Apple Design Chief Jony Ive to Speak at WIRED's 25th Anniversary Event in October

Frank Dalton

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Yep.
Steve saw him as the man to lead the design team. Right there is enough reason to believe on the guy.
Yes, he deserves criticisms here and there but his body of work is pretty impressive. I think most of Apple's issues (pro users lack of support) do not come out Jony but the overall direction of the company.
Do you really think Steve just let him do as he pleases to the point of firing anyone who argued with him about his design choices (see Scott Forstall, another man Steve relied upon)? Because that’s what’s happening under Tim Cook.
 

TaviDuprix

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Mar 15, 2016
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I still don't get all the hate over the notch. Please give me less screen real estate for the simple purpose of a straight line. Nonsensical. Apple can't help the fact that many app developers are lazy and have not made good use of the space or eliminated it. I suspect though that as a greater percentage of phones in consumers hands go with the newer notch lineup you will start to see that change.

One other thing, let's not forget that the cringe-worthy shredder delete animations and other similarly bad designs are gone thanks to Jony. It was Forstall that had all that goofy stuff that fragmented the feel of the design and made it really gimmicky.
 

Frank Dalton

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I still don't get all the hate over the notch. Please give me less screen real estate for the simple purpose of a straight line.
Because it’s just as silly as constructing a screen around the home button on the pre-X designs. They didn’t do that, so why is this such a great thing?

One other thing, let's not forget that the cringe-worthy shredder delete animations and other similarly bad designs are gone thanks to Jony. It was Forstall that had all that goofy stuff that fragmented the feel of the design and made it really gimmicky.
Ive’s software “design” is bland and cold. There’s a reason Google’s apps suddenly fit in so well on iOS. That isn’t because Google changed, it’s because Jony made iOS look like Android.
 

TaviDuprix

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No it says nothing! Apple is a bit like parents taking care of their favorite popular child that gets the best grades and letting the other children starve and die. Not cultivating their other children's life to grow, develop and flourish, but die!! Does that make sense?? Look, I was there from the start of Apple, maybe you weren't. I see them declining in innovation and milking their successes to death, to the detriment of their other product lines. My problem is I use those other product lines for my business, so it affects me by staying under MacOS. Even if you are a millennial, surely you've seen that gaming has totally left the Mac for the WinPC OS!!! Unacceptable, especially since we have VR and AR coming into existence that needs beefy hardware. How can you not see that Apple isn't using their money/success in those popular lines to support their other less popular lines like laptops and desktops!!?? Apple is iPhone and iPads all the time!
So what you are saying is that Apple should focus less on devices that number in billions and are growing year over year and focus more on legacy hardware that is becoming less and less important in people's every day lives just for the purpose of placating desktop gamers. That sounds like a winning plan.
 

Frank Dalton

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So what you are saying is that Apple should focus less on devices that number in billions and are growing year over year and focus more on legacy hardware that is becoming less and less important in people's every day lives just for the purpose of placating desktop gamers. That sounds like a winning plan.
If they consider it “legacy hardware” that doesn’t matter anymore, then they need to stop with the facade. Either do it right or kill it.
 

thepixelpusher

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So what you are saying is that Apple should focus less on devices that number in billions and are growing year over year and focus more on legacy hardware that is becoming less and less important in people's every day lives just for the purpose of placating desktop gamers. That sounds like a winning plan.
Obviously, you aren't a business person or run a business. Apple has the money/resources to develop their other lines that may not account for the largest volume of their sales, but are important to the emerging growth markets in VR and AR, education and entertainment. Apple's hardware really cannot match that running WinPC in that Apple offerings are mainly closed systems with limited capabilities/expandability and shelf life. Apple is painting themselves into a corner that will lead them to drop all other product lines other than the iPhone/iPad because that is all they feed. Apple will then be forced to develop compatibility among the iPhone/iPads and WinPC just to maintain their market after they drop their desktops and laptops.

In my business in entertainment, all the pro users have migrated to Windows that do 3D and filmmaking, because robust and more powerful 3D hardware is plentiful for WinOS and editing with Premiere is far better optimized under WinOS too. I'm at a tipping point where I have to decide to stay on MacOS or move on myself due to Apple's dropping the ball on power users. Apple's products will devolve to little more than viewing screens to the content created on the WinOS platform.
 
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TaviDuprix

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Mar 15, 2016
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Because it’s just as silly as constructing a screen around the home button on the pre-X designs. They didn’t do that, so why is this such a great thing?

Look at the home screen. The real estate for the time and the various connection / battery symbols in addition to the swipe down for the control center make good use of the space. Bringing everything down into the space below would actually be less pleasing now that a person is used to that. App devs simply need to be a little more creative to use said space in equally useful ways. As long as there is a front-facing camera the notch is not going away now that you have a top to bottom screen.

Ive’s software “design” is bland and cold. There’s a reason Google’s apps suddenly fit in so well on iOS. That isn’t because Google changed, it’s because Jony made iOS look like Android.
I think the word you were looking for was clean. Devoid of unnecessary frills for the sake of showing out and alienating others. It is what it needs to be, aesthetically pleasing by being uniform and receding to the background.
 

Frank Dalton

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I think the word you were looking for was clean. Devoid of unnecessary frills for the sake of showing out and alienating others. It is what it needs to be, aesthetically pleasing by being uniform and receding to the background.
No, I was being charitable. The term I was looking for was “reductive garbage.” It is as “pleasing” as an IKEA shelving system. Functional but generic. I find Ive’s software philosophy incredibly alienating, so there goes that part of your supposition. Obviously our opinions differ strongly on this.
 

entropys

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Jan 5, 2007
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Negative feedback only from the few here and elsewhere on forums, they have record sales every year so that says something.
The point is, what *could* those sales have been if as much attention was paid to function as there is to form? You know, the famous Apple junction of engineering and liberal arts design is not a usability goat track connecting to a design super highway.
Ive needs a Jobs to keep him focussed.
 

thepixelpusher

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I think the word you were looking for was clean. Devoid of unnecessary frills for the sake of showing out and alienating others. It is what it needs to be, aesthetically pleasing by being uniform and receding to the background.
You're extrapolating. You're saying garbage is a valuable diamond. The iPod interface was a work of genius UI.but simple for simple sake doesn't equate to useful genius. Apple is devolving into the single atom design philosophy. If a collection of atoms make up a laptop, let's take it to it's most simple form and it will be a work of art...NOT!
 

TaviDuprix

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Mar 15, 2016
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Obviously, you aren't a business person or run a business. Apple has the money/resources to develop their other lines that may not account for the largest volume of their sales, but are important to the emerging growth markets in VR and AR, education and entertainment. Apple's hardware really cannot match that running WinPC in that Apple offerings are mainly closed systems with limited capabilities/expandability and shelf life. Apple is painting themselves into a corner that will lead them to drop all other product lines other than the iPhone/iPad because that is all they feed. Apple will then be forced to develop compatibility among the iPhone/iPads and WinPC just to maintain their market after they drop their desktops and laptops.
Perhaps you need to review this Fiscal 2017 revenue pie chart and remind me why they should focus more on the Mac: https://g.foolcdn.com/editorial/images/466825/apple-stock-segment-revenue_large.png

I tried looking for gross profit margin by product details but could not readily find it. However, I suspect that the Mac line is not any more profitable in terms of margin than other product lines. To be fair, Apple only needs to be good enough in the desktop space to make not breaking the ecosystem of the phone, tablet, AppleTV etc. a consideration when deciding on what to purchase for those few that are still buying bulkier hardware. Sure, they could put some of their mountain of cash to work to move those offerings forward but at the end of the day what is going to be the ROI? Even Microsoft is getting a third or less of their revenue from PCs. The fact is simple, from a financials perspective your thoughts are outdated.
 
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thepixelpusher

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The point is, what *could* those sales have been if as much attention was paid to function as there is to form? You know, the famous Apple junction of engineering and liberal arts design is not a usability goat track connecting to a design super highway.
Ive needs a Jobs to keep him focussed.
Precisely! Those super selling highways were developed! They just didn't magically appear for Apple. Apple higher-ups are visionless as to how to grow their future markets. All we are getting now are warmed over ideas and mini updates to their existing power sellers, but no innovation to lead Apple to other future power seller products.

Even Samsung is building a more accessory friendly smartphone and the red hydrogen smartphone is starting to look more innovative! Soon Apple iPhone will be the Jitterbug of smartphones. Only used by old seniors that want something simple and closed off.
 
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Feyl

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Aug 24, 2013
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Czech Republic
I still don't get all the hate over the notch. Please give me less screen real estate for the simple purpose of a straight line. Nonsensical. Apple can't help the fact that many app developers are lazy and have not made good use of the space or eliminated it. I suspect though that as a greater percentage of phones in consumers hands go with the newer notch lineup you will start to see that change.

One other thing, let's not forget that the cringe-worthy shredder delete animations and other similarly bad designs are gone thanks to Jony. It was Forstall that had all that goofy stuff that fragmented the feel of the design and made it really gimmicky.
Yeah... like the parallax effect and blur everywhere isn’t gimmicky at all.
 

lunarworks

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Even if you are a millennial, surely you've seen that gaming has totally left the Mac for the WinPC OS!!! Unacceptable, especially since we have VR and AR coming into existence that needs beefy hardware.
Um, aside from shareware in the early days, gaming has never been the Mac's strong point. Even the Amiga was a stronger gaming platform.

Also, laptops are the most popular Mac line, and laptops have always been mediocre at gaming.

But I prefer consoles anyhow...
 

TaviDuprix

macrumors member
Mar 15, 2016
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The Cookian Philosophy at work. This kind of thinking will carry them for a few years but it won’t save them from the next market disruptor coming along and eating their lunch.
My point is that the desktop will not be the next market disruption. I don't disagree with the rest of your statement. I really think that the next market disruption will come from some company making a giant leap forward with the virtual assistant. I think that we are in the Lycos, Yahoo!, Alta Vista days of search in that regard and someone is going to truly figure out the AI for the assistant and everything else is going to get turned on its head.
 
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Frank Dalton

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My point is that the desktop will not be the next market disruption. I don't disagree with the rest of your statement. I really think that the next market disruption will come from some company making a giant leap forward with the virtual assistant. I think that we are in the Lycos, Yahoo!, Alta Vista days of search in that regard and someone is going to truly figure out the AI for the assistant and everything else is going to get turned on its head.
Sure. I don’t necessarily disagree. But neglecting the desktop before an actual, true replacement has arrived (hint: it isn’t the iPad) may turn out to be a fatal mistake.
 
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thepixelpusher

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By a very small percentage of people on a few forums and social media platforms. You are not the center of the universe.
Yeah, the app store market used to be a niche market and now look at it. It's called vision and innovation and it looks like it died along with Steve Jobs!
[doublepost=1532646171][/doublepost]
Um, aside from shareware in the early days, gaming has never been the Mac's strong point. Even the Amiga was a stronger gaming platform.

Also, laptops are the most popular Mac line, and laptops have always been mediocre at gaming.

But I prefer consoles anyhow...
Apple is not on consoles, but Microsoft is. See what I mean. Apple has not diversified themselves, but put all their chips on iPhone/iPad. Apple is painting themselves into a corner. If someone like Red Hydrogen, with their holographic screen and DSLR capable smartphone, out-innovates Apple, Apple is screwed and loses on the one market they bet on.
 

Soccertess

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He doesn’t necessarily have to be fired, just demoted and made to report to someone who will tell him “no” when he trotts out a piece of self-indulgent stupidity.

Though I suspect the above would cause him to choose resignation, which is fine, too.
So on point! I really don’t want iPhones to turn into single pieces of polished aluminium slates, which is his ultimate desire in life. Screens, ports, and anything other than polished steel are compromises to his design vison
 

thepixelpusher

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My point is that the desktop will not be the next market disruption. I don't disagree with the rest of your statement. I really think that the next market disruption will come from some company making a giant leap forward with the virtual assistant. I think that we are in the Lycos, Yahoo!, Alta Vista days of search in that regard and someone is going to truly figure out the AI for the assistant and everything else is going to get turned on its head.
"My point is that the desktop will not be the next market disruption."

No way of knowing that. That said, Apple seems to agree with you since they abandoned that market to let WinOS take over and rule with the content creators. The entertainment industry is one of the industries the USA is number 1 in the world over. Apple has disengaged themselves from being leaders in the creator market and from Pro users. Apple is relegating themselves to the See and Say toy market of mobile computing. I'd like to root for Apple, but they are walking over a cliff and I'm not going to be that fanboy lemming to follow them over it.
 
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SeattleMoose

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Once you have reached perfection, change for the sake of change becomes detrimental.
Unfortunately, Jony seems to favor form over function. Which for computing products, results in decisions like removal of headphone jack, premature removal of legacy ports, thinner crappy keyboards, dropping Magsafe, and other head-scratchers.