Apple debuting two-button mouse?

[jiv3turkey748]

Don't forget, for pbook/ibook users, a 2 button mouse will use twice as much power. If you also take into account operational power consumption (i.e. energy user must expend in order to use the button), this figure will rise dramatically, thus resulting in a decrease in mouse efficiency.

honestly if ms computers can power a two button mouse i think an apple laptop can .....i mean come on i really hope your joking

 

[ReanimationLP]

Hes OBVIOUSLY pulling your chain.

When I saw this, my jaw hit the floor.

 

[rockandrule]

So, how about everyone hooks up their one-button, two-button, three-button, five-button, and Wacom tablets all at the same time? We all have USB ports. I presume a "power user" might want the flexibility of having all of these at their finger tips!

My girlfriend just bought her first Wacom on Saturday. Definitely a neat little device. Great with the hand writting recognition. At leasts a million times easier to use than the damned PDA writting software. I like the little thing, but I'm not much of an artists, so I won't be picking one up. In the mean time, it's great for just using it as a "mouse".

 

[elo]

Well, just to show different people have different preferences: I love the white Apple mouse. I didn't like the blue round mouse (but I managed to use it) but this design I find perfect. I don't know about the wireless one (other people said it was too heavy) but the standard is perfect for me. I can just rest my wrist on the table and with a very slight movement (holding the mouse with 2 fingers) reach the whole screen. I hate mice that try to fit into the palm of my hand, as I don't move my hand to move the mouse, mostly just move my fingers. Also it would alienate left handed people...

I think Apple's mouse is very well designed as a "standard" mouse. If anyone needs something more specific, they can buy exactly what they need...

(Edit: BTW, at least with the standard mouse you can click and lift the mouse by holding it by the sides where they are white and not part of the button)

You've described the correct way to use a mouse. Using a palm mouse is akin to palming a pencil. Personal preferences not withstanding, mice that fill the palm are simply less efficient than using your fingers while anchoring your hand on the table (just as you would use a pencil). You'll *never* see a designer with a giant Microsoft mouse, even though they track quite well. Pointing accuracy would be compromised by the shape of the mouse.

 

[ReanimationLP]

Maybe they'll take it a step further and give us a scroll wheel

 

[spinko]

I think the whole idea would be to go after the ignorant masses who don't get the one-button thing (or think the one button mouse is inferior).

I personally love the one-button mouse; I think it is one of the things that makes a Mac a Mac.

I prefer a second button to a (left hand) control (right hand) click... oh, and a scroll wheel is better than (eyes) look hard for the little scroll arrow (right hand) center the mouse arrow on it [difficult because the mouse is so jumpy] (right hand) click and hold (eyes) check right side, check left side (right hand) move mouse .....

 

[Rod Rod]

summary (although this probably isn't over)

I honestly don't think it is a "preference" issue. I think it is a stubbornness/pride/zealot issue more than anything else.

Interesting spin.

The thing is powerusers are going to get the most use out of whatever configuration they have. They have extensive practice, know all the short-cuts, etc. The average new user on the other hand, is not going to know where the 'command' key is.

I was an average new user once. Then I paid attention to those helpful keyboard shortcuts that are revealed on those pull-down menus. I figured out what those symbols meant (cloverleaf, up arrow, etc).

People who are pro 1-button Apple mouse are just elitist mac snobs. (yeah, you know who you are)

I know you were being sarcastic but the bad thing about this particular thread is all the name-calling going on by people who are being serious.

the whole reason mac has continued to use a one button mouse up til now is the ease of use for the common user. it also forces developers to create software that wont confuse your common user because there will always be one way of doing the same thing in all programs... that seems a little confusing as i type it, but i hope u understand if ur reading this. a 2 button mouse is not a horrible idea, but for your common user that has had their mac for a while now and "forgets" how to use windows, this would be somewhat confusing, not knowing that right clicking brings up the menus that are brought up when they hold down the ctrl. the biggest reason i can see for a 2 button mouse is the reason listed on the main page, and that is for your "switchers" who are switching from windows. a one button mouse is confusing for them. for a period of time or until mac os 11 i see apple selling both one button and two button mice.

Your post was so confusing . . . you must be a 2-button mouse user.

I'd buy that!!!
But I also bought the Apple BT Mouse and used it for about 5 days before digging out my old Apple mouse (BT mouse too heavy)

It's heavy until you figure out that mice are usually pushed around and rarely picked up. I like the solid feel that the added mass gives the Apple wireless mouse.

Why is that at all important? There are plenty of great multi-button mice out there from Logitech and others, even ones that blend better with Apple hardware than Apple's own mice (Apple still ships white/clear plastic mice and keyboards with PowerMacs, when clearly a silvery/metallic look would be more appropriate).

The current Apple keyboard and mouse are appropriate to the look of the Power Mac G5.

Apple's entire line of Cinema Displays (primarily intended for use with Power Mac G5s) have white plastic sides. All PowerBooks have white power adapters with white/light gray wires. The Bluetooth and Airport Extreme antennas for Power Mac G5s are white.

iMac G5s are mostly white but with aluminum stands. Mac minis are white on top with aluminum on the sides.

The current Apple "look" is a combination of white and aluminum, and the only two Apple computers without this combination are the eMac and iBook.

You do the same thing in Apple programs like FCP. You have to right-click to fish for options. Sorry, but that argument doesn't fly.

I wish I had a keyboard shortcut for "join through edit." I tried mapping that command by getting into the keyboard customization window, but "join through edit" is not among the choices! So, the only way for me to execute it is ctrl-clicking or right-clicking.

if you have to "fish for options", then you clearly do not know what you are doing. after you have learnt what you do, you know what you want and how to get it. just think about it - is it the computer that tries to teach you or you that tries to teach the computer? i believe the wiser of the two is always the user.

I wish I could teach my computer a keyboard shortcut for "join through edit." I'd rather do everything through the keyboard in FCP because the less I touch the mouse, the faster I edit (no matter how many buttons may be on the mouse).

They're updating Airport Express as well, including a digital out.

Dude, the Express has always had optical digital out. All you need is a $3 Radio Shack adapter to make use of it.

GREAT NEWSSSSS!!!!

Finally Steve is letting his brain kick in before his heart (ego).

Maybe the id (impulsively seeking satisfaction in the form of profits) is overtaking the superego (which has restrained Apple from designing a multi-button mouse) which in turn has convinced the ego of the intuitiveness of the status quo ante multus praepilatus mus muris.

I can't believe I'm actually responding to this one.

But...what if Apple release a new mouse similar to the mouse they currently sell, but is configurable?

Hear me out, by default it's a two button mouse you lean on the front left hand side and it clicks a left mouse click, you lean on the front right hand side and clicks a right mouse click.

However in the mouse properties you can set it up for the new two button mouse or a single button mouse which works the way we all know and hate (hell, I don't even use a mouse, I use a trackball).

Sounds simple to me and everyone would be happy.

Whatever...

. . . sure, they'd be happy until all that tilting messes up their wrists. whatever.

scrolling can be done with the keyboard? how?

I'm happy this thread brought out a tutorial on how to scroll web pages with a keyboard. Thank you pizzach and rikers_mailbox.

It's click is too stiff even on the low resistance setting.And, with the Bluetooth version, you CANNOT lift the mouse and keep it clicked while lifting (i.e. if you 'run out' of mousing space).

You got a bad mouse. I can click and hold with my Apple wireless mouse. It takes a little bit more effort than with the wired mouse, but it's doable. From reading your posts though I guess your hands are bigger than average, considering that those tabs on the sides of the mouse are too small for you.

This thread is starting to get too gay for me. Bye y'all.

I'm offended by that statement, but then again you're one of the most prolific posters in this thread. (j/k) edit: since you edited your comment maybe I should edit the above quote?

 

[Vanilla]

Apologies if this has been discussed already but IMO the new Trackpad scrolling function is a clear sign that Apple is moving towards multi-function input devices.

Previously, the argument was that Apple insisted an input device should be single function point & click with ancillary functions such as scrolling and right-clicking relegated to keyboard functions. The Apple mouse and Apple Trackpad adhered strictly to this philosophy.

Now we have a new multi-function Trackpad that in addition to point & click can also scroll and of course the Apple masses (myself included) applaud enthusiastically.

In my opinion it can only be a matter of time before the Apple Mouse follows suit in some ingenious way and I am equally certain that whatever the final format will also be enthusiastically received.

Vanilla

 

[Lacero]

Aside from the lack of buttons and wheels, INMHO, I believe Apple has been downright stupid in their mice design for years. The hockey puck mice from the late 90s were a design nightmare. You could not easily tell tactilely or visually which way was up, literally. They were awkward to click, and just funny looking. To the left of me I have an "Apple Pro Mouse" that is a current offering from them. Someone gave it to me when I first got my powerbook, and its pretty horrible as well. Being that it is oblong, its easier to orient than the hockey puck guy, but instead of having 1, 2, or 3 buttons, they decided to have 0, and in some awkward motion your supposed to click with the whole forward half of the mouse. Another feature of this design is that the few times that I used it, it was not uncommon for the cable to get stuck underneath of the forward part that moved, and you could not click until you moved the cable away. Not to mention that none of the Apple mice have a scroll wheel. To be honest, I could care less about a scroll wheel. Scrolling by page either by the space bar or page up/down is fine, if not preferable at times. I use the scroll wheel because it is there under my finger, but I find it gets uncomfortable on my tendons with much use.

What kills me about Apple's resistance for multibutton and scroll mice, is that they work so flawlessly and intuitively software wise in their OS. For example, the scroll wheel works very nicely in framed webpages. The right or secondary button is basically mapped to "Control+left click", which opens up a world of options. For example, if I right click on a downloaded item in the "Downloads" window in the Safari web browser, I have the options to open, show the file in the finder (file manager), copy the address or URL that the download came from (handy), and remove the download from the list. In GUI design, this is called "direct manipulation", like drag and drop, double clicking, etc. Its a good thing. I do wish that Apple would extend this further and add hooks to the context or "right click" menu in the finder like Windows does. Again, this adds to direct manipulation of the files. I love the fact that you can choose to enqueue a media file or play the file via the context menu in Windows. There is no such thing in Apple land.

 

[fraggle]

You mean the 21st century, which will last from 2000-2099.

Just picking nits but the 21st century lasts from 2001 to 2100 (there was no year 0).

 

[fraggle]

Wild futurist projection.....

Haptics (e.g hand gesture recognition) and voice control will rule in 2020. We will be talking to our computer in most cases rather than using a keyboard, as it will be faster unless you are a mega typist.

I disagree. I do not see voice input as a good way to interact with a computer unless it has a really advanced AI which I do not see happening anytime soon (or later).

Also: A lot of companies would need sound proof cubicles... Imagine a room were everyone is talking at the same time in order to communicate with his computer -> Nightmare!

BTW: There was a nice Dilbert about voice recognition that I can't find at the moment

We will be using gestures and movements of our hands to control the interface, it will be much more than a simple one click action, many hand/finger actions will be recognised to move, scroll, open, close, rotate in 3D etc etc.

Also not something I look forward to: Currently your arms lie on the table all day. How do you think would an 8-hour day be when you have to use your arms all the time to make gestures to move things in 3d-cyberspace?

Well, it might be a great fitness training

Just like in real life, our hands will be returned to their proper role as nimble manipulator, mice of all varieties make very limited use of our natural gestures and capabilites. Haptics will be hugely more productive than any mouse, and yet software will be easier to learn as gestures are an instinctive human communication/action.

The problem as described above is that in "real life" you do not use your arms constantly but let them rest most of the time. From an evolutionary point of view arms have not been used to manipulate things for hours at a time...

And for the computer to understand these gestures again a lot of AI is required that I just can't see developing in quite some time.

 

[Chappers]

I've got seven buttons but my fingers are not long enough to reach them all.

Maybe Apple could offer a choice of one or two button mousi

 

[F/reW/re]

Press on the picture and drag it a small way, but not off the window, and release so it springs back. The picture is now selected. Choose Copy from the Edit menu.

Nope, I tried on pictures posted in this forum, it dosent work...
And how on earth is that more intuitive than right click/save picture to clipboard?

 

[F/reW/re]

That's a good point about the clipboard, one that I haven't thought about. So yes, there are isolated cases where CTRL-clicking is required. Of course you could drag the image to the desktop and drag it from there, but it certainly is quite a bit more work than copying directly to the clipboard. In many cases you can simply drag the image directly onto the app you want it to open up with. This does not apply to Safari, I know, but it's a Safari-specific problem, not OS X-specific.

I suppose we are using quite different applications on Windows then, because I really am not able to operate the OS or it's apps without two buttons. Let me assure you, there are tons of apps that are only usable with a two-button mouse, and that's because so much of windows is right-click centric. I'm sure there are apps that don't require both buttons, say Photoshop for example (just a random app that popped in my mind), but I would claim that the majority of shareware and freeware apps really do. Even Office does to a very large degree. I was just listening to a friend talk about how impossible it is to use Excel with a PowerBook without an external mouse, for example.

If you are testing websites with a one-button mouse, then naturally you won't have problems. I assume you meant that you use Windows regularly with a one-button mouse and find it unproblematic. I can't agree, but it's not worth fighting over.

How do I attach a Folder Action to a folder on my desktop without using right/ctrl click?

I agree on Photoshop, the only times I use right-click in PS is when I adjust/change brush(size). I can't drag the picture directly from the web into Photoshop on my Mac, but on my PC I can... The Windows version got some nice shortcuts that the Macversion is without.. but I like Photoshop on Mac better.. But Macromedia Flash sucks bigtime..

 

[bigandy]

im not sure about the need for an apple 2btn mouse, but i do believe if they do it, and they've been working hard on it, it definately will be a device so beautiful, and functional, it makes others look really crap.

 

[Chappers]

im not sure about the need for an apple 2btn mouse, but i do believe if they do it, and they've been working hard on it, it definately will be a device so beautiful, and functional, it makes others look really crap.

I'm with you on that - good point - although their previous attempts have looked good but.......

 

[Swift]

One potato, two potato, three potato four

Honestly, what a big argument over so little. I am forced to work with Windows at work. I have a two button mouse with a little wheelie thing. Well, you have to right-click to run that Windows contraption: there's no menu on the top of the screen. And the scroll wheel -- does anybody know that you can just hit the space bar in most Mac apps, or hit the down arrow? Oh, and there's this thing called... the option-click. You ought to try it sometime.

If you're comfortable with a Windows mouse, then fine, use it. If you want to bolt a mouseball on your forehead, use that too. I started with Macs in 1985, so I've never seen why people want two buttons. Must be bad Windows programming, to have common commands hiding in Start menus and right-clicks. But, I mean, whatever. It doesn't matter. Bring on your two-button Apple mouse with the attitude adjuster, Apple. Or the orgasmic, telepathic brain mouse that looks like Angelina Jolie -- though I'd never get any work done that way. Move along, folks. Nothing to see here.

 

[geese]

Just picking nits but the 21st century lasts from 2001 to 2100 (there was no year 0).

Pol Pott might have something to say about that!

 

[Tinhead]

I agree on Photoshop, the only times I use right-click in PS is when I adjust/change brush(size). I can't drag the picture directly from the web into Photoshop on my Mac, but on my PC I can... The Windows version got some nice shortcuts that the Macversion is without.. but I like Photoshop on Mac better.. But Macromedia Flash sucks bigtime..

Macromedia Studio apps are a great example of what happens when the Windows design approach is directly mirrored to OS X. All their applications have horrid usability and use of space. This is exactly the kind of stuff that does not belong to OS X and Macromedia should definitely redesign these apps for OS X (hell, wouldn't hurt to redesign them for Windows, too). Most of the commercial applications available both for Win and OS X have put the emphasis on the Win version because of economics, and this is what you get. Frankly, I don't feel like fueling Win developers with a two-button mouse and their oh-so-convenient context menus.

Photoshop does indeed feel more like an OS X app than a Windows app to me, even though some things are truly omitted from the OS X version, as you pointed out.

ps. I thought the Finder had a special button for folder actions, seems like it doesn't indeed include "folder actions" as you correctly pointed out. That's another isolated example of where the one-button approach consistency is broken. I'm sure there are more of these examples, but they don't undermine the fact that OS X is designed for a single-button input device. I consider these omissions as bugs at best.

 

[Swift]

The Critical Button Shortage

What kills me about Apple's resistance for multibutton and scroll mice, is that they work so flawlessly and intuitively software wise in their OS. For example, the scroll wheel works very nicely in framed webpages. The right or secondary button is basically mapped to "Control+left click", which opens up a world of options. For example, if I right click on a downloaded item in the "Downloads" window in the Safari web browser, I have the options to open, show the file in the finder (file manager), copy the address or URL that the download came from (handy), and remove the download from the list.

When I option-click on your words, I have the option of viewing the source, saving the page and printing the page. Your point is?

You've worked with two-button mice. You're used to two-button mice. You think, therefore, it's good design. Well, it's okay. There shoud be an Apple two-button mouse available to you. Meanwhile, I see no reason to change. Anything you can do, I can do with one button. That's one button saved, and that can provide mouse buttons for little kids in Africa. How can you be so heartlessly cruel?

 

[alex_ant]

Could someone who has been following this discussion please post a 1-paragraph summary? I want to respond but I don't want to repeat anything that's already been said.

 

[F/reW/re]

Could someone who has been following this discussion please post a 1-paragraph summary? I want to respond but I don't want to repeat anything that's already been said.

A couple of weeks ago Apple released new PowerBooks with scrolling on the trackpad. Everybody was happy, why? Because this is a great future!
Now, it's talk about a two button scrollmouse and some hardcore Mac wannabe's think this is wrong.. why? Because the PC had it first? The PC also had scrolling on the trackpad first! Because we don't need it? You don't need a mouse at all, why don't we go back to DOS?!

Windows has got many features Apple should copy, just like they did with fast user switching! We're in the freaking 2005, we have supercomputers and we know how to handle a two-button mouse!
Set up your extra mouse-buttons with exposé, it rocks and the PC-nerds loves it too!

 

[BillHarrison]

Meanwhile, I see no reason to change. Anything you can do, I can do with one button. That's one button saved, and that can provide mouse buttons for little kids in Africa. How can you be so heartlessly cruel?

You can Ctrl-Click with only one button? Thats a neat trick! Last time I tried it, it took a keypress, and a button to pull off. Whats your secret?

I am just pointing out, that no matter how you slice it, your using 2 buttons too. They are just in different spots. Is it just me, or does it not make more sense to have the 2 buttons right next to each other? I can do most of my surfing / etc without having to lay a finger on the keyboard. I would call this streamlining. Personally, I could care less how many people use 1 button mice. For all I care, you could unplug it and use keyboard shortcuts.

But having to find the buttons on a keyboard to do what you can easily do with 1 finger on a mouse, requires 2 hands for you. Tell me that makes sense in a "user friendly" argument. Hey, over here u can simply hit one button, and get the contextual menu your looking for, but over here, you have to find a key, hold it, click, release said key. One button mouse = 2 times the clicking to do the same task when it comes to contextual menus.

 

[maka]

A couple of weeks ago Apple released new PowerBooks with scrolling on the trackpad. Everybody was happy, why? Because this is a great future!
Now, it's talk about a two button scrollmouse and some hardcore Mac wannabe's think this is wrong.. why? Because the PC had it first? The PC also had scrolling on the trackpad first! Because we don't need it? You don't need a mouse at all, why don't we go back to DOS?!

Windows has got many features Apple should copy, just like they did with fast user switching! We're in the freaking 2005, we have supercomputers and we know how to handle a two-button mouse!
Set up your extra mouse-buttons with exposé, it rocks and the PC-nerds loves it too!

that is not a summary of the thread. That kind of response takes away all your credibility...

Apple doesn't need to copy Windows features, it's always been the other way around, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe fast user switching is something that unix systems had first, and as OS X is a unix system it's perfectly normal for Apple to implement it too...

 

[Lacero]

I think the rumored tactic of shipping a two-button mouse as an option is fine, but I don't ever want to see Apple ship a mouse with more than one button with the computers, for one simple reason. I've spent too much time trying to get computer novices to understand what a second button does, and many never get it. (these are the same people who never quite get the difference between a click and a double-click - when you throw another unlabeled button on the mouse, they lose it.)