I hope you are right...if they do then I will buy my MBP regardless if Leopard is out or not...
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Apple Delays Leopard Release
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I hope you are right...if they do then I will buy my MBP regardless if Leopard is out or not...
Did they? Seriously? Apple fans, sure, but I don't actually remember Apple themselves doing this. But maybe they did. And let me repeat, once more, that if Longhorn had been delayed by a few months or so, or even a year or so, nobody would have said much of anything. And it wasn't just the delay, which went on and on and on and on, it was the Big! Kewl! Features! that were supposed to make the whole thing revolutionary, but after all that they they just got dropped anyway.
Probably. Apple isn't exactly known for being straightforward and truthful. "Nobody cares about flash-based music players and we aren't going to make one...oh wait, look at this awesome new iPod Shuffle! Buy one! Ignore what I just said!" (Plenty more examples where that came from....)
--Eric
But Vista was delayed by years mostly in groups of monthly increments. However at this late in the game, I think this is more like Vista's final delay than the earlier ones.
If we're having this conversation in January 2008, then I think the complaints would carry more weight. And the analogy still wouldn't be accurate even then because Apple hasn't shed any publicly announced features yet.
My money is still on Apple having performance measures with AT&T/Cingular to deliver iPhone by a certain date and they were going to miss it and suffer a financial penalty, so Apple made a business decision. Unlike consumer electronics, normally telco equipment providers can't just deliver "whenever". There are financial penalties for missing key dates.
Anybody who expected anything other than a delay from Apple on Leopard needs a reality check. I am as bummed as anyone that it got pushed back - but come on! In all of the recent builds, Leopard is still plagued by bugs, no new special features. How on earth was that stuff gonna get fixed and worked out by June??? I think everyone knew deep down that this was going to happen. Everyone should know not to take Apple at their word - how many products did they delay in recent years? 15" alum PB, 3 ghz g5 chip, imac g5, AppleTV, on and on and on. Apple's statements mean absolutely nothing and everyonse should know it by know.
On the positive side, can I look forward to 10.4.10 in the near future????
On the positive side, can I look forward to 10.4.10 in the near future????
??? IE7 is a huge change (whether or not it's an improvement is debateable). IE 5.5 to IE 6 or 6.5 was minor. The move to IE7 was a bigger jump than any Safari, Firefox, or Opera release (since version 4). The Interface is completely changed, searching, tabs, Quicktabs, RSS, completely new rendering engine (doesn't even work with much of the old IE6 stuff), XPS built in, security, etc.
.Net 3.0 is to Win32 what Cocoa is to Carbon. It's a completely new (well at least the WPF, WWF, and WCF part) way to build Windows apps.
True enough.
No, it's a total rewrite of D3D.
LOL. Panther to Tiger was a very very small update. Spotlight, Dashboard, Automator, CoreImage/Video... that's pretty much it.
Again, adding .NET 3.0 to the system was like adding Cocoa to the Mac OS. Then you got Microsoft's equivalent to Quartz/Quartz Extreme/Quartz2D (DWM), DisplayPDF (XPS), ColorSync, CoreAudio, FrontRow, Time Machine (Previous Docs), X11/terminal (Services For Unix/PowerShell), Exposé and CMD-TAB(Flip and Flip3D), Spotlight, Dashboard (Sidebar), new networking, Bonjour/Rendevous (People Near Me), Inkwell (Tablet), Voice Over, Speech Recognition, QT7 (WMP11), FileVault (EFS), AdressBook, New Finder, iCal (WinCal), iDVD (Win DVD Maker), iPhoto (Win Photo Gallery), IIS7 (Apache), OpenGL 2.0 (DX10), Unix permissions (UAC)...
Apple never added that much new stuff to any 10.x release and especially not from Panther to Tiger. 10.3 to 10.4 was more like Windows 2000 to Windows XP. XP to Vista is like 10.1 to 10.5. It only stops short of OS 9 to OS X because they didn't change kernels (although they did add one with 64-bit).
Vienna is a minor release. Essientially Windows Vista R2 (Release 2) just like Windows Server 2003 has an R2 version. There's no reason for MS to ditch all the new underpinnings they just switched to. Hell, they only switched to the NT kernel (for consumers) 5 years ago. From what I've been told (from different sources than Thurrott), "Vienna" will be mostly the stuff they cut from Longhorn (WinFS etc.) and the interface stuff they didn't get around to building because WPF wasn't finished.
From Winsupersite:
Q: So is Vienna going to be a major Windows version?
A: No. Windows Vista was a major release, and Vienna will be a relatively minor, or interim, update. Microsoft is currently on a development path where every other Windows version is a major release.
Q: When will Vienna ship?
A: Microsoft currently plans to ship Vienna in 2009, about two to two and a half years after Vista. The next major release of Windows is expected two years after Vienna, in 2011. (Windows Server updates are on a similar cycle.)
Q: What features will be included in Windows Vienna?
A: Microsoft hasn't publicly committed to any features for Vienna and the company is currently still deciding what this next Windows release will look like. We do know a few things about Vienna, however: It will include a new version of Windows Explorer that is being built by the same team that designed the Ribbon user interface in Office 2007. It will likely include some form of the "Hypervisor" (Windows Virtualization) technologies that will ship shortly after Windows Server "Longhorn". It will also likely include the WinFS (Windows Future Storage) technologies, though they won't be packaged or branded as WinFS.
funny, for such a technologcial advanced country, how its so backward in mobile phone coverage, guess were just lucky in Europe, so on that note, YE HA for the iphone.
Because an operating system being delayed by a phone fuels many existing lines of thought about where Apple is going.
I don't even think I'm going to upgrade now. It even looks ugly. I don't want my os to look like ****....Apple.. why? 
I'm extremely disappointed. I want them to go back to selling just Macs and iPods. Stupid fu***** who really cares about a stupid phone? There's a reason why people have cell phones. To talk to each other just like with a regular telephone, you don't need fancy razzle-dazzle touch screen features that cost so much to make a good phone. I have some advice for Apple:
Sort
Out
Your
Priorities.
I'm extremely disappointed. I want them to go back to selling just Macs and iPods. Stupid fu***** who really cares about a stupid phone? There's a reason why people have cell phones. To talk to each other just like with a regular telephone, you don't need fancy razzle-dazzle touch screen features that cost so much to make a good phone. I have some advice for Apple:Sort
Out
Your
Priorities.
So true. He said the same thing about portable video players and media centers too.
Aha, so you've accepted iPods then? At the time, it was "who cares about iPods, I just want Apple to sell Macs!" Change happens. Deal with it.
Yeah, and who cares about iPods? Overpriced MP3 players with no revolutionary features, nobody will buy one and Apple will go bankrupt! Why don't they sort out their priorities!
Sure, as long as you ignore ALL the under-the-hood changes, of which there were many. You know, things like fine-grained kernel locking, real metadata support, etc. Here, read this. "Very very small update"...ha....
--Eric
What will be shown at NAB?
I thought Apple only "planned" to demonstrate "an almost-complete feature set." But perhaps I'm wrong. I will wait until Sep, 07, before I make any judgments about the (lack of) revelation of secret features.
Edit: MR reported only that "developers will be given a "near-final" beta copy of Leopard at the Worldwide Developers Conference in early June." This does not say anything about a complete feature set, so my judgment will be delayed until Sep., 07, as previously stated.
I thought Apple only "planned" to demonstrate "an almost-complete feature set." But perhaps I'm wrong. I will wait until Sep, 07, before I make any judgments about the (lack of) revelation of secret features.
Edit: MR reported only that "developers will be given a "near-final" beta copy of Leopard at the Worldwide Developers Conference in early June." This does not say anything about a complete feature set, so my judgment will be delayed until Sep., 07, as previously stated.
Hate to break it to you but XP went through more (and bigger) "under-the-hood changes" in its lifetime than OS X did from Panther to Tiger. Several encrpytion updates (file system), all the SP2 security work, NUMA, .Net 1/1.1/2.0/3.0, IIS 6 (64-bit only), Windows Media 8 to 9, DX8.1 to DX9, speech/text recognition for Tablet, WoW (32-bit emulation on 64-bit systems) adding a new driver model for MCE and of course a brand new kernel with XP 64-bit and another semi-revamped kernel/userspace with XP embedded.
10.3 to 10.4 = Windows 2000 to XP (pre-SP1).
Way to totally misquote what Steve said about flash-based music players!
I direct you to a previous post of mine where I lay it all out: https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/1161873/
this has to be the dumbest post in the thread. sorry, but you've got no clue. A G4 runs Tiger without problems. A Mac Pro or current laptop will run Tiger or Leopard without any problems. What are you on?
A current laptop will have a low resolution screen, because like you know, Apple does not give us the option to BTO laptops with different screen models.
Why didn't you comment likewise to those responding to your inane post with the ever-insightful "Amen"?
Don't bother with the rhetorical, I think I already know. Could it be because they were agreeing with you?
Who needs an OS when you can have this?
Only a handful of people for sure.
It's a widescreen iPod!
A revolutionary phone!
And a breakthrough internet device!
But wait....these aren't separate products. This is one product!
You can flush it down the toilet in a year when its batteries get worn out, or in 2-3 years when its non user replaceable flash memory goes bad.
Pfft.
Im sure that if the entire US was the size of just one of our states then we would have the newest cell systems as well.
Although the news is a dissapointmet its not THAT much of a let down. I was an apple user but for a bizarre reason bought a Vista desktop (please no booing and hissing i know i did wrong).
I have learnt from my mistake and when i get paid in 2 weeks im getting a nice new MacBook Pro and dumping Vista the second i can!.
Now Vista is only just out but already Tiger walks all over Vista. Just think that in October we will all get our hands on a new OS that will be far far better than anything else, whilst syncing our iPhone's to the computer and we will all be very very happy.
Yes this is a delay but we know why which is the main thing
I have learnt from my mistake and when i get paid in 2 weeks im getting a nice new MacBook Pro and dumping Vista the second i can!.
Now Vista is only just out but already Tiger walks all over Vista. Just think that in October we will all get our hands on a new OS that will be far far better than anything else, whilst syncing our iPhone's to the computer and we will all be very very happy.
Yes this is a delay but we know why which is the main thing
Ah. Got a mistaken impression of Vienna. But still, Tiger had many under-the-hood advancements. But XP -> Vista is NOWHERE near OS9 to OSX. At most, I'd say Jaguar to Tiger.
As for IE, maybe they rewrote it, they are still using the Trident layout engine. They only did bug fixes, primarily. I could probably write most of IE's interface. A layout engine, not so much. But they didn't rewrite the layout engine, which is the main part of a web browser.
DirectX, I'll give you.
So, perhaps more improvements than I thought, but still, not even approaching OS9 to OSX (which was the original comparison, I think), and probably not even the differences between OS 10.0 and 10.4.
I was just hoping that Leopard would come out before the Iphone so that when the Iphone shipped integration and new exciting features would have been enabled from the start.
But now I wonder if there will be a software upgrade for the Iphone when Leopard ships later to enable some of these features?
But now I wonder if there will be a software upgrade for the Iphone when Leopard ships later to enable some of these features?
emmmmmm, there isn't any feature that would fit in the phone, and the iphone-OSX maybe too weak compare to your expectation, im afraid.
OS9->OSX is total rewrite, and borrowed >75% code from Unix. It was a desperate move at that time, u can't expect M$ to re-write their system when windows is dominanting >85% of market, they get no reason to do so.
For a history of Vista, read:
http://www.winsupersite.com/reviews/winvista.asp
Paul Thurrot can be a bit biased towards windows, but also, he can be quite balanced too - especially when it comes to Vista - he'll say its crap, if he thinks its crap, or good - and justify the reasoning.
Vista today was based off Windows 2003 and the technologies developed for Vista in the initial project were back ported.
"So why did Vista take so long? Microsoft will tell you that Vista has really only been in active development since mid-2004, when it "reset" the original Longhorn project and restarted development on the Windows Server 2003 code base. I'd argue that this is a convenient misstatement of the facts: Windows Vista is Longhorn and Longhorn is Windows Vista. In short, Microsoft did take five years to bring Longhorn--sorry, Windows Vista--to market.
As it turns out, the reason why is simple. Microsoft screwed up, plain and simple. Each version of Windows is based on the version that came before it and because Windows Vista was envisioned as a kitchen sink release that would include every major new feature imaginable, it eventually teetered and fell under the weight of the technology Microsoft was heaping upon it. That Vista is now based on the Windows Server 2003 code based and not that of Windows XP is meaningless. When the project started, back in 2001, it was based on Windows XP."
--
"To be fair, it's Windows Vista's only competitor. Maybe you've heard of it: It's called Windows XP."
He's quite right too. OSX isn't a real competitor, its like a bug nipping a dog or cat ( or you!).
http://www.winsupersite.com/reviews/winvista.asp
Paul Thurrot can be a bit biased towards windows, but also, he can be quite balanced too - especially when it comes to Vista - he'll say its crap, if he thinks its crap, or good - and justify the reasoning.
Vista today was based off Windows 2003 and the technologies developed for Vista in the initial project were back ported.
"So why did Vista take so long? Microsoft will tell you that Vista has really only been in active development since mid-2004, when it "reset" the original Longhorn project and restarted development on the Windows Server 2003 code base. I'd argue that this is a convenient misstatement of the facts: Windows Vista is Longhorn and Longhorn is Windows Vista. In short, Microsoft did take five years to bring Longhorn--sorry, Windows Vista--to market.
As it turns out, the reason why is simple. Microsoft screwed up, plain and simple. Each version of Windows is based on the version that came before it and because Windows Vista was envisioned as a kitchen sink release that would include every major new feature imaginable, it eventually teetered and fell under the weight of the technology Microsoft was heaping upon it. That Vista is now based on the Windows Server 2003 code based and not that of Windows XP is meaningless. When the project started, back in 2001, it was based on Windows XP."
--
"To be fair, it's Windows Vista's only competitor. Maybe you've heard of it: It's called Windows XP."
He's quite right too. OSX isn't a real competitor, its like a bug nipping a dog or cat ( or you!).
lol, since OSX now has 5~6% market share, i think bug is a little bit underestimated.