I have once mentioned that heat changes how the keyboard behaves. And someone commented that his MBP was most of the time in clam shell mode and his keyboard acted up. If debris are just part of the problem and there is something else, it might have something to do with the plastic? I really wonder.
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Apple Confirms 2018 MacBook Pro Keyboard Has 'Membrane' to 'Prevent Debris From Entering the Butterfly Mechanism'
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I have once mentioned that heat changes how the keyboard behaves. And someone commented that his MBP was most of the time in clam shell mode and his keyboard acted up. If debris are just part of the problem and there is something else, it might have something to do with the plastic? I really wonder.
It's bad design if a single torn membrane results in replacing a top case.
IHMO, Apple's main problem right now is Jony Ive himself. Without anyone to tell him "no", he's been making bad decisions after bad decisions.
As for "upgrade path", I didn't mean "upgrade the laptop" I meant future laptops. That's what "path" means. What am I going to buy once that 2015-2017 MacBook Air needs to be replaced? Will Apple have come back to its senses in 2027?
And yes, the Dell XPS seems to be a popular choice amongst Apple switchers*.
* it's so sad that this once meant something else.
While I loved the 3D skeumorphic look of OS X, it looks really dated now that we’re several years removed from Mavericks. Initially I had the same reaction when iOS 7 came out but it was for the best. Everything looks cleaner and more uniform.
Well, I personally don't know anyone that lives in a clean room. Previous models had no issue with dust or debris like this. Even if they did, the keycaps could be removed, cleaned, and reattached. If you remove these keycaps you're almost certain to break the butterfly mechanism, especially on the spacebar, and that requires a whole new top case.
ARE. YOU. KIDDING. ME.
Your comment is utterly absurd and in riddled with opinion-based conjecture.
First, it is entirely possible that Apple has a DUAL PURPOSE for the silicone in the new keyboard. It could very well be for sound dampening AND dust and particle protection. Apple didn't lie about anything.
Second, you have a terrible warped and unrealistic view of product and engineering cycles. Assuming the 2016 and 2017 keyboard issues were found during the 2016 product cycle (with the first wave of the new keyboards), the 2017 models would have already been signed off on and likely in production. As a result, it would have taken AT LEAST a year for engineering and manufacturing to catch up with a revised keyboard and/or fix to the issue. Knowing this wasn't enough, Apple issued a quality repair program and IS refunding anyone who previously paid for a repair.
Your expectations are horridly unrealistic. Compensated for your time? Gone into debt over the repair? Neither are Apple's issues. Apple does not manage your time nor do they manage your finances. If your time is THAT valuable, there is nothing stopping you from having a backup Mac on hand for when yours is out for repair. Or, there is nothing stopping you from buying a new MacBook and using it until yours returns from repair, only to return it and get your money back. You didn't HAVE to lose considerable time.
Get a life, go find something else to complain about dawg. You need Jesus.
IF the existence of a new, fixed model is admissible in/relevant to those cases, Apple aren't fooling anyone - the "secret" was never going to last beyond the first teardown article and comparison with Apple's patent filing for a membrane to prevent contaminant ingress.
No, I think its just that Apple doesn't want to remind the general public wandering into an Apple Store that there's a question over the keyboards - or raise expectations of the new keyboard being somehow "dust resistant" (dunno about the US, but under EU/UK trading standards, claims like that would really come back to haunt them if there were further dust problems).
Good observation. And how well will this hold up in extremely dry climates (or running the system hot)? How long before that barrier becomes brittle and flakes off CAUSING keys to stick?
Yes, they'll repair it for free. With exactly the same part, that will most probably fail once again in the exact same way. After four years, which is less than most people keep their computers in 2018, it will be a costly fix that will most probably fail again after that.
The butterfly keyboard design is too fragile and glueing the whole keyboard to the top assembly along with the battery is another bad design idea on top of that.
Same bad old keyboard just with a condom...
How is that better?
It took Apple 10 years to figure out that the Mac Pro was a complete design failure.
I do not think things changed that much...same thing will happen with the Macbook Pro.
Apple innovation is and has been dead for a while now. I do not understand why no one is getting fired over this design failures...
How is that better?
It took Apple 10 years to figure out that the Mac Pro was a complete design failure.
I do not think things changed that much...same thing will happen with the Macbook Pro.
Apple innovation is and has been dead for a while now. I do not understand why no one is getting fired over this design failures...
Sorry for the misunderstanding. Why don’t you give the MBP a chance? You have 2 weeks to take it back. You might like it aftera.
If the membrane is silicone, it should never become brittle and flake off. If it's made from something else that can become brittle and flake off, then it's absolutely a "time bomb" that's even worst than the fix. Let's hope for Apple that if that's the case, the problem will only surface in 10 or even 20 years, when most of these laptops will have been sent to recycling.
The properties of silicone refute this worry - silicone is quite resilient to heat, does not crack and crumble. The heat might still affect the butterfly mechanism's fragile props, and lead to eventual failure; dust alone does not account for all the problems this keyboard. So the entire redesign from scissors is still not a smart one, especially as it was done in the pursuit of a thinner laptop!
Personally, I think the silicone membranes will outlast the actual long-life of a Mac computer.
They’re not going back to a thicker design man. If they hadn’t reduced the thickness people would’ve said,” The new MBP is good, but it could’ve lost a few.”
As for the keyboard, this revision has barely been out a week. For all we know the problem is fixed. The machines are as good as any ultra book gets in 2018 with the exception of the GPU but this is the result of business deals more than Apple’s fault.
You presume wrong, dude.
No need to go far to check.
Just look at the picture provided by iFixIt and used by the headline MR article.
There are individual condoms, one for each key: 64 condoms in the US keyboard.
And, yes, they saved 14 condoms on the ESC row which is now the TouchBar.
Finally, for those that debate, endlessly, that Apple "said" versus Apple "did not say", the smoking gun is not far either.
Apple applied in 2016 and received in early 2018 a US patent for those same key condoms, which Apple's patent spells out precisely its purpose: to keep debris and contaminants away from the internal key mechanism.
Belief and presumption not required. It is there for all to read.
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I’ve always had compressed air around since I had my first PC. Electronics fail when you don’t clean them. I blast the dust away from my consoles and receivers as well.
...it means if a repair technician tears a part of the membrane they’re not allowed to “finish” a repair using a part they know they broke.
I don’t see the problem with not allowing a customer to get a known broken part in their repair.
What are the “so many issues?” The keyboard is one. What else? The i9? How many people are actually buying the i9 config? Given the amount of people complaining about the base price tag not many.
I agree. However I do wonder why some people have this issue and others don't. Especially after such a short time.
But I had silicone keyboard cover before and the heat from the mbp deformed it slightly. Dust could enter slight gaps.
Heat dissipation from the 2016 MacBook Pro and its 2018 overhaul is a major problem and is not limited to the i9 version. So, this is not going to be a model that will still be working as most Macs do beyond 6-8+ years.
The complaints about price by a person who bought a MacBook Pro is just whining; nobody who buys one knowing what they are getting into is really bothered by the price. A $300 HP laptop lasts more than seven years now.