Apple Design Chief Jony Ive to Speak at WIRED's 25th Anniversary Event in October

EdT

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The idea that Steve Jobs was a universally loved CEO whose decisions were never wrong or questioned by people is ludicrous.

This website has archived forums back to the early 2000’s. Go back and look at what people were saying about Steve Jobs about the PowerPC and later about moving to Intel and about the introduction or changes to iPods, or complaints about a feature that the iPod lacked but other MP3 players may have had, such as built in radio. Look at what people thought of being tied to only AT&T and at a slower data speed than other phones of the time period. And no folders for files on the phone and no interchangeable battery.....

It wasn’t all sweetness & light, so quit deifying Jobs. He was human and he made mistakes, and a lot of customers were not happy with Apple’s decisions or direction at the time even if some of those were later proven correct. I don’t think that it would be hard to find reasoned opinions about things Apple did that many thought were either outright wrong or were too abrupt without enough time for users to prepare. And the forums here and on other long established Mac and Apple sites prove that.

/edit-added an ampersand ‘&’.
 
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bluecoast

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Nov 7, 2017
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The idea that Steve Jobs was a universally loved CEO whose decisions were never wrong or questioned by people is ludicrous.

This website has archived forums back to the early 2000’s. Go back and look at what people were saying about Steve Jobs about the PowerPC and later about moving to Intel and about the introduction or changes to iPods, or complaints about a feature that the iPod lacked but other MP3 players may have had, such as built in radio. Look at what people thought of being tied to only AT&T and at a slower data speed than other phones of the time period. And no folders for files on the phone and no interchangeable battery.....

It wasn’t all sweetness & light, so quit deifying Jobs. He was human and he made mistakes, and a lot of customers were not happy with Apple’s decisions or direction at the time even if some of those were later proven correct. I don’t think that it would be hard to find reasoned opinions about things Apple did that many thought were either outright wrong or were too abrupt without enough time for users to prepare. And the forums here and on other long established Mac and Apple sites prove that.

/edit-added an ampersand ‘&’.
I agree. I remember loads of mistakes that Apple made under jobs too (and of course the many amazing things).

Jobs has faults and strengths as you say, so does Cook. And sadly, we’ll never know where Apple under Jobs would’ve been in 2018.

Whatever the case, it does seem that a sizeable majority of Apple’s professional customers aren’t happy with the direction that they’re taking.
 
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EdT

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I agree. I remember loads of mistakes that Apple made under jobs too (and of course the many amazing things).

Jobs has faults and strengths as you say, so does Cook. And sadly, we’ll never know where Apple under Jobs would’ve been in 2018.

Whatever the case, it does seem that a sizeable majority of Apple’s professional customers aren’t happy with the direction that they’re taking.
My own personal experience with Apple was post PowerPC and started with the iPhone 4s so I was a latecomer. But the friend who talked me into getting into an iMac and also a MacBook laptop is an independent graphic developer, and he is very unhappy with Apple especially over the last 5 or 6 years.
 

bluecoast

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My own personal experience with Apple was post PowerPC and started with the iPhone 4s so I was a latecomer. But the friend who talked me into getting into an iMac and also a MacBook laptop is an independent graphic developer, and he is very unhappy with Apple especially over the last 5 or 6 years.
I think that what they do with the Mac Pro is going to be the crunch point.

The new version of this machine has apparently been designed with pro user input and is after Apple waved the white flag to their pro audience.

If we don’t get lots of ports, removable/upgradeable ram, ssd & gpu I think they’ll be trouble!

The MBP and iMac Pro were machines designed before Apple realised that they were alienating their pro audience. So I don’t think that we’ll see any massive changes to these for a while, as I expect that next year is going to be about the shift to ARM Macs.
 

DNichter

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Apr 27, 2015
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Yep, someone needs to call out why Apple execs keep on saying that no-one wants to touch the screen on a laptop but then produce a keyboard for the iPad where word suggestions appear on the screen for you to tap... When you’re using the iPad in a laptop open clamshell position.
I think the keyboard is more for typing and not for constant use. I use the ASK daily with my 10.5 and I really only use it when I have to do a lot of emailing/typing and mostly use hot keys. Otherwise you're right, it's a pain to use.
 
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TaviDuprix

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Mar 15, 2016
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The smart phone market won’t always be as hot as it is today.
But it will always be more lucrative than the desktop market. We have moved on as a society to be more mobile and flexible with our entertainment and knowledge requirements. You are right that something will replace the mobile phone but it won't be a step back to the desktop.
 
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PickUrPoison

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But it will always be more lucrative than the desktop market. We have moved on as a society to be more mobile and flexible with our entertainment and knowledge requirements. You are right that something will replace the mobile phone but it won't be a step back to the desktop.
If anything I think it’s the desktop whose days are numbered. Our devices just remotely access the big mainframe in the sky (back to the future!), where dozens, hundreds or thousands of CPUs and/or GPUs do the heavy lifting.

Many scientific and engineering requirements have already moved to this model. It’s now trickled down from large and medium sized businesses to small business. Individuals aren’t far behind. It’ll be a subscription model, $25-$50 a month maybe. Billed in core/seconds. Throttled, shaped and capped according to the price tier.
 

thepixelpusher

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Jan 2, 2015
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I think that what they do with the Mac Pro is going to be the crunch point.

The new version of this machine has apparently been designed with pro user input and is after Apple waved the white flag to their pro audience.

If we don’t get lots of ports, removable/upgradeable ram, ssd & gpu I think they’ll be trouble!

The MBP and iMac Pro were machines designed before Apple realised that they were alienating their pro audience. So I don’t think that we’ll see any massive changes to these for a while, as I expect that next year is going to be about the shift to ARM Macs.
I'm not holding my breath that Apple will magically change to a machine you can update, upgrade, access, and expand upon like the desktops in the PC world. 2019, if the desktop is hampered, it will be the last call to Pro's to move to WinOS, because Apple will have abandoned them/me for their consumer products. 2019 you'll see this board light up with shouts of foul from the last vestiges of Pro's before they buy like no tomorrow in the PC World!
 

Frank Dalton

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Jun 26, 2015
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The idea that Steve Jobs was a universally loved CEO whose decisions were never wrong or questioned by people is ludicrous.

This website has archived forums back to the early 2000’s. Go back and look at what people were saying about Steve Jobs about the PowerPC and later about moving to Intel and about the introduction or changes to iPods, or complaints about a feature that the iPod lacked but other MP3 players may have had, such as built in radio. Look at what people thought of being tied to only AT&T and at a slower data speed than other phones of the time period. And no folders for files on the phone and no interchangeable battery.....

It wasn’t all sweetness & light, so quit deifying Jobs. He was human and he made mistakes, and a lot of customers were not happy with Apple’s decisions or direction at the time even if some of those were later proven correct. I don’t think that it would be hard to find reasoned opinions about things Apple did that many thought were either outright wrong or were too abrupt without enough time for users to prepare. And the forums here and on other long established Mac and Apple sites prove that.

/edit-added an ampersand ‘&’.
I don’t care what anyone else was doing on here in the early 2000’s. That has nothing to do with me. I generally liked what he did. His computing tastes probably aligned quite well with mine, something that is no longer the case under Cook.
 

nexusrule

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Aug 11, 2012
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Of course. Apple continues to make record profits despite consistent negative feedback of their products.
I guess "consistent negative feedback by a handful of people on a few nice forums while hundred of millions of people buy their products every year and are happy with them" while more accurate wouldn't have worked the same way right?
 
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thepixelpusher

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I guess "consistent negative feedback by a handful of people on a few nice forums while hundred of millions of people buy their products every year and are happy with them" while more accurate wouldn't have worked the same way right?
If you look at the Pro sales, I don't think it's where it used to be. Pro's are waiting to see what magic they whip up for 2019 when they finally release the new desktop evolution from the useless non upgradeable trash can model.
 
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Frank Dalton

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If anything I think it’s the desktop whose days are numbered. Our devices just remotely access the big mainframe in the sky (back to the future!), where dozens, hundreds or thousands of CPUs and/or GPUs do the heavy lifting.

Many scientific and engineering requirements have already moved to this model. It’s now trickled down from large and medium sized businesses to small business. Individuals aren’t far behind. It’ll be a subscription model, $25-$50 a month maybe. Billed in core/seconds. Throttled, shaped and capped according to the price tier.
That’s horrifically regressive. No thanks.
 

bluecoast

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I'm not holding my breath that Apple will magically change to a machine you can update, upgrade, access, and expand upon like the desktops in the PC world. 2019, if the desktop is hampered, it will be the last call to Pro's to move to WinOS, because Apple will have abandoned them/me for their consumer products. 2019 you'll see this board light up with shouts of foul from the last vestiges of Pro's before they buy like no tomorrow in the PC World!
I hope you’re not right but it feels like 50/50 that you might be at this point.

My theory: Apple execs are so rich they don’t know what people are moaning about.

Drop your phone? Buy another one, just like you’re getting a cup of coffee!
 
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thepixelpusher

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I hope you’re not right but it feels like 50/50 that you might be at this point.

My theory: Apple execs are so rich they don’t know what people are moaning about.

Drop your phone? Buy another one, just like you’re getting a cup of coffee!
I hope I'm not right too. I prefer the MacOS over the WinOS. But in the end, if the hardware can't cut it I'm out of business. Most of my competition has already gone WinOS to run 3D, Photoshop and film editing faster, using boosted graphics cards not on macs. I hope Apple pulls a win out of their ass, but with the lag getting this hardware out, I'm already losing revenue to the competition. I'm preparing myself for the move should it come to that. I'm not an Apple hater, but a realist that they don't seem to be a supporter of Pros like they once were.
[doublepost=1532768005][/doublepost]I'm thinking Apple is like the person who picks up a hitchhiker and takes them to the wrong destination. Apple is all about smartwatches, smartphones and tablets now. If you think you can get Pro level hardware out of them you're wrong. That's not where they are going. They found their money in the "See and Say" toy mobile hardware and they are not going anywhere else anytime soon. They own the mobile computing market where hardware is fast enough to run apps and services like Netflix, but past that things like gaming and power users for 3D are out of the range of things Apple caters to. Apple is all about digesting the content, not MAKING the CONTENT!

Why else would Microsoft come out with "Surface Studio" for creative professionals unless Apple is leaving the creative content market? And yes, I know this isn't a high-end machine, but its approach is so Apple-like that I see Microsoft poaching Creatives and this is like their first Trojan Horse.

 
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bluecoast

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I hope I'm not right too. I prefer the MacOS over the WinOS. But in the end, if the hardware can't cut it I'm out of business. Most of my competition has already gone WinOS to run 3D, Photoshop and film editing faster, using boosted graphics cards not on macs. I hope Apple pulls a win out of their ass, but with the lag getting this hardware out, I'm already losing revenue to the competition. I'm preparing myself for the move should it come to that. I'm not an Apple hater, but a realist that they don't seem to be a supporter of Pros like they once were.
[doublepost=1532768005][/doublepost]I'm thinking Apple is like the person who picks up a hitchhiker and takes them to the wrong destination. Apple is all about smartwatches, smartphones and tablets now. If you think you can get Pro level hardware out of them you're wrong. That's not where they are going. They found their money in the "See and Say" toy mobile hardware and they are not going anywhere else anytime soon. They own the mobile computing market where hardware is fast enough to run apps and services like Netflix, but past that things like gaming and power users for 3D are out of the range of things Apple caters to. Apple is all about digesting the content, not MAKING the CONTENT!

Why else would Microsoft come out with "Surface Studio" for creative professionals unless Apple is leaving the creative content market? And yes, I know this isn't a high-end machine, but its approach is so Apple-like that I see Microsoft poaching Creatives and this is like their first Trojan Horse.

Thank! I’ve seen quite a few people post on here who work in film/tv post pro who say that Apple has already lost that market...

It’s interesting that although people have critiqued Apple since the year dot, it feels different this time - more and more pros are losing patience with them. They should be very worried about that.

Jobs has his weaknesses - I suspect we all know them. I think that Cook’s weakness is an over-reliance on numbers to drive product strategy.

I think it’s this tendency that produced the current MBP and that the iMac Pro was going to be the direct replacement for the Mac Pro.

The numbers probably told then that this made sense but they had almost lost track of exactly why professionals were buying their conputers and what for.

For them, I think that ‘pro’ started to mean ‘digital creative who works in an advertising agency and who needs to have a fancy machine to impress their clients’.
 

otternonsense

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With their products, everyday products, being represented in the very best museums of the world.
That, my friend, is exactly why we're stepping into problematic product redesigns, like the 2016 MacBook "Pro". Ive designs picture-perfect items to be displayed in a museum, not products for users to actually use and love.

Connectivity and interoperability be damned, and with this insufficient heatsink, the chipsets won't make it through a year or two.

Tim is not a product person and cannot keep Ive's vain preciosity in check like Steve used to.
 

TimmeyCook

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Jun 20, 2018
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not products for users to actually use and love.
lol, contrary to your beliefs, people love their Macs and want to buy more.

Connectivity and interoperability be damned,
lol, the MBP is the most connectable and interoperable laptop in the market.

and with this insufficient heatsink, the chipsets won't make it through a year or two.
we have an engineer here... like it or not, Apple did what others can't, and made a laptop this thin with a more than sufficient cooling solution that basically noiseless. Others can't, because their lack of good materials and good engineering.
 

thepixelpusher

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lol, contrary to your beliefs, people love their Macs and want to buy more.



lol, the MBP is the most connectable and interoperable laptop in the market.



we have an engineer here... like it or not, Apple did what others can't, and made a laptop this thin with a more than sufficient cooling solution that basically noiseless. Others can't, because their lack of good materials and good engineering.
Overheating is a sure way to shorten a laptops lifespan. Wonder how much Mac sales will be affected when we have deadgate. MacBooks having a shorter lifespan because of the constantly higher temperatures on MacBooks. Heck, 1 youtuber, Dave Lee took Apple down to their knees and they kissed his ass for pointing out their design flaw and they threw a fix so fast it made our heads spin. WTH whas Apple doing before those laptops went out the door!!?? No excuse for a global Trillion dollar company to stumble that bad! How can you be an apologist for that! If you did your job that bad, you'd be fired!
[doublepost=1532837397][/doublepost]
lol, contrary to your beliefs, people love their Macs and want to buy more.



lol, the MBP is the most connectable and interoperable laptop in the market.



we have an engineer here... like it or not, Apple did what others can't, and made a laptop this thin with a more than sufficient cooling solution that basically noiseless. Others can't, because their lack of good materials and good engineering.
"Apple did what others can't, and made a laptop this thin with a more than sufficient cooling solution that basically noiseless."

Sorry, but the Razer i9 laptop performs much better than the MacBooks and is nearly as thin and is just as quiet. And the Razer has MORE PORTS! Oh SNAP! Maybe Apple should replace Ives with Alienware Industrial Designers!!
 
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TimmeyCook

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Sorry, but the Razer i9 laptop performs much better than the MacBooks and is nearly as thin and is just as quiet. And the Razer has MORE PORTS!
Is that a joke?

And the SSD, where are the speeds?

The Mac gets 1062 on CPU and 99.46fps on OpenGL, the Razer gets 1052 on CPU and 119.29fps on OpenGL.

Where is that "killer", just by switching to Metal or using Windows OpenGL, it would achieve more performance on CPU and GPU as well.

On top of that, it's thiner, more battery life, better peripherals (bettery keyboard, better trackpad, better biometrics, beter TouchBar), etc.

On top of that, you can't run Final Cut Pro X on the Razer, you can on the MacBook, intersting if you are a videographer.

You can run Xcode on the MacBook, not on the Razer, if you are a programmer.

Etc. etc. etc.

For ports? The Razer doesn't have the same Thunderbolt 3.0 ports.
 

thepixelpusher

macrumors 6502
Jan 2, 2015
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Is that a joke?

And the SSD, where are the speeds?

The Mac gets 1062 on CPU and 99.46fps on OpenGL, the Razer gets 1052 on CPU and 119.29fps on OpenGL.

Where is that "killer", just by switching to Metal or using Windows OpenGL, it would achieve more performance on CPU and GPU as well.

On top of that, it's thiner, more battery life, better peripherals (bettery keyboard, better trackpad, better biometrics, beter TouchBar), etc.

On top of that, you can't run Final Cut Pro X on the Razer, you can on the MacBook, intersting if you are a videographer.

You can run Xcode on the MacBook, not on the Razer, if you are a programmer.

Etc. etc. etc.

For ports? The Razer doesn't have the same Thunderbolt 3.0 ports.
Yes, the razer DOES have Thunderbolt 3.0 port!

Nope, the only joke is the MacBook having "Pro" in its name. Apparently, you are not in the video business. Adobe Premiere is the most widespread program in use. It's debatable if the Razer or the mac has a better keyboard.

The Alienware has a superior cooling system and can maintain overclocked maximum CPU speeds while the MacBook is barely able to sustain base level clock speeds!!! The Alienware Cinebench speeds beat the MacBook!

You know, I understand, I was once like you. Ignorant of the shortcomings of the Mac hardware and how it impedes the user. Maybe someday you'll walk out of Apple's reality distortion field to see the truth.
 
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Frank Dalton

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Jun 26, 2015
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Oklahoma Territory
...better TouchBar...
LOL. This isn't a feature. Nobody wants this. *Not* having a touch bar is a major selling point.

On top of that, you can't run Final Cut Pro X on the Razer, you can on the MacBook, intersting if you are a videographer.
I hate to break it to you, but the professional video world has largely moved on from the Mac. I'm not even a video guy and I know this.