Apple Delays Leopard Release

[CoreWeb]

Vista is a major rewrite. Not a total rewrite, but then again it didn't need to be like OS X did.

Think about it... total replacement/update of the following:
Printing subsystem, display subsystem (DWM),
graphics subsystem (DX10, DX9L), Media subsystem (Media Foundation), Audio (Core Audio), Media Center, Networking, brand new Explorer, new search system, new IIS7, system-wide RSS, new color system, new image codec system, new backup system, new memory subsystem, new speech system, text rendering, encryption, UAC, slideshow, .NET 3.0, new power system, clickonce, WIM, Powershell (not technically in Vista but released at the same time), Hypervisor/virtualization, 64-bit.

On the surface the improvements are minor but under the hood they are huge.

Most of those aren't rewrites. A lot are completely separate products which were BUNDLED with Vista. Those can't count. IE7, for instance, has only minor improvements, and (at least on XP systems) has a tremendously slower GUI. .NET 3.0 is also a bundled feature (though it is integrated somewhat into Vista.) There was a 64-bit version of XP, so that is not a new feature. DX10 is simply another update to DirectX.

XP -> Vista is perhaps like Panther -> Tiger (though the end result is still less than Tiger). Vista was SUPPOSED to be somewhere between that and OS9->OSX. But they had to cancel that. Now it is supposedly Vienna which will do that.

 

[Vidd]

once you have your computer with tiger set up the way you like it, you can easily upgrade to leopard in under 30 minutes.

there is so much bitching by people who do not seem to know what they are talking about.

It mightn't seem a lot to upgrade later but it would also involve the new iLife too.
Look at this:

Instead you could have:

or

or Applecare.

It seems a bit crap to buy a computer and then have to pay that to upgrade.
You're already laying down £1000, for example.

 

[Lovesong]

I think I figured out what is wrong with this picture... he's typing memos on an OS that won't be out for 6 months!!!

 

[glennyboiwpg]

Yeah I know there have been a 1000 people who have done this before me, but I gotta do it.

Apple has dropped the ball on this one. Leopard should have been released a month after vista. I'm a programmer and I know "quality over quantity", yeah yeah I know, lets wait for a stable release, yeah yeah...

But the truth is? From a marketing perspective? They screwed up BIG time.

They had momentium. But their momentium train is losing steam.

And another thing? Get rid of those F**King commericals making fun of windows, when you can't get your own product out the door on time!

Apple's been throwing stones in their glass IHouses for a while now....

Put your products where your mouth is apple!

 

[Val-kyrie]

This actually puts things in a better position for me. I'm looking into buying a MBP and by the time Leopard arrives the MBP's surely should have been refreshed and equipped with the Q3 release of Penryn.

Do you have a link? Last I heard, Penryn was not going to be shipped en mass until Q4 '07/Q1 '08.

 

[erockerboy]

Man.... I cannot believe some of the grousing on this thread. Waah, waah, waah. You would think Steve Jobs had reneged on a blood oath to his dying grandmother or something. To all the hyperventilating geeks out there: TAKE A CHILL PILL. Tiger is still the best OS on the planet. Period. Vista can't hold a candle - and anyone who thinks otherwise is speaking out of sheer ignorance. (As someone who's lived extensively with Vista on multiple machines since its release, I can speak authoritatively on this. Trust me - once you get over the "shiny factor", Vista is a far cry from ready for prime time. Tiger is the superior product, hands down.)

And you know what else? The iPhone will be GOOD FOR APPLE - and hence, good for the Mac platform. I'm sure all of the loudest whiners on this thread were still crapping their diapers back in the dark days of the Gil Amelio era, and may not appreciate the depths from which the modern-day Apple Inc has risen. It was a decade ago this quarter, Q2 1997, when Apple's stock was at a 12-year low and Apple's cash losses were in the hundreds of millions. Remember that? No? Remember Michael Dell spitting on Apple's grave? Look where Apple is today - hugely profitable, media darling, stock on a tear - and ask yourself: is it possible that maybe, just maybe, Steve Jobs knows what the heck he's doing?

If Apple can catalyze even a fraction of the advance iPhone buzz into actual unit sales - it will be the best thing that has ever happened to the Mac. The Mac will never go away so long as Apple is viable, and if the iPhone contributes - which it will, massively - to the success and longevity of Apple, it will be a HUGE WIN for the Mac platform. Rest assured, the best days of the Mac are still ahead.

So relax, roll a fatty, raise a glass, take a bubble bath, download some more Eva Longoria pics, whatever does it for ya. Life on the Mac is great today - and tomorrow will be even better.

Word.

 

[woldham]

I wait no more...

I waited to buy my 17" MacBook Pro because of 10.5, then decided to wait no more and bought it two weeks ago, glad I did now since I waited about 2 months before just going for the Pro.... Next up, the Mac Pro 8 Core is on my list of must have hardware....

 

[thefnshow]

now you know how some of us windows users feel when our os gets delayed...i'm still pissed off about no WinFs...but i'll live...always thought if they had better marketing they'd have more market share...it's like a 6 year old is in charge of those commercials.

 

[Wie Gehts]

Leopard? I'm still waiting for Rhapsody that SJ promised.

 

[hoop]

This thread is absolutely hilarious.

It's a few months delay for an OS. That's all. Apple aren't going to be moving away from home computing, they're simply branching out, and it's exciting to watch. It makes completely sense to create digital devices such as music players and phones, because these extensions of home computnig is the way things are going. An iPhone will be a portable extension of OSX, and the only people who aren't eager to see where this will take us are those pissed off because their status as part of an elite computer club is rapidly fading away. Face it, everybody knows who Apple are now. They're in a prime position to take over and create new markets using the 'i' brand. They're a company, they're going to do it to make money, and no amount of crying into your precious white keyboards will change this.

I just can't wait to sync up iCal, iTunes, iPhoto and who knows what else with my phone, take it to work and swap some files around, get my hands on a touchscreen iPod/iMac and manipulate media directly, and who knows what else. If we want to see these technologies tamed and mastered, injected into our existing perception of a computer system, then let Apple experiement with them, let them try and push their ideas forward so we can see what they've got waiting for us in the future.

But please stop bitching about a bloody OS not being about for 90 days of whatever.

 

[rktheac]

Interesting to see so many fairweather fans coming out of the woodwork. I'd say the vast majority of the posters here (including myself) have no clue whatsoever on the reasons behind the delay, and yet you (excluding myself) profess to know and declare them. How ingenious of you. I heard Enderle is hiring.

And those who waited, and have said they'll be forced to wait longer to switch/buy/upgrade? While there may be legitimate reasons, simply waiting because you want the new OS is silly. Instead of being productive NOW, you'd rather wait, which really means that you had no real reason to buy/upgrade, other than simply to get the next new thing. Now, I suppose there's nothing wrong with desiring the next new thing, but whining about a delay, and especially being adamant about the demise of Apple is, in my humble opinion, silly.

I am disappointed of the delay, but it's not the end of the world. My 2.33GHz C2D MBP with Tiger is letting me do things faster than my old 1.67GHz PB...with Tiger.

 

[Zukum]

Help Please

Can a respected MR veteran who has an objective view and some spare time please read all of these 1000+ posts and do a summary of the best ideas and points?

 

[Jim Campbell]

... back in the dark days of the Gil Amelio era, and may not appreciate the depths from which the modern-day Apple Inc has risen. It was a decade ago this quarter, Q2 1997, when Apple's stock was at a 12-year low and Apple's cash losses were in the hundreds of millions. Remember that?

Actually, I'd pretty successfully blotted that from my mind, but now ...

Oh, God! The horror! The horror! I'm having System 7.5.3 flashbacks.

Sytem 7.5.3: 29 minutes without a crash and count - skrrreeeeeeeee*CRASH!

System 7.5.3: 1 minute without a crash and counting ...

And Quark Xpress 3.31. They don't make 'em like that any more.

Cheers!

Jim

 

[xli_ne]

Well, there IS a difference in being few months late (Leopard), as opposed of being over three years late AND with reduced feature-set (Vista)....

If someone is 45 min. late to work, the person that was 15 min. late to work still can't say too much.

This lil phone of theirs better blow people's minds.

 

[shawnce]

Can a respected MR veteran who has an objective view and some spare time please read all of these 1000+ posts and do a summary of the best ideas and points?

LOL I suggest you just ignore this thread and in a few years time come back and laugh with folks about it.

 

[Yvan256]

What the hell Apple. Dont turn into microsoft and delay and delay and delay!!!

Actually, Microsoft not only had huge delays in delivering Vista, they also removed a lot of what should have made Vista a decent upgrade. When Apple delays something they're more like Nintendo. They try to take the time needed to deliver a quality product. I may not like the fact that Metroid Prime 3 has been delayed, but I'd rather play it later then play a bugged version right now.

However, that still doesn't excuse anything. I know that putting more people in both teams (OS X and Apple iPhone) probably won't fix the problem, however they should have prepared for this. At last the "Apple is delaying their computers with their toys" crowd is finally right.

Add to that the iLife '07 delay, which of course is tied to the Leopard release, the lack of Core 2 Duo for the Mac mini, and it's beginning to look like I won't be upgrading my Mac mini until early 2008.

edit: wow, already 41 pages of comments.

 

[guzhogi]

Yeah I know there have been a 1000 people who have done this before me, but I gotta do it.

Apple has dropped the ball on this one. Leopard should have been released a month after vista. I'm a programmer and I know "quality over quantity", yeah yeah I know, lets wait for a stable release, yeah yeah...

But the truth is? From a marketing perspective? They screwed up BIG time.

They had momentium. But their momentium train is losing steam.

And another thing? Get rid of those F**King commericals making fun of windows, when you can't get your own product out the door on time!

Apple's been throwing stones in their glass IHouses for a while now....

Put your products where your mouth is apple!

I agree. While I like that Apple wants to release a quality product, I think they have too many major projects going. With this and the iPhone, there aren't enough people to work on both at the same time.

Another problem I've noticed is people in the US are so used to having instant results, if there's a delay they complain and complain, but don't do anything about it. My sister visited Spain over June/July. When she came back, she said the people there are a lot more relaxed there than in the US. If something doesn't work, they're like "Oh, it doesn't work. Meh." Loosen up America! Besides, what's wrong w/ Tiger? I didn't hear any complaint when it came out (other than a few bugs here and there). Why can't people be happy with what they have and not live for new features every few months they probably will never use?

 

[Yvan256]

If someone is 45 min. late to work, the person that was 15 min. late to work still can't say too much.

This lil phone of theirs better blow people's minds.

Except that in this case, the person who is 15 minutes late took the time to shower, eat breakfast, dress up properly and has his reports ready and in full color pages to go along his Keynote presentation.

The person who is 45 minutes late haven't showered in days, is wearing training clothes because his suit is at the cleaners (and it's been ready since last week, he just didn't have the time to pick it up yet), didn't have time to eat breakfast, and has no Powerpoint presentation to go with his black and white bullet list "tech specs" sheet.

So yes, they are both late, but one of them is ready.

As for being unhappy about the delay for Leopard, it's because it's tied to my "replace my Mac mini G4/Tiger/iLife'06 with a Mac mini Core 2 Duo/Leopard/iLife'07" plan. not because Tiger isn't good enough.

 

[nemaslov]

sell stock fast

That's a stupid suggestion. Even if you have Apple stock you should hold onm. Even if it dips now it will be huge at the end of the year and into next with everything out.

 

[nemaslov]

.

 

[05elstonc]

Very few people have discussed the fact that Apple will demonstrate a feature complete version of Leopard at WWDC. Apple is not going to be silent about Leopard until October, they are actually going to be giving a Beta copy to all in attendance! This is fantastic news! Core Animation is going to be everywhere in the UI and in iLife, this will give 3rd party developers some time to implement some of the new UI conventions into their own app and ship their Leopard only version in October. Because of Core Animation and a few other new API's most new Apps will be Leopard only, therefore developers need to be on board and the OS needs to be stable out of the gate. It is better that Apple has gotten the bad news out of the way now, rather than surprise us at WWDC with a new demo of leopard and a shipping date of October.

 

[dmelgar]

We now know atleast one thing: Mac OS X isn't the first on Apple's priority list.

As a company, this is inevitable.

However, I don't have to understand the company.
As a Mac user, I'm saddened by it.

This is a classic business MISTAKE.
One of the hardest things a company can do is try and grow. Growing quickly is often too much for a company to handle.

Apple is admitting that they've over extended themselves. They have what use to just be a computer hardware and software company expanding into dramatically different markets, iPod hardware and software, televisions, and now telephone hardware and software. One company can't do it all. Sounds like Jobs likes keeping everything in house. Thats not practical either. They're trying to update and maintain Mac OS X, iLife, a bevy of other applications, deal with supporting PPC and Intel platforms. Come up with new hardware. iTunes, new subscription models.

The point is they are doing many things. They are starting to spread themselves too thin and they admit they can't handle it.

Companies do this because they see big dollar signs on the horizon... if only we get 1% of some huge market place, thats huge money. The risk is that they reach too far and fail in all their endevors. If they delay Leopard, and they delay new Mac models to concentrate on iPhone, if iPhone flops which is likely given the history of competitors, they will have squandered an chance to gain share on Microsoft and may loose that market as well. No one wants to buy a computer to lock into something they think will go away in a few years. With the success of iPod and Mac OS X, customers have been flocking to the new platform. But if they loose confidence in that platform or if they get the impression that Apple is no longer investing in that platform, they will bail quickly back to Microsoft.

 

[dizastor]

Man.... I cannot believe some of the grousing on this thread. Waah, waah, waah. You would think Steve Jobs had reneged on a blood oath to his dying grandmother or something. To all the hyperventilating geeks out there: TAKE A CHILL PILL. Tiger is still the best OS on the planet. Period. Vista can't hold a candle - and anyone who thinks otherwise is speaking out of sheer ignorance. (As someone who's lived extensively with Vista on multiple machines since its release, I can speak authoritatively on this. Trust me - once you get over the "shiny factor", Vista is a far cry from ready for prime time. Tiger is the superior product, hands down.)

And you know what else? The iPhone will be GOOD FOR APPLE - and hence, good for the Mac platform. I'm sure all of the loudest whiners on this thread were still crapping their diapers back in the dark days of the Gil Amelio era, and may not appreciate the depths from which the modern-day Apple Inc has risen. It was a decade ago this quarter, Q2 1997, when Apple's stock was at a 12-year low and Apple's cash losses were in the hundreds of millions. Remember that? No? Remember Michael Dell spitting on Apple's grave? Look where Apple is today - hugely profitable, media darling, stock on a tear - and ask yourself: is it possible that maybe, just maybe, Steve Jobs knows what the heck he's doing?

If Apple can catalyze even a fraction of the advance iPhone buzz into actual unit sales - it will be the best thing that has ever happened to the Mac. The Mac will never go away so long as Apple is viable, and if the iPhone contributes - which it will, massively - to the success and longevity of Apple, it will be a HUGE WIN for the Mac platform. Rest assured, the best days of the Mac are still ahead.

So relax, roll a fatty, raise a glass, take a bubble bath, download some more Eva Longoria pics, whatever does it for ya. Life on the Mac is great today - and tomorrow will be even better.

Word.

Amen

 

[Peace]

Can a respected MR veteran who has an objective view and some spare time please read all of these 1000+ posts and do a summary of the best ideas and points?

They could but MacRumors have shifted them over to the iPhone discussion to get it more readable.So this discussion will remain a load of crap until October.So sorry.

 

[zub3qin]

Very few people have discussed the fact that Apple will demonstrate a feature complete version of Leopard at WWDC. Apple is not going to be silent about Leopard until October, they are actually going to be giving a Beta copy to all in attendance! This is fantastic news! Core Animation is going to be everywhere in the UI and in iLife, this will give 3rd party developers some time to implement some of the new UI conventions into their own app and ship their Leopard only version in October. Because of Core Animation and a few other new API's most new Apps will be Leopard only, therefore developers need to be on board and the OS needs to be stable out of the gate. It is better that Apple has gotten the bad news out of the way now, rather than surprise us at WWDC with a new demo of leopard and a shipping date of October.

Let me correct you.
Apple "PLANS" on demonstrating a feature complete Leopard at WWDC.
This is even less of a reliable statement than "Apple WILL be releasing Leopard in Spring '07"