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Apple Discontinuing Java Installation Packages for Mac OS X?
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Wait! I get it! This is a game!
The hysteria isn't hysterical enough!
The slippery slope isn't acute enough!
Let's make something else up!
Teh Steve is taking away... Teh Intarwebz! In the new version that nobody has even seen yet, I'm declaring that a little voice told the neighbor of someone I totally sort of know, that Apple is taking away Teh Intarwebz in the new OSX!
ZOMG!!11!1!!eleventy!1!!!
OK, you're turn, make up something even something even more outlandish and pretend it's real! ... ready ... go ...
That is pretty bad. Both the computer science and information technology departments in my university initially teach java. Most of the professors in the computer science department have macs.....they are going to have a rude awakening soon enough.....
Oracle could make a port based on Cocoa but who's to say that Apple won't sabotage that? Oracle could make a port based on X11 but again, who's to say X11 will stick around.
There are other users of OS X than your run of the mill consumer. Microsoft takes these users very seriously which is why Windows is big in the enterprise.
Apple have, for several years, gone in another direction. They try to make a really nice system for consumers and hope that they'll get picked up by companies by employees wanting to use OS X at work.
That's fair enough. I'm not arguing that it's not a viable and vastly profitable solution for Apple. I'm just doubtful that Oracle would try to get into a relationship with a company that doesn't seem to want anything to do with them.
It's early days and all that. Neither Lion nor Java 7 is out yet but can we really believe Apple when they say they'll continue to support Java 6? I wouldn't bet on it.
Apple is not trying to push into corporate market with Mac OS X. They are "happy" when consumers pull them in as hand held iOS gadgets. But they really aren't trying all that hard to push Mac OS X into the core enterprise infrastructure.
Most of the java in the enterprise space is server side. That java code (e.g, jsp , J2EE , etc. ) never executes on the client side, only on the server side. Apple's huge push for the client side is for javascript ; not java. If enterprise lines up with that, OK. If not they'll tell them to take a leap or take a hit and port/rewrite the code.
Apple isn't going to outright ban Java on Mac OS X. But suspect they aren't going to make life easy for a port either.
If Larry ignores Mac OSX, A major plus of Java is now no longer there. There's already a lot of competition between different enterprise development platforms, Java needs every edge it can get.
The same could also be said of Windows, what guarantee does Oracle have that Microsoft won't deprecate Java and make .Net the only VM available? Oracle is a direct competitor to Microsoft now, Ballmer might not like that.
Microsoft believes, and have always believed, that developers is what primarily drives the platform. That's why you have monkey boy running around on stage on the very edge of a massive coronary. The more, the merrier. The Java developers of today might become the C# developers of tomorrow.
Apple believes that consumers is what drives the platform and if they buy it, developers will come.
Apple is killing anything that will get between Apple and more cash from it customers. Flash, Java, whatever... it will be gone inside a year.
just a slight mod, hope you don't mind.
Larry _HAS_ ignored Java and so had Sun - that is on Mac OS X. There is NO major plus for Java on OSX when looking from Larry's POV - No one runs Server side apps on OSX and Larry doesn't make money selling you or me Java "apps" that run on the OS X desktop - he just doesn't care about it.
Same could be said of Windows? Have you NEVER heard of the words "Antitrust" and "Microsoft" together? Can you point out a single instance where post the Antitrust ruling Microsoft has done anything illegal to abuse their monopoly? Microsoft "banning" or "deprecating" or otherwise "paralyzing" Java in any way shape or form constitutes a violation of the Antitrust settlement. Plus they sell Server OS - many Windows Server installs exist because they run Java App Server - they are not penny wise and pound foolish.
I find it really hard to believe that Java won't be supported on OS X anymore. OS X makes a decent dev environment for Java, there are plenty of Java developers, most people in academia I know use OS X and rely heavily on Java, Java is heavily used for enterprise apps, and so on. I am almost certain that someone (Oracle), somehow is going to keep Java on the Mac alive. Anything else would be unbelievable -- you don't just drop a major programming language and ecosystem from your platform.
You might if you no longer want to sell computers, but instead want to charge for streaming movies and TV shows and sell appliances, mobiles and gadgets. It seems that Apple wants to be the Sony of old.
Again, I hope you're right but it's been apparent for years that Apple couldn't care less about Java so it's not exactly out of the blue.
...but I really hope Oracle is going to show me just how wrong I am
Listen, Objective-C is the most unproductive language on the planet. It's a puzzle just coding it. Secondly, Obj-C has stolen, err converted, a lot of java libraries, but, that doesn't mean you can run:
JBuilder, SqlDeveloper, MQ server, Glassfish, TomCat, Netbeans, JEdit to name a few programs that Require a Java Runtime.
Next, it's Java, and not Objective-C that's ADVANCED Computer Science in this country. C# - direct Steal of Java. Obj-C - concepts and library steal. These other languages have contributed Little beyond what Java delivers.
Next 2, this Kills Mac on a Corporate Desktop. Whereas before you could use the excuse of development, now you've got Nothing.
Lastly, If java starts up slowly, like SqlDeveloper does, it's because it's re-validating all the code libraries it's loading. In other words, a Trojan file cannot be loaded by the Java class loaded. Yes, this takes longer, but is it better that C and Obj-C do NOT perform these tests?
Microsoft paid Sun $20 million for Java license violations
No idea what you're getting at. But maybe this will help: Microsoft paid Sun $20 million for a Java license violation way back in 2001. And it looks like Oracle will use that legal precedent to kill Android with their current lawsuit. Looking forward to it.
No idea what you're getting at. But maybe this will help: Microsoft paid Sun $20 million for a Java license violation way back in 2001. And it looks like Oracle will use that legal precedent to kill Android with their current lawsuit. Looking forward to it.
It's easy once you get used to it. Syntactic sugar, forest for the trees, yadda yadda.
The Cocoa object frameworks are what give Objective-C its power. And they're very easy to use. Trust me. You seem like a smart guy, I'm sure you can learn Objective-C and Cocoa.
Oh I know that - but it's not relevant to this discussion. Thanks, but no thanks for trying to spread the same Oracle lawsuit FUD again - been done several times before, just presume Oracle has killed Android and move on. Mmkay?
Ahem. Java is an old language that is about as far from the state of the art as you can get. Same with Objective C. C# was a port of Java in the beginning but has evolved significantly since then.
However, a lot of interesting languages run on the JVM, such as Scala.
But, I can't Justify it.
I can't spend Hundreds of hours coding an application that will only run on a Mac.
Secondly, I need stuff like Oracle Database access thru JDBC.
I need Metadata.
I'm not going back to 1990 database access.
I'm not sure you really understand X11's purpose. You need a X11 Server if the application you are running is needs on. That doesn't have to be a local app. That can be a remote app that you need to display locally. There are workarounds run vnc on remote box and start multiple X11 server sessions there. But can also just "ssh -x remote.machine.com" to get session started.
Everyone isn't going to use X11 but everyone isn't going to use the Terminal app either. That doesn't mean Apple should stop shipping the terminal app. It doesn't make sense for a bunch of different vendors to put X11 onto Mac OS X. Once have to pay for X11 it just shrinks the usage al lthe more. If Apple can put most of the rest of FreeBSD userland on Mac OS X then can put X11 on. Otherwise just drop Unix and lock people into the Mac OS X Lion launchpad.
While technically part of Posix/Unix standard.... X11 is defacto part of being a Unix box. If just want to be a poser Unix then sure skip it.
Mac OS X is the dominate desktop for the Unix Workstation market. Yeah, it isn't as big as the iPod shuffle market, but still there. I'm not so sure Apple's market share is so big than they can start telling whole class of users to just "go away" , you don't matter. The reality is that Apple has about 4-6% of the market. It wouldn't take much to partially kill off growth if send all the Unix Developers and users packing. It also sets a bad precedent that will kick user base to curb when get "just big enough" to do so. X11 is open source. It isn't like they need a herd of coders to keep it going on Mac OS X.
If there was a BSD style licensed VMWare clone that was very good that Apple could inexpensively put on Mac OS X that would be a good thing to add to. Users can do "more stuff" in environments where not the dominate OS. That minority position is inherently Mac OS X's position. Getting snotty now is a dubious course of action over the long term.
But yeah... if run a 95% Windows shop with another 5% of Mac users... sure... nobody is using X11. However, if sitting somewhere it is a 98% Linux/Unix computation servers where multiple folks login and do work .... then you probably will.
Mac OS X is a better Unix "desktop" than Linux is for large number of people.
Nothing scales like Java.
Glassfish is the killer app.
If you don't have Glassfish, you've got nothing.