it, nothing comes of it, knock it down and try something else. Nobody can say what the crime is, and the investigation has not produced anything. Next up, reports are serving up the newest and biggest, "Comey is going to testify about Trump's interference 3 weeks after he testified under oath that there was no interference. So they will continue to feed the story on how they see it playing out when the reality is, if Comey testifies that Trump interfered, A. He goes to jail for perjury, B. He adds to that punishment as it is illegal to NOT report someone trying to interfere with an investigation. Next up after that?

By the way, does anyone recall the live Microphone when Obama got caught colluding with the Russians? Why wasn't there an investigation there? Augh the blatantly obvious double standard.


Repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it.
 
Democratic party at its weakest point since the 30's.

Sorry, nobody is listening to you.

Trump did not win a majority. He won the electoral college. Take a look at the amount of activism his unpopular positions have created.

As for the comment about the Democratic Party, you probably are referencing the Gallup poll about the Democrats being referenced by Right wing publications. You actually have to read the entire article to understand what it actually said.

"So far Trump's unpopularity as president has done little to erode Americans' views of the GOP, perhaps because they were already quite negative."

"The decline in Democratic Party favorability is mostly a result of lower ratings from self-identified Democrats. In November, 83% of Democrats had a positive opinion of the Democratic Party; now, 77% do."

"Over time, Democratic Party and Republican Party favorability have averaged 50% and 44%, respectively. Republicans have yet to enjoy a sustained period of time in which their favorable ratings significantly exceed those for the Democratic Party."


Only idiots would refute the findings and serious warnings of scientists world wide. Then again, we're talking about the extreme right wing.
One other thing, renewable energy and climate change initiatives are actually good for the economy. It will not only preserve jobs, it will create them. Again, that's probably too much for you to understand.
 
Trump did not win a majority. He won the electoral college. Take a look at the amount of activism his unpopular positions have created.

As for the comment about the Democratic Party, you probably are referencing the Gallup poll about the Democrats being referenced by Right wing publications. You actually have to read the entire article to understand what it actually said.

"So far Trump's unpopularity as president has done little to erode Americans' views of the GOP, perhaps because they were already quite negative."

"The decline in Democratic Party favorability is mostly a result of lower ratings from self-identified Democrats. In November, 83% of Democrats had a positive opinion of the Democratic Party; now, 77% do."

"Over time, Democratic Party and Republican Party favorability have averaged 50% and 44%, respectively. Republicans have yet to enjoy a sustained period of time in which their favorable ratings significantly exceed those for the Democratic Party."


Only idiots would refute the findings and serious warnings of scientists world wide. Then again, we're talking about the extreme right wing.
One other thing, renewable energy and climate change initiatives are actually good for the economy. It will not only preserve jobs, it will create them. Again, that's probably too much for you to understand.
And your point is?
 
That one is Peter Thiel. He is a Trump supported and spoke at the Republican convention in 2016. You don't seem to know anything.

I can imagine it might have surprised and apparently baffled you to realise I don't know that guy, as if he was Jesus reincarnate and I somehow ought to have known about him, otherwise I would be thought of as knowing nothing. I apologise to you and to His Thielness as well.

Meanwhile, after you are done passing judgements front right and centre, the point I was making in my post was about how Cook and the guy "look" in the photo, and how that seemed and felt a little too apt a look in the circumstance of the news, is all. It had nothing to do with identifying the guy or my knowledge of anything.

So, do you want to only rip posts and words apart, or do you have/ want to say anything about my point in my post and add to the discussion?
 
They say it because Apple doesn't wow anyone more because the leadership there is more concerned about what people (a small minority) think about them i.e. diverse workforce, climate responsibility, wages, ect. That's great and all...but I don't come to MR to read about politics or social experiments, I want to see what the next device is that will make daily life tasks easier.

So Apple should just shouldn't give a crap about the world around them right? They should just make stuff and shut up?

The reason we have governments that care more about their party and not the people is this cancerous attitude from people who want to escape from reality.

The stuff going on in our governments is more important than a shiny new idevice.

And BTW their wouldn't be any need for "social experiments" if a group of people didn't set themselves up as the top of the human race. Took the lions share of the world's resources and left scraps for everyone else.
 
Trump did not win a majority. He won the electoral college. Take a look at the amount of activism his unpopular positions have created.

Trump won a majority of that states, and the vast majority of counties. It doesn't matter how many more people voted for Hillary. There is no such thing as a popular election for President in this country.

I always find it quite peculiar how liberals espouse diversity, yet they believe that residents from a small minority of populous states and counties across the nation should control the outcome of elections, or for that matter are representative of America as a whole.

Also, all the burning, rioting, 1st Amendment silencing and foul-mouthed antics of Antifa and P*ssy Hats aren't aspiring examples of left wing activism.
 
Ok.
Correct - and they will sign it without us regardless. So China who is the main polluter does something about the problem while the US protects its jobs and does not foot the bill.

Sounds like a good compromise to me.

Ok, so you no longer believe that China is doing nothing under this agreement, but you see this as being purely transactional....a win/loss scenario with an opportunity to score a win. No strategic need to share global responsibility and lead. That's fine. I see it differently.

There is no doubt that many countries are behind the US in environmental technology and regulations.....just as the US was backwards in the early part of it's industrialization. Do we partner and work with these countries, or do we retreat into a cocoon of isolationism? That's really the crux of the issue. If you want to be the leader of the free world, you have to lead not hide and retreat from what is clearly a global issue.
 
Largest inaugural audience....who cares, they also reported that he got rid of the MLK bust that a photographer was standing in front of. Who cares? Small stuff.

3 million illegal voters.... very plausible. Without voter ID and the constant fight against it, it's very plausible.

Wiretapping by the former president is unwrapping before your very eyes, you just don't know about it because your media is still too focused on trying to find the non existing evidence of Russian Collusion. Those wiretaps were what got Flynn in trouble, and it appears Obama is under his own investigation for tapping quite a few wires right now. By the way, how does a community organizer that becomes a senator followed shortly by becoming president afford an $8.1 million dollar home on a salary of $400k per year? But I digress...

Carrier steaming North Korea? What are they steaming, carpets?

The big lies are the constant reports from "sources" unchecked, not investigated, and they just pile it on over and over, but pay no attention. This giant story about Russian collusion. They build something up, work with it, nothing comes of it, knock it down and try something else. Nobody can say what the crime is, and the investigation has not produced anything. Next up, reports are serving up the newest and biggest, "Comey is going to testify about Trump's interference 3 weeks after he testified under oath that there was no interference. So they will continue to feed the story on how they see it playing out when the reality is, if Comey testifies that Trump interfered, A. He goes to jail for perjury, B. He adds to that punishment as it is illegal to NOT report someone trying to interfere with an investigation. Next up after that?

By the way, does anyone recall the live Microphone when Obama got caught colluding with the Russians? Why wasn't there an investigation there? Augh the blatantly obvious double standard.


Repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it.

Oh you are really reaching with that Obama collusion hot mic. That was about a hotly debated subject (missile defense) not about negotiations across the board behind closed doors.

I personally am reserving judgement about Trump/Russia until the facts come out. But being a life long Newyorker, I can tell you the US made a horrid choice in electing trump.
 
Some of the opinions expressed here make me despair for humanity's future.

Whether or not you think global warming is a myth – and boy, there really are some of you out there – I simply can't understand the aversion to leaving the world better than you found it. I'm genuinely unable to wrap my head around why there's so much opposition to renewable energy and these sorts of pacts.

I feel the same way reading through some of these responses, but... it's also a bit of a relief coming across posts like yours that show me that, yes, there are people out there who do care and aren't so self absorbed and negligent/uninformed. So that's something :)
 
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