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Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11 [Updated]

Both of these companies are pieces of ***** who exploit their customers and their employees, so with that playing field level, I still support Epic on this one 100%. Signing a contract where you submit to highway robbery doesn’t make it ok to rob people and even though it’s another greedy pos company, that doesn’t make it right.
 
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dguisinger said:
This just reminds other developers that if they rely on too many Apple services, Apple can kneel on their necks anytime they want..... it really feels more like intimidation efforts towards other developers at this point to keep them in line.
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I think this is exactly part of Epic's strategy. Apple is under scrutiny for their business practices in the EU and US. If it works is yet to be seen, but if you're trying to paint Apple as a monopolist bully....

Someone is getting spanked and probably Apple and Google. I think in the next year or two things will be quite interesting. There are two mobile platforms. Both have the ability to hold developers and customers hostage.

Apple has had a series of leaked emails about behind the scenes business dealings that are a boon to Epic, particularly those Amazon ones. It's going to be entertaining to say the least to see how this all plays out.
 
McG2k1 said:
Both of these companies are pieces of ***** who exploit their customers and their employees, so with that playing field level, I still support Epic on this one 100%. Signing a contract where you submit to highway robbery doesn’t make it ok to rob people and even though it’s another greedy pos company, that doesn’t make it right.
Click to expand...

How big was that gun that Apple held up to Epic to sign that contract?
 
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McG2k1 said:
Both of these companies are pieces of ***** who exploit their customers and their employees, so with that playing field level, I still support Epic on this one 100%. Signing a contract where you submit to highway robbery doesn’t make it ok to rob people and even though it’s another greedy pos company, that doesn’t make it right.
Click to expand...

So, why didn't Epic Games make a case against Sony, Microsoft, and Valve? 30% is 30%. They obviously tried to get around the rules with Google, so they got smacked, mostly as they did with Apple.
 
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4jasontv said:
Epic changed the payment structure and created a potentially unsafe experience for users. It doesn't matter if they cause harm, all that maters is that they exposed users to potential harm.
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I'm being a bit humorous here, but do you know what "unsafe" means? That's a bit fear mongery. Hundreds of thousands of people use Epic's pay system every single day. Heck, before Fortnite came to iOS, Apple users used that "potentially unsafe" payment system.

It's a fairly weak false narrative with no basis of fact. There may indeed be valid justifications for Apple's actions, but that ain't one of 'em.
 
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Scipster said:
That's only one perspective (Apple's). Let's look at the same facts from a developer's perspective (Epic's). Let's see -
  • Sent email requesting fairer business practices for all developers (Apple called this a "sidedeal", but this was a blatant mischaracterization because they omitted part of the email that literally said "all developers". The full email was later released, and news agencies updated their articles to accurately reflect the facts. You can read about it here: https://www.macrumors.com/2020/08/21/epic-games-sought-app-store-side-deal/)
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There's no point in reading anything you say after this, because you are mischaracterizing the mail. The whole thing is "epic wants to do this" and "let epic do that."

You object to Apple calling it a "Side deal" but THE DAMNED LETTER SAYS "Apple would need to provide a side letter..."

After demanding a special deal for itself, the letter mentions in passing "we hope you'll make it available to other developers as well" but never demands that Apple does this.

From the letter:

- "WE [epic] would like to offer ... competing payment processing options ... competing epic games store..."
- "If *EPIC* were allowed to provide..."
- "EPIC is requesting that apple agree ... to permit EPIC to roll out these options..."

Everything apple said is true. Epic demanded a side deal. Epic cared only about itself.
 
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jahall05 said:
Sounds like it would have been much smarter to revert the change to the app back to in app payments with Apple and then fight it in court. How many users are going to now get locked out and not care to be bothered calling to get back in and just find a new toy to play with?

I guess this does all hinge on whether or not Sign In with Apple was popular or not though.
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Or users will find a new platform to play with the toys they love. Platforms function are to enable content. Apple is limiting this (xcloud, forced in-app purchases). I don't like Fortnite and not big fan of Epic, but at the end if they succeed, it will benefit consumers.

I for one I am glad they are not taking the easy out and just come back and play by Apple Terms. I do not have any motivation to cheer for any company (we are individuals are meaningless to them, they're just after our wallets, and I only care about their products). I just care of what will benefit me, as a consumer, and Epic course of action seems to be the one that would benefit us consumers the most.

But hey, if you instead of reasonable consumers want to blindly cheer for Apple, sure go ahead! Unfortunate, as that's part of why Apple gets away with some things no one else would, but not much I can do about it.

Also, I get a kick out of the many "lawyers" out here, who seem to know all their in and outs around contracts, applicability and all. Amazing!
 
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Duane Martin said:
Apple's approach here feels a step-too-far as it is likely to affect Apple customers negatively in a way that they can only be linked directly back to Apple. That and the precedent being set, as stated in a previous post, that Sign in with Apple is possibly not as reliable as other options.

Hopefully Apple rethinks escalating in this way. I cannot see how this does not start to look like Apple is willing to sacrifice customer experience to make a point I believe has already been made. Move it to the courts to be settled.
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All of this is very likely being done after extensive legal consultation and opinion
 
Is this an overreach by Apple, or a consequence of Epic having their developer account closed? Closing the separate dev account for Unreal Engine, felt like a bit of a punitive overreach (not entirely unjustified, but not entirely necessary from what I know of the agreements).

In this case is Apple just winding down services provided by the dev account, or are they starting to terminate separate contracts? That's a different question from what actions would survive a court review-- whether or not they can get away with this, I'm not sure whether it's an escalation.

I have no idea how the SiwA service is structured...
 
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dguisinger said:
I'm not stupid, I get that. But understand other developers are watching. Developers have been blocked from the store for extremely stupid reasons in the past, do you think they see this and think "Oh, it would be smart of me to use Sign in with Apple and give Apple even more control of our users"?
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It's not binary and nothing is perfect. Yes, there has been some comments from a seemingly small group developers relative to the entirety. If a developer wants to sell their apps, they have to give their customers what they want. Users, anecdotally, usually don't care about what is being argued about in these posts...maybe unless they are MR members and participate in these forums.
 
69Mustang said:
I'm being a bit humorous here, but do you know what "unsafe" means? That's a bit fear mongery. Hundreds of thousands of people use Epic's pay system every single day. Heck, before Fortnite came to iOS, Apple users used that "potentially unsafe" payment system.

It's a fairly weak false narrative with no basis of fact. There may indeed be valid justifications for Apple's actions, but that ain't one of 'em.
Click to expand...

Unsafe means opportunity for harm. Epic's bypassing of the app store payment increased the opportunity for harm, therefore it is unsafe. No fear-mongering. It doesn't matter if people use it without incident. That's not the issue.
 
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There are a lot of comments here that display a fundamental shortcoming with understanding why this is being done.

Sign-In with Apple ID is a feature that requires an Apple Developer account.

developer.apple.com

Getting Started - Sign in with Apple

Sign in with Apple makes it easy for users to sign in to your apps and websites using their Apple Account.
developer.apple.com developer.apple.com

Given that Epic Games’ developer account has been banned, it stands to reason that this would also affect their ability to make use of the Sign-In with Apple ID feature.

Some might then ask, “Well, why did they wait until September 11th to remove this?”

Well, it’s a standard 2 week grace period from the date that Epic Games’ Apple developer account was banned. It’s more than likely that Epic Games knew this was going to happen when they received notice from Apple that their Apple developer account had been banned (it was banned on September 28th). The more pertinent question, IMO, is why did Epic Games wait this long to let their customers know? To me, it smells like another PR/propaganda effort by Epic Games, and is another example of how Epic is using their customers as pawns with this whole issue.
 
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JCCL said:
Or users will find a new platform to play with the toys they love. Platforms function are to enable content. Apple is limiting this (xcloud, forced in-app purchases). I don't like Fortnite and not big fan of Epic, but at the end if they succeed, it will benefit consumers.

I for one I am glad they are not taking the easy out and just come back and play by Apple Terms. I do not have any motivation to cheer for any company (we are individuals are meaningless to them, they're just after our wallets, and I only care about their products). I just care of what will benefit me, as a consumer, and Epic course of action seems to be the one that would benefit us consumers the most.

But hey, if you instead of reasonable consumers want to blindly cheer for Apple, sure go ahead! Unfortunate, as that's part of why Apple gets away with some things no one else would, but not much I can do about it.

Also, I get a kick out of the many "lawyers" out here, who seem to know all their in and outs around contracts, applicability and all. Amazing!
Click to expand...

Who said I was cheering for anyone? Your assumptions are giving me a kick as well.
All I said was they should have fought it while keeping things the way they were. If they win they get their way and might win something on top of it. Who knows. I’m not a lawyer. A good chunk of KIDS play fortnite and may not want to just go buy a new device so they can play. In fact... might be an out for some of them! Ha.
 
This honestly looks really bad on Apple, a sign in service that will void an account in a moment’s notice. It would be another thing if they just didn’t allow new sign ins.
 
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I saw this happening which is why a couple years ago I unlinked my Spotify account from Facebook. I was able to sign in to my Spotify account through Facebook. I had to email them to unlink it and allow me to just log in with my email address. I'm glad I did because I no longer use facebook.
 
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