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Read again what I wrote.

I read it. This is what you wrote – apparently you meant something else than what you wrote:

Sure, but all context items all over the OS and in third party apps refer to Safari. Like for example in Unison, you can click on a link and it will open in Firefox. But right-click on a phrase and select "search in Google" and Safari will start up....Hang on...yep. Same in Mail.

And when you set another browser as the system wide default browser, this works. I can set everything to open in camino, omniweb and firefox, and it works. If it's not working for you, you should repair permissions first, methinks.
 
So my iTunes update on my PC now comes with 'adware', eh?

I'm sorry, but I'm amazed Apple stooped this low. It's not like they even fess up to it, they leave the Software Update window as it is for an actual update. It shows as if it's an update, asking you to 'select the items you want to UPDATE' (emphasis MINE) and then at the bottom saying that the EULA in place on the original software also applied to this updated version. So what exactly is that agreement, since there is no prior version?

What a load of crap...

(edit, after deciding to allow it to install Safari since I was planning to anyway)

So it even goes to far as to add icons to your QuickLaunch and Desktop without asking, something even the most retarded home-made apps manage to do. Ridiculous.
 

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Dirty Practice huh? Now it's "Dirty"? Your choice of words is getting more laughable for every one of your posts.

So what would be your ideal way for Apple to get Safari in more computer users faces to increase marketshare so we can freely use any web browser without facing the dreaded "Sorry I.E. Only" without playing "Dirty". Waiting for people to go to the website to download it ain't gonna solve Jack Crap.

Did you seemingly forget about Google's self-installing browser toolbars? Is that playing nice?
Don't worry, I won't reply anymore because I realize I'm talking to a brick wall.:rolleyes:

glad i have the final word. :)

how to free users from ie w/o dirty play, and remove those "ie only"? in case you skipped last two years, goto wiki and read history of "firefox".
 
I got hooked on iTunes after Apple forced me to install it along with Quicktime (maybe they didn't force me, but I couldn't find a way around it), and before long iTunes was my primary music player. A few months later I bought my first Mac and my first iPod.

Haven't looked back since.

I think it's brilliant, if not a bit underhanded.
 
As a sometimes Windows user (for games mainly) I was a bit surprised they are pushing Safari 3.1 on the Apple Software Update for Windows. For iTunes, I agree, it's handy, but it shouldn't bug you for anything else unless iTunes has software dependencies. I don't think iTunes needs Quicktime, but it gives you that too.

See, the Apple update I can understand, it updates all Apple products, iTunes, gives security updates, patches. Now when you do it for Windows, anything beyond iTunes is spam to me.
 
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/420.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 Mobile/4A102 Safari/419.3)

whatever works
 
If you're stupid enough to install software on a Windows computer without knowing what you're installing, you deserve to get a virus. That's another reason I have a Mac.

And for Apple, I admire their courage at letting Windows users know what the best browser is: Safari. Windows users who hate Apple wouldn't install it anyway and those who are open-minded might just give it a try.
 
For what it's worth, Safari and Bonjour are the only Apple apps I have on my Windows machine. Still, iTunes and QuickTime both show up in Apple Software Update.
 
IMHO, I think that the argument of granny and grandpa being tricked into downloading Safari is complete BS. So they're proficient enough to use iTunes, but they're now being tricked into installing something they don't need? Yeah that makes sense. I'm not saying this isn't a little shady, but I don't think its as big a deal as people are making it. Could Apple reprogram the dialogue to say that this is a new piece of software or something like that? Yes, but I don't think they need to. Now if people want to say that Windows users aren't as smart as Mac users...well...I won't disagree. Otherwise they wouldn't still be using Windows. LOL. Recent have studies have seemed to back this way of thinking. But seriously, read things before you install them. And I understand that in these days of ridiculously long EULA's, users are less likely to read ANYTHING before they install, but at least glance at something before you click the install button.

So my iTunes update on my PC now comes with 'adware', eh?

I'm sorry, but I'm amazed Apple stooped this low. It's not like they even fess up to it, they leave the Software Update window as it is for an actual update. It shows as if it's an update, asking you to 'select the items you want to UPDATE' (emphasis MINE) and then at the bottom saying that the EULA in place on the original software also applied to this updated version. So what exactly is that agreement, since there is no prior version?

What a load of crap...

(edit, after deciding to allow it to install Safari since I was planning to anyway)

So it even goes to far as to add icons to your QuickLaunch and Desktop without asking, something even the most retarded home-made apps manage to do. Ridiculous.

Its obvious that the window holds static data. Most of it remains the same regardless of what your installing or updating. If Apple, Microsoft, or any other software company created multiple dynamic dialogue windows for every possibility, the size of software would be rather large. Then there would be forums complaining about how much space is wasted by the OS and installed apps. This is a standard practice among all software developers.
 
IMHO, I think that the argument of granny and grandpa being tricked into downloading Safari is complete BS. So they're proficient enough to use iTunes, but they're now being tricked into installing something they don't need? Yeah that makes sense. I'm not saying this isn't a little shady, but I don't think its as big a deal as people are making it. Could Apple reprogram the dialogue to say that this is a new piece of software or something like that? Yes, but I don't think they need to. Now if people want to say that Windows users aren't as smart as Mac users...well...I won't disagree. Otherwise they wouldn't still be using Windows. LOL. Recent have studies have seemed to back this way of thinking. But seriously, read things before you install them. And I understand that in these days of ridiculously long EULA's, users are less likely to read ANYTHING before they install, but at least glance at something before you click the install button.

A wise piece of truth in this debate.
 
Ugh. It was annoying enough to have Quicktime shoved into my iTunes download when I used Windows, since everytime it installed it made itself a little home in the lower right status bar AND in my quicklaunch bar. Adding Safari is just more bloat. Maybe some people think it's great to be bringing the joys of Safari to Windows users, but if there's anything Windows people need less of, it's bloatware. Windows is about customization, and besides, Firefox is a way better browser for that operating system.
 
This is ridiculous.

I'm all for more people using Safari, but if Apple is going to distribute it through their Software Update application, they need to at least mark it as "new" and deselect it by default.

What's even worse is that Apple Software Update popped up on me today at work, offering Safari 3.1 to a Windows 2000 machine- a machine that Safari won't even run on! It's done that with newer, incompatible versions of iTunes, too.

Get it together, Apple!

Eh? iTunes needs Quicktime to work. Without it you wouldn't hear the music or see the video. iTunes is the management app, Quicktime does all the playback.

Nothing wrong with Quicktime, not going to hurt a Windows machine anyway.

Unless you're using something like EasyWorship that will not work if QuickTime is installed; it requires QuickTime Alternative.

I don't really like this expansion of iTunes. ITunes already has a cluttered interface with lots of things I don't care about or need. This just makes iTunes a bulkier and more ungainly product (though actually I'm not a windows user, so maybe it's not so bad on Windows).

I think you might be confused... Safari does not become a part of iTunes; it's a separate application. What does happen is when iTunes and thus, Apple Software Update, is installed, Software Update offers you Safari 3.1, even if you don't have a previous version of Safari installed.

That is not how it is presented at all. It pops up in the Window's automatic update window. Then you have to click either "proceed" or "quit". If you decide to hit quit, then it will ask you again if you would like to proceed with your automatic updates the next time you log on.

I don't know where you checked last.

What version of Windows are you using? In XP and 2000 at work, it popped up in the Apple Software Update application, not in the Windows Automatic Updates daemon-thingy. Did your screen look different than arn's earlier screen shot of the Apple SU application?

Hmm. When I installed Microsoft Office on my Mac, Microsoft attempted to install Explorer too. :rolleyes:

What are you talking about? Internet Explorer's last version on the Mac was 5.2.3 in 2003 and Windows Explorer is Microsoft's version of the Finder. Microsoft would not be pushing IE 5.2.3; they officially began pushing Safari shortly after it was released and Windows Explorer won't run in OS X, nor would it be of any use...

It's not like Apple is secretly installing Safari along with iTunes. It's just informing you - or pestering you, depending on your level of interest - that Safari for Windows is updated and available. It's not hard to uncheck the box and Quit instead of install it, right? Or turn Apple Software Update off completely?

That's the thing, though. The way Apple is presenting Safari (without a "new" tag, explanation, or default deselect of the checkbox to install) makes it look (to the "average" user [is there a such thing? :rolleyes:]) like a normal update. It makes it appear like Safari is already on their machine and they "have" to update to make sure everything works properly.

Think about some grandmother seeing this... she'll say, "Oh, I'd better hit that button even though I don't know what it means." People don't read these things; they don't look for ways out of it, they just click "OK" and move on, hoping the world doesn't fall in around them.

Here here.

I don't think I would mind as much if there was a different section of "Apple Software Update" that showed programs available from Apple.

If you didn't have Safari installed on Windows, it could tell you it was available. However, it should not select it for installation by default, nor should it look like an update to software you have installed.[/Q

Very good idea; Google does this with Google Updater.

However, wouldn't it be nice to only have one updater? Like if MSAU went away and MS software was updated through Apple Software Update on OS X and vice versa on Windows (not that I don't love ASU!).
 
If you're stupid enough to install software on a Windows computer without knowing what you're installing, you deserve to get a virus. That's another reason I have a Mac.

Because you're "stupid enough to install software on a Windows computer without knowing what you're installing?"
 
That's just WRONG. Likewise, making it hard to download just Quicktime without getting iTunes is wrong. (The reverse is necessary and is ok.)

Are there no software engineers on this board? "The reverse" is neither necessary, nor is it ok. There is a quicktime library, and there are quicktime front-end applications. iTunes itself is a front-end app that uses quicktime library for some of its stuff, so the library needs to be installed (without even asking/telling the user). However, neither the QuickTime player nor the web plugin needs to be installed. Also no icons and shortcuts need to be made on the desktop. And no registry entries. And you should never be asked whether to open .bla with QuickTime by default.
 
Windows users might find it annoying being pushed to download a browser that most of them would probably not wish to have. Firefox is far superior, and heavy javascript work perfectly on both Explorer and Firefox, but not on Safari. Even Apple users know that Safari is a toy browser and nothing robust. I think Safari is suitable to the Iphone and other smartphones much better than on regular computers.
 
If Microsoft was doing this everyone and their mother would be screaming bloody murder, and have, everyone was screaming when they rolled out IE7 as a critical update. Yes you could deselect it just as you can safari but having it selected by default makes the likelihood of install 10x greater....but its Apple so that makes it alright.
 
From the Safari License on my Thinkpad :D

2. Permitted License Uses and Restrictions.
A. This License allows you to install and use one copy of the Apple Software on a single Apple-labeled computer at a time. The Apple Software may be used to reproduce materials so long as such use is limited to reproduction of non-copyrighted materials, materials in which you own the copyright, or materials you are authorized or legally permitted to reproduce.
 
No, because I don't want to take the chance of installing a virus accidentally.

I really am sick of people who think you sneeze on a PC and it'll get a virus. The simple fact is get a firewall, get a router, get AV software, keep your system patched, and for the love of god use Firefox; and you just dropped the chance of getting a virus on your computer to about 5%. (Note that most of the above recommendations are just as sound on a Mac as on a PC..sans the AV software.) Heck I collect viruses on a stand alone flash drive. I have about 80 right now on it. Things like Love Bug, NYB, Win95.CIH, MS Blaster, Melissa among others. I've freaked out more then a few people when I've double clicked on it and oops...never mind....Norton Corp Edt caught it. disaster averted, the world can keep on spinning.
And with vista the chance drops even further with the limited access to system files by default.
Seriously the FUD being thrown around by the uninformed really does annoy me. I really don't give a #2 about Windows. I have no love for OS X, and Linux makes me reach for my Prevacid. But the concept that Windows hasn't gotten better since the days of MS Blaster is just plain asinine and its *holds up his hands and waves in a freaky jester* Ooooo look out you will get a virus in 5 minutes of using Windows is stupid. Maybe before SP2 or now the new and improved SP3 that should be released Monday...that may have been the case but now? Meh. Whatever. Its too early in the morning to get into this too far...ZZZZzzzzZZZzzzzz
 
Firefox is far superior, and heavy javascript work perfectly on both Explorer and Firefox, but not on Safari. Even Apple users know that Safari is a toy browser and nothing robust.

Uhh yeah, because that whole Safari vs. Firefox debate ended a long time ago, and that's why Gecko is doing better on Acid3 than Webkit, right? How come no one told me!
 
I was looking at the software update and to me it looks fairly clear what Apple is doing. If you look at the text in bold it is clear that Safari is just a piece of new software from Apple.

applecrap.jpg

then at the bottom saying that the EULA in place on the original software also applied to this updated version. So what exactly is that agreement, since there is no prior version?

Looking at the final highlight, I think that applies to the software update program itself.

It shows as if it's an update, asking you to 'select the items you want to UPDATE'

That it says you should update is technically wrong. It should be reported as a bug.

So it even goes to far as to add icons to your QuickLaunch and Desktop without asking, something even the most retarded home-made apps manage to do. Ridiculous.

This should also be reported as a bug.

It undermines the trust relationship great companies have with their customers, and that's bad — not just for Apple, but for the security of the whole Web.

Frankly, he's just whining that he can't use this distribution method. If you look at the highlighted sections its fairly clear whats going on, just not totally.

EDIT:
everyone was screaming when they rolled out IE7 as a critical update. Yes you could deselect it just as you can safari but having it selected by default makes the likelihood of install 10x greater....but its Apple so that makes it alright.

I thought that was a brilliant move by Microsoft and totally acceptable, as IE 7 had far better security.
 
So this spyware thing called Safari popped up yesterday...

Yeah, the Apple Update box pops up with Safari already checked to "update". Problem is I have never installed Safari before. Call it what it is please. Should have had another box underneath updates called "Available Programs" or such which all default to unchecked. It's pretty sleazy and I uninstalled all the Apple software I had on this machine.

This reminds me of my grumpiness at iTunes and Quicktime being bundled with no Quicktime only alternative.
 
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