Apple Confirms 2018 MacBook Pro Keyboard Has 'Membrane' to 'Prevent Debris From Entering the Butterfly Mechanism'

[Tozovac]

While I loved the 3D skeumorphic look of OS X, it looks really dated now that we’re several years removed from Mavericks. Initially I had the same reaction when iOS 7 came out but it was for the best. Everything looks cleaner and more uniform.

There's a datedness I too don't need and can do without, but there was too much throwing out the baby with the bathwater I feel with iOS7 and beyond. Looking beyond some datedness details, anytime I use my old touch iPod (which I use for home surveillance using the Manything app) with iOS 6 or iPad 1st-generation (which I leave in the garage) with iOS 5, there's a certain "quickness of use" I can't help but notice and be astonished by, and which reminds me of that magical feeling I had from 2010-2013 of iphone/ipad ownership. It's the result of there being better (IMHO) use of basic UIx cues such as borders, shading, colors, and (dare I say it) 3D looking buttons that instantly (subconsciously) allow a mental organization in my mind so I can take in what's in front of me and then start processing/using. ioS 6 and prior did a much better job at using black/white and blue indications, vs. iOS 7+ which went completely overboard with basic shapes/representations and over-use of blue font for both "info" and "press me" items. Again, any time I use my old iPod or iPad, it just blows me away how different it "feels."

Even as an experienced user who does not "need" to see something look a certain way in order to use the device, there are instinctual-based UIx cues whose helpfulness can be felt and are just plain fact, no matter how much Jony thinks they are unnecessary. It's his scoffing away certain UIx cues to be "no longer needed" that is one of the main reasons I think he's not as good a designer as his reputation holds him to be, resulting in a decreased user experience for me and many.

In the context of this thread, Apple's misguided emphasis on thin and minimalism has resulted in this disaster of a keyboard. Their current focus is why I rushed to buy a 2014 MBA while I still could, for the USB ports and non-toy-looking OSX Mavericks.

 

[Glideslope]

So Apple has put a condom on the Keyboard

Are you posting a "Safe Keystroke" comment?
[doublepost=1532013679][/doublepost]

It's bad design if a single torn membrane results in replacing a top case.

Perhaps, but from a mass assembly line point it's the only way, IMO.

 

[AppleHaterLover]

ARE. YOU. KIDDING. ME.
Your comment is utterly absurd and in riddled with opinion-based conjecture.

First, it is entirely possible that Apple has a DUAL PURPOSE for the silicone in the new keyboard. It could very well be for sound dampening AND dust and particle protection. Apple didn't lie about anything.

Second, you have a terrible warped and unrealistic view of product and engineering cycles. Assuming the 2016 and 2017 keyboard issues were found during the 2016 product cycle (with the first wave of the new keyboards), the 2017 models would have already been signed off on and likely in production. As a result, it would have taken AT LEAST a year for engineering and manufacturing to catch up with a revised keyboard and/or fix to the issue. Knowing this wasn't enough, Apple issued a quality repair program and IS refunding anyone who previously paid for a repair.

Your expectations are horridly unrealistic. Compensated for your time? Gone into debt over the repair? Neither are Apple's issues. Apple does not manage your time nor do they manage your finances. If your time is THAT valuable, there is nothing stopping you from having a backup Mac on hand for when yours is out for repair. Or, there is nothing stopping you from buying a new MacBook and using it until yours returns from repair, only to return it and get your money back. You didn't HAVE to lose considerable time.

Get a life, go find something else to complain about dawg. You need Jesus.

This might just be the most passionate Apple defense (when Apple is in the WRONG) in the history of the world. Congratulations.

You win the right to buy a $ 6,000, 800 Mhz i9 MacBook Pro at the nearest Apple Store.

 

[citysnaps]

I remember when the forums actually had people who liked Apple products. Now all people do is come here to bitch and moan about everything under the sun. I'm not sure if that speaks volumes about the site or Apple or society in general.

I think it says a lot about people who have little power or joy in their lives. Trashing a company and/or its CEO provides a bit of joy and the feeling of power. For a couple of minutes, anyway.

 

[HacKage]

So, after nearly 40 years of advances in personal computing, suddenly we have to start worrying about keyboard hygiene?

This is what I don't get by the crowd who say "Stop eating your dinner over your laptop.". People may be doing that, but from most of the stories, people are not doing anything different from what they have done over generations of Macs and they now have issues. Think about how many millions, if not billions of keyboards have been made over the years, and how many of them have had issues with tiny specs of dust rendering the keyboard useless? This is Apple's problem, of their own doing, and I just wish they would stop being so pig-headed and just admit they done goofed and revert back to the tried, tested and loved previous design.

 

[NVRumor]

Boy do I remember that 2016 Keynote where these were introduced & being utterly shocked at the time. Product has been a dumpster fire ever since. (Proud owner of the previous design!)

Mid 2015 MacBook Pro 15" here and happy with it.

 

[AppleHaterLover]

I think it says a lot about people who have little power or joy in their lives. Trashing a company and/or its CEO provides a bit of joy and the feeling of power. For a couple of minutes, anyway.

Hey, some people are trying to justify them keeping their 6-year old MacBook Pros "because of the keyboard". Let them be.

 

[trifid]

2019 MBP: touchbar enlarges and replaces mechanical keys, no more debris issues!

 

[NT1440]

This might just be the most passionate Apple defense (when Apple is in the WRONG) in the history of the world. Congratulations.

You win the right to buy a $ 6,000, 800 Mhz i9 MacBook Pro at the nearest Apple Store.

Do you have any actual critique for his engineering/production timeframes? In the world of mass manufacturing his post is pretty much spot on. Anything released this year has been in the various stages of the pipeline for at least two years now. That’s how the world works.

 

[lec0rsaire]

Heat dissipation from the 2016 MacBook Pro and its 2018 overhaul is a major problem and is not limited to the i9 version. So, this is not going to be a model that will still be working as most Macs do beyond 6-8+ years.

The complaints about price by a person who bought a MacBook Pro is just whining; nobody who buys one knowing what they are getting into is really bothered by the price. A $300 HP laptop lasts more than seven years now.

I’ve had mine since 11/2016 without any problems. This is really all much ado about nothing. People are really overreacting here and amplifying the noise. Most people trashing these machines have not owned one.

 

[Yvan256]

I agree. However I do wonder why some people have this issue and others don't. Especially after such a short time.

Some people use their computers outside their homes. Some people live in areas where there's more dust in the air. Some people have air purifiers in their homes. There's a lot of variables at play here.

Other people also mentioned that heat could be another factor that's directly affecting the butterfly mechanism. Again that's another variable as people typing documents and going on Facebook will not push their computers as much as those using CPU-heavy and/or GPU-heavy programs that heats up the laptop.

 

[69Mustang]

Because to admit that the new design fixes a design flaw, would be to admit that the previous generation has a design flaw. That opens them up to liabilities in the court system. Better to knowingly lie, and hope that the problem goes away.

This, by the way, is the reason that society is declining. Nobody - not companies, politicians, or even your neighbor apologizing for running over your flowers - can be truthful without fear of being sued.

I think everyone understands that. It's a view that I held as well. Held. Then I realized their silence hasn't mitigated any liability. They're still being sued and if these internal documents are valid, they look worse than they would have by simply admitting to the defect. Now it's starting to look like intentional deception.

The old adage "the cover up being worse than the crime" comes to mind.

 

[canyonblue737]

The last two weeks the Apple media frenzy has reached "peak keyboard." I don't know, I just think most folks can use common sense and know a few things...

1. Apple made a 3rd version of the keyboard to attempt to improve its resistance to dust.
2. Apple will never admit that not just because of class action lawsuits but also to prevent folks who own a pricey MacBook from the last several years from hearing explicitly from Apple itself that they have a flawed ticking time bomb of a product in their hands.
3. The current 3rd version butterfly keyboard may well "fix" the issue but I suspect the next major design revision to the MacBook hardware will come with an entirely new design of keyboard that once and for all prevents these issues, eliminates fragile membranes and makes it more serviceable.

The Apple media is acting like this is all a stunning revelation and they are uncovering secrets, but common sense tells you all of this.

 

[nvmls]

Great, so they basically admitted that the last generation had problems with debris ingestion that was solved or atleast mitigated with the 2018 MBP - BUT - us with last years model are sorely stuck with the crappier design, even if we get a free service at any Apple store, we still only get another one of the crappier design that in time also most likely will fail.

I feel so great being stuck with a 2017 fully loaded MBP with several keys not working and the B key repeating 2-3 presses with every press.

Sure, things get updated and improved all the time but leaving us stranded on an isolated island when there is solution to the problem is kinda crappy

Likely the silicone isn't even a solution but more of a band-aid workaround, however, sometimes as an apple consumer you gotta feel the pain to learn the lesson, while the internet does include a lot of smoke, it does also provide a fair amount of legit visual feedback (aside from text) which you can learn from.

Finally if you headed to an Apple store and tried the keyboard yourself and still decided to buy it, even if you bought it but failed to return it within it's time-frame, that's hardly Apple's fault, to their eyes it's a success cause you bought it and they are doing you a favor even replacing this with the same flawed design.

 

[sracer]

If the membrane is silicone, it should never become brittle and flake off. If it's made from something else that can become brittle and flake off, then it's absolutely a "time bomb" that's even worst than the fix. Let's hope for Apple that if that's the case, the problem will only surface in 10 or even 20 years, when most of these laptops will have been sent to recycling.

I agree... SHOULDN'T.

But we're dealing with a superthin use of silicone, which CAN become brittle. Here in Arizona (where we even had a day of NEGATIVE humidity... how does THAT work?!) EVERYTHING becomes dry and brittle...and it takes far less than 10-20 years (depending upon the use, within 1-3 years).

 

[Guy Clark]

Had iFixit not revealed the membrane would Apple have confirmed. I have other suspicions however that the membrane is primarily there to make the butterfly keyboard allegedly quieter.

Is it not time for Apple to see sense and return to the scissor mechanism
https://theoutline.com/post/2402/the-new-macbook-keyboard-is-ruining-my-life?zd=1&zi=3p45iu2f

 

[Yvan256]

I think it says a lot about people who have little power or joy in their lives. Trashing a company and/or its CEO provides a bit of joy and the feeling of power. For a couple of minutes, anyway.

I think it says more about what Apple products used to be vs what they are today.

I know it's a cliché, but Apple really was different when Steve Jobs was there to say "no" to bad ideas. He was also a Mac user, so bad decisions were caught early in the design process.

We all know Tim Cook is an iPad user and I'm pretty sure he's not as confrontational as Steve Jobs was. Putting Jony Ive in charge of "everything" just made things worst because of his obsession with form over function.

 

[Nosferax]

next version

 

[kemal]

I'm lost on the issue of "tearing" the condom. iFixit shows a tweezer peeling back the silicone condom, which is necessary if one needs to fix the butterfly. So how could tearing the condom not be resolved by just replacing it for that one key? Why the whole top case? Are Apple unwilling to provide the condoms cause they could be retrofitted to 2016/7 laptops? With the condom in place, will 2018 MBPs in China no longer affect the wind in the US?

 

[Yvan256]

Here in Arizona (where we even had a day of NEGATIVE humidity... how does THAT work?!) EVERYTHING becomes dry and brittle.

Negative humidity? So... you open a bottle of water and some of it just evaporates instantly?

 

[AppleHaterLover]

Do you have any actual critique for his engineering/production timeframes? In the world of mass manufacturing his post is pretty much spot on. Anything released this year has been in the various stages of the pipeline for at least two years now. That’s how the world works.

"That's how the world works" is a good excuse for not providing flawed 2016 MacBook owners with an updated keyboard?

I'd like to believe that, since the issue was identified in 2016, the brand-new keyboard that solves the problem for 2016-17 owners is about to come out later this year. Right? Or Apple is just replacing the top case indefinetly? As a 2017 owner myself, it's hard to argue with guaranteed free battery replacements but I'd guess some people want a permanent fix?

If Ford recalls your car and replaces the defective part with an exact copy of it that WILL FAIL at some point instead of a fixed part, I'm sure you'd be already planning a Caribbean vacation wtih that lawsuit money.

I'm sure Apple is the richest company in the world because they pay $0 for their legal defense. people will do it for free.

 

[Martius]

A torn membrane would require a top case replacement?!?!

How green of them!

That is the most ridiculous, insane, mindblowing thing I have read in long time hope some car manufacturer won't get inspired by that... you know: broken gasket, let's replace the engine LOL, engineering masterpiece, Apple!

 

[MrGimper]

Busting the membrane requires a top-case replacement.... yeah, there's gonna be a lot of "stick the key caps back on and hope the customer doesn't notice" situations there...

 

[Yvan256]

next version

Probably the worst keyboard ever made to type on, but it would still work even if you poured a cup of dust and sand on top of it and just wiped it off with your bare hand.

 

[MrBat]

The article should have started by saying Apple Lied.

Last week they said it had nothing to do with dirt and was to make the keyboard quieter.

This is a lie, one that was easily shown after people had a chance to tear apart the new laptop.

I hope this is used in the lawsuits against them. They should also be fined for every time they charged a customer for a keyboard fix, as they were committing fraud and other violations of consumer laws.

Think about that. Apple has knows for a while now about the issue and denied it, whilst designing and manufacturing a new keyboard to fix the issue. They charged hundreds $$$ for a fix as they glued lots of components to the part with the keyboard, a bad design mistake and one that punishes the customer.

But they knew that charge was fraudulent as they were legally required to fix manufacturing and design defects.

Refunding people isn't enough, they should be compensated. To be defrauded of hundreds of $$$, thousands if you count their advertising about their great new keyboard is a material loss. People may have needed that money for other things, they might have gone into debt to pay for the repair.

I hope that too. Apple should be held accountable for faulty design and purposefully lying to the customer to cover up a design flaw.

Macbook Pro 2018 Core i9 #Throttlegate will be another nice one