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Actually, that's what many within Apple and the developers ARE saying. They're saying that the latest builds were actually worse than the earlier ones, more buggy, more problems, etc.
I am one of those developers ... with access to Leopard builds. If you look for my posts in the past threads I have hinted that those expecting it to be early are misguided.

That doesn't conflict with the statement I just made... progress is being made and with progress comes the exposure of more things that could have bugs. Again in general I don't see a trend that is much outside what happened with 10.4 or 10.3 before it.
 
Ok, so Apple just got done bragging about selling its 100 millionth iPod and over 2.5 billion songs. If you calculate this out...that is one hell of a lot of money and yet Apple is too damn cheap to hire a few people to work on that stupid iPhone? Well, that cool...stupid iPhone...:)

Give me a break! This is definitely the era of CHEAP in regard to companies and Apple is leading the pack!!!

WAY TO GO CHEAPSKATES!:mad:
 
Also, I have another topic I'd like to discuss. So, today, Apple said that the feature list will be frozen by June, and a "finalised" beta will be out by June, yet the actual release of it won't be until October? I have a feeling either some revolutionary new feature/technology/perhaps interface is coming, or the cat will come much sooner than we're told.


My take on this is that Leopard is having MAJOR problems. Apple worries that Leopard won't even be ready by WWDC. This statement gives them a big window to release Leopard. But they need to stagger the bad news. I suspect they WON'T release a finalized beta in June. They will then make up some other delay story, maybe something like "We didn't anticipate the tremendous response iPhone had, so we now want to include iPhone features in Leopard to give you the best OS, which pushes the finalized beta to October."
 
I'm a PC user and was about to buy my first Mac. The New OSX has been delayed again and to be honest I'm losing interest. As much as I hate Vista it's here and now!!! Apple Inc. seems to have lost interest in there Computers also. The Suspense is gone now I'm just mad. I mean First appletv, Then iPhone, Next ibegone! Someone please talk me into staying the course.
I know the feeling. I've been very happy with my Macbook and Tiger. I've been recommending Apple to everyone. But as time has worn on, what had been good prices have become horrible prices. Do a price check these days. Hard drive and memory prices continue to drop, but not on Apple's website.
Same configurations, same prices. No longer competitive.

I was planning to get a new Mac Mini C2D with 802.11n with Leopard whenever Leopard came out. I no longer have confidence that there will be a Mini C2D before October. Too long to wait. I too am losing interest. I'm going to find another solution and unfortunately I can no longer recommend Apple at these prices and without some evidence that they are still a computer company.
 
My take on this is that Leopard is having MAJOR problems. Apple worries that Leopard won't even be ready by WWDC. This statement gives them a big window to release Leopard. But they need to stagger the bad news. I suspect they WON'T release a finalized beta in June. They will then make up some other delay story, maybe something like "We didn't anticipate the tremendous response iPhone had, so we now want to include iPhone features in Leopard to give you the best OS, which pushes the finalized beta to October."

I bet that at WWDC we will see a nearly feature complete Leopard (always a little gray area what exactly is complete and isn't). Feature complete doesn't mean bug free... Apple will primarily fixing bugs after WWDC.

Personally I more worried about the state of Leopard developer tools then Leopard itself.
 
Jeez, you'd think the world was ending... It's impossible to read all these posts, so I'll just shout into the wind here.

First: stop with all the stupid Microsoft analogies. Leopard slipped a quarter, Vista slipped years and all of that time Vista was busy shedding promised features. Schedules slip, it's a fact of business and a fact of life.

Second: Apple was able to say the rumors weren't true because the schedule is the same until it changes. Today it changed. Before today, Apple's official position was that they were shipping in June. Even if every developer realized they weren't going to make their deadline, nobody in the company will talk about a change before the change is official and the PR machine is up to date on it. I suppose they could have let the rumors stand, but generally things are denied until they're true.

Third: Apple couldn't have solved this problem by hiring. It sounds like these were individuals with unique skills who were transferred across programs, not bullpen coders. Regardless, staffing up in the middle of a project will only serve to make it later-- it takes too long for developers to train.

Fourth: Apple is properly focusing their attention on their highest profile release. I always thought there was a bit much schedule for June, something had to give. Can't slip the iPhone because it's too hot, Leopard was the obvious choice. Right thing to do. If the phone slips there's no phone, if Leopard ships there's Tiger.

I've been looking forward to Leopard, but I'm not going to cut my wrists over this...
 
Exactly that was in the realm of basic / opportunistic core-affinity I was think about would be possible on Tiger ... I just didn't know it was already in place :)

Also since those checks exist they have a blueprint of locations to add in additional functionality... logic that could start to evaluate topology information.

Like I said I doubt they would update Tiger with more capabilities but it is feasible that they could.

Well, it is feasible in the same sense that it is feasible in Leopard. The work has to get done, and it isn't going to be easy. The current scheduler and OS kernel are not designed for it.

I do have an interesting observation/hack that might help an app do better on the 8-core:

Possibility #1: Create 7 heavy work threads instead of 8. If your app is the only heavy load, I suspect it would greatly reduce the unnecessary core shifts.

Possibility #2: Create 7 or 8 heavy work threads, and set their priority higher than Normal. This will probably hurt responsiveness, and could cause bad side effects on the system, but the current scheduler will NOT bump a higher priority thread for a lesser priority thread.

These solutions would have to be tested, and Major app developers are unlikely to adopt them; but for anyone out there who is looking for a workaround, that might be it.
 
Jeez, you'd think the world was ending... It's impossible to read all these posts, so I'll just shout into the wind here.

First: stop with all the stupid Microsoft analogies. Leopard slipped a quarter, Vista slipped years and all of that time Vista was busy shedding promised features. Schedules slip, it's a fact of business and a fact of life.

Second: Apple was able to say the rumors weren't true because the schedule is the same until it changes. Today it changed. Before today, Apple's official position was that they were shipping in June. Even if every developer realized they weren't going to make their deadline, nobody in the company will talk about a change before the change is official and the PR machine is up to date on it. I suppose they could have let the rumors stand, but generally things are denied until they're true.

Third: Apple couldn't have solved this problem by hiring. It sounds like these were individuals with unique skills who were transferred across programs, not bullpen coders. Regardless, staffing up in the middle of a project will only serve to make it later-- it takes too long for developers to train.

Fourth: Apple is properly focusing their attention on their highest profile release. I always thought there was a bit much schedule for June, something had to give. Can't slip the iPhone because it's too hot, Leopard was the obvious choice. Right thing to do. If the phone slips there's no phone, if Leopard ships there's Tiger.

I've been looking forward to Leopard, but I'm not going to cut my wrists over this...

Well said! Far better statement then I have so far been able to put out in this thread.
 
What about all that stuff about the iPhone basically being done, but coming out in June because they needed to wait for FCC approval? Grrr..

I'm intensely disappointed. I'm not going to say that Apple did the right/wrong thing or whatever, because who knows what goes on in Cupertino, but I was one of the many for whom June would have been the perfect time for a complete computer refresh. New hardware, new OS, new apps... fresh, clean, and smooth, with at least the assumption that they were all meant to work together in harmony.

:mad:
 
So how many people are still going to wait to buy a new system until Leopard is released?

I'm not sure I can wait the extra time...I have been fighting the urge to go out and get a MBP... a companion piece for my MB...

We will just have to see....this means extra strong coffee to suppress the urge!!!!
 
I'm not ready to fly off the handle...

OK, so we are talking about a 3-4 month delay. How long was XP delayed? How long was Vista delayed? Wasn't it like years???

Get it right Apple!

Think of it - there is a lot of switching going on lately and with more halo affect from iPods and iPhones likely, lots more eyes are going to be on Apple. This could be their most important OS release and one to certainly not flop!! So, Get it right, take your time and we'll see you in October.

That being said, awe sh*t!
 
Mac upgrades? I think for sure. Apple simply must upgrade all consumer Macs well before September/October. Not to do so would bring Mac sales down to a virtual trickle. Apple won't allow that to happen.
Why not? They're a consumer electronics company. Santa Rosa coming out in May. At the brisk development pace Apple has set this year, it can easily take them 5 months to rework new Macs for an October splash. But by then, Leopard maybe delayed after all the complaints of missing "secret" features that won't be shown in June.
 
Now all Mac users can't laugh at Vista's delayed anymore... :p

A four month delay is hardly in the same league as the THREE YEAR delay of Longhorn (Vista).

We've had 5 major OS releases since 2001 to a whopping TWO major Windows releases.

Let's stop behaving like spoiled children shall we?
 
Applecalypse Now!

Err... I mean in October :rolleyes:

On a lighter note, to all those smart alecs who kept reminding everyone that June 21 is technically still Spring (after it became clear that Leopard wouldn't be released by April): so is December 21, south of the Tropic of Capricorn :D
 
New topic- Hardware promise from Apple?

Will Apple be willing to announce that 100% of Leopard features will function on the currently available MB/MBP and iMacs? If they do, lots of people would buy today. Why wouldn't Apple be willing to announce this. They'd sell a lot more macs now.

If they don't, then my assumption is that the rumored new interface with multitouch/touchscreen? is heavily used by Leopard and I for one am going to WAIT.

Any thoughts?
 
so many people here are postponing a mac until it comes with leopard preinstalled. if they update the hardware this summer as was rumored, people can install leopard when it is ready. does a system run better with the preinstalled operating system or something?
Remember its not just Leopard. New machines also come with the latest version of iLife. Assuming there's an iLife07 or 08 coming with Leopard you also have to buy that upgrade as well.
 
I know I've already added my two cents, but boy, am I still steamed about this one. I don't got much frivolties in life: I'm not someone who follows the sports teams or watches pictures of naked ladies. I get my entertainment coming to Macrumors every few minutes to get a taste of what might be coming from Apple. And boy has their been a drought of OS X rumors. So today, not only do I not get any rumors, I get delays!

According to my calculations, Apple was due to release Leopard in 61 days!!!!!

Did they just today, 61 days before the release, realize they would need an additional 202 days to release it!!!!!?????

They really thought they were going to pull it off all those times they told investors that they would???
 
iphone will make them tons of money, leopard won't

No way.

I'd planed on spending a few $K after Leopard was released and not a dime on a Apple Phone. I suspect there are many more people like me who are waiting for Leopard to replace some older Macs. I had planned to buy just after WWDC But now maybe that money I would have given to Apple will go to other places. I'll keep the G4s a bit longer.

I really don't need a phone.
 
I bet Stevie J. is FUMING.

I sincerely hope so. Although I have this bad inclination that he's not. I think the iPhone is his little baby and isn't really paying much attention to anything else at this point, almost a 99% one-track-mind.

God do I hope he is fuming though, it would at least offer a bit of optimism that he could give a _ about the Mac [Mac meaning the desktop/laptop Macs that really matter]
 
"we had to borrow some key software engineering and QA resources from our Mac OS(R) X team, and as a result we will not be able to release Leopard at our Worldwide Developers Conference in early June as planned."


Whot next, an icoffeegrinder? an iwoopie cushion?

He actually took people away from developing an operating system ... for a *$^#*&@ telephone!?!

Not for a million backdated shares of stock would I buy this ... thing ...
 
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