Apple Confirms Music Deletion Glitch, Says Fix Incoming in Future iTunes Update

[Joseph C]

I hope this update next week is the "minor redesign" MacRumors have spoken about, with a new Music app for Mac announced at WWDC for launch around September. This would echo what Apple did with photos, leaving iPhoto and Photos running concurrently for a while before eventually discontinuing iPhoto.

 

[springsup]

Do you know who Jim Dalrymple is? He is one of the biggest Apple fan on the internet and personally invited to Apple's events all the time. So when one of Apple's biggest fan has the same problem (music getting deleted), I am doubtful it is user error.

http://www.loopinsight.com/2015/07/22/apple-music-is-a-nightmare-and-im-done-with-it/

Oh, you're completely right - it may be fact that Apple's engineers have been unable to replicate the problem, but one of those data points is Jim Dalrymple! If they can't replicate it, they must have screwed up! Jim's love of Apple naturally guides him through every pop up and dialog; it does not make mistakes.

That's not how debugging happens.

 

[maxsix]

I would've expected some sort of compensation for those affected.

Fairness and common sense are characteristics and considerations Apple does not extend to customers. Understanding the hypocrisy that infects Apple explains everything. They've built a billion dollar empire off the backs of customers that pay the premium prices, believe the hype, and go to Apple's defense as though they are a dear family member. It's an amazing sight, a true testimony to the supreme effectiveness of brilliant sales and marketing.

 

[ericwn]

If Apple would have just created a separate app for Apple Music this probably wouldn't have happened. Who uses iTunes anyways? Do people still buy songs?

There always has to be a troll-ish question in these discussions. Millions use iTunes. It used to be the world's biggest music reseller, and it's probably still up there. Next time you're interested in whether people still buy songs just think that after the couple million streaming folks there are a billion iOS devices left.
And this coulda-shoulda guessing game that if they did it in a different approach it wouldn't have happened - it happens in iTunes.

 

[ericwn]

Fairness and common sense are characteristics and considerations Apple does not extend to customers. Understanding the hypocrisy that infects Apple explains everything. They've built a billion dollar empire off the backs of customers that pay the premium prices, believe the hype, and go to Apple's defense as though they are a dear family member. It's an amazing sight, a true testimony to the supreme effectiveness of brilliant sales and marketing.

Yeah, cause Apple is just sales and marketing. Right. That's why you post here in a user forum.

If software companies would pay compensation each and every time a bigger bug was discovered I guess we would hardly use computers today.

But sure, dive deep into your agenda about how apple built an empire on our "backs".

 

[AppleScruff1]

LOLz, 80% of macrumors readers are android trolls, and probably an even higher percentage of the staff writers.

I was thinking that 80% are paid Apple employees.

 

[gnipgnop]

Imagine if people tried to use these disappearing files theories at work...

Boss: where's the Excel file that I wanted you to update?
Employee: it seems to have disappeared from my computer.
Boss: how could that happen?
Employee: Excel is programmed to auto-delete user files from their computers.
Boss: what?!?
Employee: it's true. Take a look at this blog entry I found online. This guy also lost some Excel files and blamed it on Excel.
Boss: and?!?
Employee: that's proof. What more do you need?

 

[Juicy Box]

Imagine if people tried to use these disappearing files theories at work...

Boss: where's the Excel file that I wanted you to update?
Employee: it seems to have disappeared from my computer.
Boss: how could that happen?
Employee: Excel is programmed to auto-delete user files from their computers.
Boss: what?!?
Employee: it's true. Take a look at this blog entry I found online. This guy also lost some Excel files and blamed it on Excel.
Boss: and?!?
Employee: that's proof. What more do you need?

Bad example since it is not just one guy complaining on his blog. Regardless of auto deleting or user error, Apple has a problem. This has been going on for over 6 months.

When this happened to my iTunes Match in November, the Apple support people blamed AM. I kept telling them that I did not have an AM account, but they had so many other people call in saying that their music was gone after canceling their free trial, they assumed the same happened to me.

 

[dan110]

Just because someone said it happened to them doesn't make it so. Sometimes it really is just user error. Apple certainly has a better leg to stand on here than the iPhone 4 Antenna design.

That makes no sense. There were multiple users complaining about this for months. If it were just one person screwing up their music no one would know or care.

 

[pickaxe]

Oh, you're completely right - it may be fact that Apple's engineers have been unable to replicate the problem, but one of those data points is Jim Dalrymple! If they can't replicate it, they must have screwed up! Jim's love of Apple naturally guides him through every pop up and dialog; it does not make mistakes.

That's not how debugging happens.

Enlighten me, beyond that thick layer of dull sarcasm, what are you trying to claim? That Jim fabricated his article, and that this bug is, in fact, not real?

Maybe your point is that actually being able to find and replicate bugs isn't part of an Apple QA engineer's job description?

Perhaps you're saying that it's acceptable for a media manager to even have the ability to delete user data without warning as part of its sync routine?

...either that, or you're a fanboy and snark is your coping mechanism when apple inevitably screws up. which does seem to happen more and more often lately.

 

[SusanK]

Tim Cook doesn't work on iTunes, he's the CEO of a very big company. If you fire your CEO every time something "bad" happens - regardless of how big or small that thing is, your company will go down the drain pretty quickly.

I am aware of the position he is compensation for. What does he do? Cutting ribbons, doing interviews and having charity lunches does not debug software. Noting innovative about it either. Time to put Cook on the work or get fired program.

 

[gnipgnop]

Bad example since it is not just one guy complaining on his blog. Regardless of auto deleting or user error, Apple has a problem. This has been going on for over 6 months.

It's a perfectly valid example, as files being "missing" is actually one of the most common experiences for business and consumers that have large volumes of files and folders that are either active or archived. And that's regardless of what software or OS is being used. This isn't some sort of new phenomenon. It's been around for as long as computers have been around, and theorizing that the software itself is "auto deleting" the missing files is one of the least likely explanations...by a wide margin.

The most likely explanations are rather routine things like file corruption, disk error/failure, or just general file storage fragmentation/mismanagement.

 

[tevion5]

This would never have happened under Steve Jobs. Not being funny.

Probably could have TBH.

But there would be public executions in the HQ main lobby afterwards.

 

[emm386]

Imagine a Microsoft application like Excel or Word deleting user files...without asking the user first...and THIS being intended program design... Literally hell would break loose! Programmers at Microsoft would probably get skinned.

And at Apple? It's always just a "tiny, insignificant fraction of users" being affected by a minor bug. No big deal. Apple is investigating. Update soon. maybe. The software update QA guy at Apple doesn't comes back to office before monday anyways.

 

[unplugme71]

When people tack "not being funny" onto the end of their posts, it means they ARE being funny (in the stupid meaning, not the humourous one), but are attempting to get a free pass by saying "not being funny". It's like saying to someone: "I really hate your Dad, no offence" as if the "no offence" tacked onto the end, negates the preceding, deliberate offence.
[doublepost=1463185427][/doublepost]

You're right - you're not funny AT ALL (nor even vaguely rational).

Yup, seems like the world we live in now is about saying the opposite of what you mean.

IE. I told a girl I liked her, and she said, wow, why don't you like me? Am I not pretty enough or skinny for you? :facepalm:

The society we live in today is ****. I am being funny.

 

[macfacts]

Imagine if people tried to use these disappearing files theories at work...

Boss: where's the Excel file that I wanted you to update?
Employee: it seems to have disappeared from my computer.
Boss: how could that happen?
Employee: Excel is programmed to auto-delete user files from their computers.
Boss: what?!?
Employee: it's true. Take a look at this blog entry I found online. This guy also lost some Excel files and blamed it on Excel.
Boss: and?!?
Employee: that's proof. What more do you need?

You are trying to be funny but that stuff does happen because MS added features, like macros and file manager features like deleting files to their word processor and spreadsheet programs. Open a .Doc file from an unknown user and it could be a virus that deletes your files on your harddrive.

Why does a word processor have file management functions like the ability to delete and move files? Who is using a word processor to organize their files?

Why does iTunes have file management functions like the ability to delete/move files? Who is using a music player to organize their files? It is like the one guy at Apple that was suppose to make a file manager for iOS walked into the wrong office and is now part of the itunes team.

 

[Juicy Box]

It's a perfectly valid example, as files being "missing" is actually one of the most common experiences for business and consumers that have large volumes of files and folders that are either active or archived. And that's regardless of what software or OS is being used. This isn't some sort of new phenomenon. It's been around for as long as computers have been around, and theorizing that the software itself is "auto deleting" the missing files is one of the least likely explanations...by a wide margin.

The most likely explanations are rather routine things like file corruption, disk error/failure, or just general file storage fragmentation/mismanagement.

The post I replied to said

Take a look at this blog entry I found online. This guy also lost some Excel files and blamed it on Excel.
......that's proof. What more do you need?

This sounds like the employee is using some guy's blog as absolute proof of auto deletion. But for the iTunes issues, it is happening a lot, and not just some random person's experience, and Apple has recognize that something is wrong

That is why I don't think it is a good example.

 

[hans1972]

There are people on this very thread who are still insisting there isn't a problem even though Apple has admitted there is one and that a fix is forthcoming. While others acknowledge the issue but still say it's the users fault for not having a backup. Its like a cult or something where the dear leader can do no wrong.

Apple has not acknowledged it as a bug since they can not reproduce it. All they acknowledged was the reports.

Apple has not said they will fix the bug as it can not be a bug until it is reproduced, they will only put in additional safeguards, but there is no guarantee that this will fix the problem or that there is a bug at all.

 

[lederermc]

It sounds like Apple believes this is users not realizing they are deleting their owned music. They'll probably throw up an additional warning message like, "Are you REALLY sure you want to delete forever all your music from all your devices?

 

[hans1972]

It was condescending to assert that it's user error. You really don't know. You're guessing. And that's fine - but that's all it is. I know several people (anecdotal, I know) that it has happened to.

It is not condescending or a random guess. In most cases, user error is the most likely cause. And that is something that is very common in all sort of human practices, from car driving to medicine. Human error is the most likely factor.

And Apple's original response was not that it was a glitch - but an intentional part of the matching service.

Can you point to such a response from Apple?

Now they (as they have in the past) are touting that it may be an issue, but only affects a small portion of their customers. This is the standard line Apple gives. They've done it several times before in regards to the iPhone, iMacs, MacBook Pros and other "issues."

Every software developer will agree with Apple that most bugs in released software only affects a minority of users. Why? Because the huge errors which affects everyone or large part of the users are discovered by the developer himself, the QA team or by the users very early. The difficult bugs which are discovered months or years after the release software have not been discovered exactly because they only happen to very few users or in extremely specific circumstances that most user will never experience.

You're taking it at face value that Apple can't replicate it because they said so. That's your prerogative.

Yes, I always assume that Apple is not lying about software bugs they can not reproduce. If you can point to previous examples where Apple have lied about not being able to reproduce software bugs or similar software issues, maybe I will change my mind.

I've been involved in software and hardware production and not every problem is "easily" replicated. There could be a bunch of different factors contributing to the glitch that have nothing to do with user error. We simply (and apparently Apple doesn't either) know.

No, but is almost safe to assume that user error has a huge probability of being the right answer.

 

[samcraig]

It is not condescending or a random guess. In most cases, user error is the most likely cause. And that is something that is very common in all sort of human practices, from car driving to medicine. Human error is the most likely factor.




Can you point to such a response from Apple?



Every software developer will agree with Apple that most bugs in released software only affects a minority of users. Why? Because the huge errors which affects everyone or large part of the users are discovered by the developer himself, the QA team or by the users very early. The difficult bugs which are discovered months or years after the release software have not been discovered exactly because they only happen to very few users or in extremely specific circumstances that most user will never experience.



Yes, I always assume that Apple is not lying about software bugs they can not reproduce. If you can point to previous examples where Apple have lied about not being able to reproduce software bugs or similar software issues, maybe I will change my mind.



No, but is almost safe to assume that user error has a huge probability of being the right answer.

I disagree.

 

[hans1972]

Fine, but I back up in case I screw up- I expect Apple not to screw up for me. It's not a PC after all. We pay a premium for a reliable system, but more and more I feel they don't give a damn about their customers.

You backup because you never know who will make a mistake. If you assume that the software and hardware makers are infallible, you will loose data.
[doublepost=1463334375][/doublepost]

I disagree.

Have you worked in IT support positions? I am pretty sure that everyone who has, will agree with me that human error is the most likely cause for computer problems.
[doublepost=1463334982][/doublepost]

Software deleting private data without asking the user for permission first is a very very serious issue.

Downplaying it with quotes such as "in an extremely small number of cases" is also very insulting to me as a customer...

It is not insulting when it is true. Most bugs in released software is only experienced by a minority of the users. Let say there is 20 reports of this and assume there is 20 million iTunes users. That is 0,0001% which is tiny. Even if 2000 users reported this, it would be 0,01%.

And you forgot to quote this part: "We're taking these reports seriously as we know how important music is to our customers and our teams are focused on identifying the cause."

 

[MacBH928]

How do I know if I got affected? I don't have Apple Music, but I have tens of songs(media) on my library I want to keep, I don't want to look 5 years later and notice one was missing.

 

[nt5672]

How do we know that the people responsible aren't being taken to task for this issue?
. . . .

By the fact that the bugs have become more apparent and more frequent. It signals a process problem which is a management problem not a coder problem. It signals a process that is getting worse, not better. Either unqualified people are working on the code, team or senior management does not care about code quality (at least to the extent that it effects delivery dates), QA is not being taken seriously by Marketing or Management, or senior management just does not care about bugs in relation to new development.

The people to be held accountable are managers, not engineers.

 

[0098386]

At least you get replacements. Consider if you are using other manufacturers' devices, and see if you can get the same level of support.

EU law dictates if a device is faulty within 2 years you get a replacement. Apple once tried to challenge this ( http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/mac/eu-law-forces-apple-highlight-two-year-warranty-3348755/ ) , preferring customers buy Apple Care. So no it doesn't matter who made it, I'd still get a replacement. I arranged a replacement for my parents Samsung tablet a few years ago without any fuss.