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People keep posting comments like this in the WFH threads, and then I see them in the other threads talking about how they fell asleep during the WWDC keynote because it was such a snoozefest. Which is it?
It was a snooze fest because it was overproduced and lacked emotion.
There's lots of great stuff to talk about and ability to hype it up but adding lots of marketing phrases and overly elaborate effects isn't it.
Doesn't work for movies, doesn't work for Apple. DC tried because they thought it made Marvel movies popular, but the lavish effects didn't save the bad story line and mediocre acting.
 
Ive worked from home since the pandemic and I understand how hard to communicate with others when everyone is working from home. whatever simple things that usually take a few minutes now need a dedicate meeting to schedule.
 
A lot of ancient relics in here. Some of corporate America has learned absolutely nothing over the past 18 months apparently. Let’s get back to the wasteful and unnecessary commuting to an office building everyday. WFH employees kept your businesses running and profitable during the last year and a half! :rolleyes:
Keeping things running and being competitive worldwide are two very different things. I’ve worked in both environments, and based on my experience, the companies that require employees to work in an office, even if just for 3 days/week, will win.

There might be few exceptions, like FB, Twitter, Google, etc... the monopolies that don’t really need to innovate to compete, but for the most part, face to face, in-person meetings will bear far more fruit than zoom calls.
 
If people want to speak up for their own needs, let them. Where's the harm in that? "Bitching and whining" might be your old-school way of belittling by associating them with perceived "negative" behavior by women and children, but it really only reveals your own insecurity and discomfort with change...

In a strong economy, skilled workers have more leverage and ought to use it. And yes, if they are unhappy with the response, they can and will leave for other opportunities. That's what intelligent, talented and capable people do all the time.
Employer: Here are the job requirements, do you agree and want this job?

Candidate: Yes please! And thank you! Yay! I get to work for an awesome company!

later…

Company: It’s time to start transitioning back to the original agreement.

Candidate/now employee: I don’t like the original agreement anymore. You temporarily modified it for necessary reasons, and although you told me it was temporary and expect the modification to end and go back to initial employment agreement, you need to change the modification to a permanent one because it suits me better. AND I’LL SCREAM LOUDER THAN YOU AND THROW A TANTRUM UNTIL I GET MY WAY!!!!
 
A lot of ancient relics in here. Some of corporate America has learned absolutely nothing over the past 18 months apparently. Let’s get back to the wasteful and unnecessary commuting to an office building everyday. WFH employees kept your businesses running and profitable during the last year and a half! :rolleyes:
Yeah this thread has been a massive eye-opener. I was -so- expecting to see sense prevail and most people to be siding with the workforce. Having been at least half work-from-home over the last 4 years, and then having had it for most of last year, along with everyone else, and seeing the benefits to everyone in terms of productivity and mood, I struggle to see the deterrents. Why go out of your way now to ensure an unhappy team?
 
My employer has tried off-shoring employees and consultants several times and they’ve always backed off because the quality has always been crap.

Our IT shop is not small (several hundred) but even before COVID we’ve had trouble attracting enough IT help simply because we’re not in big tech area. I hate to see how it will be going forward.
Exactly this. Outsourcing was huge in the early 2000s, at least until all the projects started blowing up and failing. In my company, it matured into offshoring where we setup development centers in cheaper locations like Prague which has tons of high quality talent. But that's not something that happens over night, nor on an individual employee basis. And you have to have a large enough population for the costs to make sense. For an idea, my company has more than 10k tech employees.
 
There are health considerations that also need to be considered. People who need to have accommodations for personal health issues like autoimmune diseases, cancer survivors and other disabilities can't reasonably be asked to work in a space where they can contract this virus. Even people who live with vulnerable parents and children shouldn't be required to be in an office or closed room where they can be exposed. Ever worked in an office where one person came in with a cold and then the whole group got it? Generally a cold isn't fatal but people are more responsible to work than their own personal health because they don't want to be seen as weak.
 
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What did these people do before covid? It’s not like California housing prices just shot up in the last year.
Median sale price of Bay Area houses increased by 38.9% between May 2020 and May 2021 [1].

San Francisco saw an increase in home prices of approximately $330,000 between Q1 2020 and Q2 2021 [2].

Sources
[1]https://www.noradarealestate.com/blog/san-francisco-real-estate-market/
[2]https://www.bayareamarketreports.com/trend/san-francisco-home-prices-market-trends-news
 
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Ive worked from home since the pandemic and I understand how hard to communicate with others when everyone is working from home. whatever simple things that usually take a few minutes now need a dedicate meeting to schedule.
I think this is totally the point.
I can work for 10 straight minutes in the office before I get interrupted.
When I work at home I can plan my communication, make notes, prepare, and be a more effective communicator.

Tacking onto that - no one is ever on time for a meeting in the office. Literally no one. 10 minutes late is the norm. Part of that is walking or taking the elevator from their previous meeting, sometimes it's because the line at Starbucks was long.
Now that we meet online, everyone arrives within 30 seconds of start time.
 
Translation: Those who now own/buying houses in area will resume commuting to the spaceship campus. Of those who are renting, 50% will also resume commuting to spaceship, 25% will transfer to Apple in low cost state/city (Austin TX, etc), and 25% will leave the area to totally new jobs.

..so, Apple stands to lose 10%-ish of its Spaceship/Campbell area employees.... It may be a fluke, but I could help but notice large number of Apple adds on Indeed.com

 
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I hope Apple loses 1/3 of the Cupertino assigned employees so that Cook would learn a thing or two about living in a different post-Covid world.
Apple can’t afford to pay its employees the salaries commensurate with the ridiculously high housing prices within a commutable distance from the Cupertino spaceship. People are tired of living in apartments. People want a quality of life.

I’m saying this as a shareholder with over $1 million in APPL. Cook, stop treating people as if they were your property. They have lives, families, aspirations, desires, and they only live once. Competitors in the Silicon Valley have understood it and went 100% remote for those who want to work remote. No one is impressed with the stupid spaceship that you built. They don’t want to have to be stuck in this stupid building.

Ive had multiple offers from the Silicon Valley, including from Google in Mountain View. I refused to relocate there not because I didn’t like the area - I loved it - but because I didn’t want to exchange my 6,000 sq ft house fir a 1,200 sq ft apartment. Neither Apple nor Google impress me enough to have to live in a stupid apartment complex with my family. People are smarter than that. They will leave.
 
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Being told 3 times now that they're not going to be able to continue to watch tv from home under the guise of work IS whining
And you know all people working from home do this how? I can barely even listen to music or podcasts. I am in meetings all day - meetings I would still be in if I was at the office, training, coaching and more. No TV anywhere in my office. So please, show me stats of people just logging in to work and watching TV. If your work has a problem with productivity, it is the EMPLOYEE that is the issue, not the work from home policy.
 
I hope Apple loses 1/3 of the Cupertino assigned employees so that Cook would learn a thing or two about living in a different post-Covid world.
Apple can’t afford to pay its employees the salaries commensurate with the ridiculously high housing prices within a commutable distance from the Cupertino spaceship. People are tired of living in apartments. People want a quality of life.

I’m saying this as a shareholder with over $1 million in APPL. Cook, stop treating people as if they were your property. They have lives, families, aspirations, desires, and they only live once. Competitors in the Silicon Valley have understood it and went 100% remote for those who want to work remote. No one is impressed with the stupid spaceship that you built. They don’t want to have to be stuck in this stupid building.

Ive had multiple offers from the Silicon Valley, including from Google in Mountain View. I refused to relocate there not because I didn’t like the area - I loved it - but because I didn’t want to exchange my 6,000 sq ft house fir a 1,200 sq ft apartment. Neither Apple nor Google impress me enough to have to live in a stupid apartment complex with my family. People are smarter than that. They will leave.
They could work there before Covid, and they can work there again post-Covid.
I know that from experience and example.
Privilege and Entitlement are the thing or two about living in a post-Covid world, my friend.
 
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A lot of ancient relics in here. Some of corporate America has learned absolutely nothing over the past 18 months apparently. Let’s get back to the wasteful and unnecessary commuting to an office building everyday. WFH employees kept your businesses running and profitable during the last year and a half! :rolleyes:
I kind of wonder how many of them are relics, and how many of them are just younger and don't have the option to work from home, so they don't feel anyone else should get that either. That or they don't have the experience or worth to the company that allows them to negotiate perks from a position of a valued employee that the company doesn't want to lose.
 
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I was one of the volunteers during Covid to come in every day during the pandemic. I usually only work from home if I absolutely have to.

But lets talk about working from home in general.

Yes me being here was super important because there were things that needed physical interaction (Labs, data center trips, etc.)

But 99% of my job is at my desk in front of my screens.

Now lets talk about the execs/upper management. I got to sit with them during the pandemic because there were so few of us. What did coming in do for me? They all think I'm the best thing ever because they brought everything to me even if it had nothing to do with me. You don't know? Go find out and get back to me. This carried over when everyone came back and my team thinks I'm getting special treatment. Not a great situation.

Lets talk about schedules. My commute was pretty consistent during the pandemic with less traffic 40mins (now its back to an hour plus each way). I usually planned my commute during morning meetings I could listen in on and made it very clear as soon as I'm on a meeting guess what I'm working mettings start daily at 8:30am. I come in around 10 and leave anywhere between 5-8pm depending on what's going on.

Fridays? Yeah I'm by myself by 2pm tops. Oh I have things to do I'm out.

Why would anything change when the rules don't apply? I watched the uppers watch videos and SpaceX launches on their screens, shop on Amazon, and plenty of other things unacceptable to the rest of us. Anytime they are in a conference room 99% of the time not working they are refinancing their house talking to their kids etc.

When they made the decision to come back to work the VP of the company flat out said I miss seeing something funny on the internet and not being about to turn around and talk about it to my peers. This was during a public town hall when someone directly asked why do we have to come back. They throw out buzz works like culture but give examples they are basically this is my social time and I'm sick of my family.

People can work from home. People are complaining then you can slack off etc. I don't know about the rest of you but there is work to be done. You either do the work or you don't. If I'm home and I have an hour dead spot and can go mow the lawn it should be good for me. I can tell you right now that hour dead spot isn't turning into work while I am at my desk at work. Just turning into lost time (go chat at the watercooler type thing). My job endlessly requires stuff at night multiple times a month. Does the company care that I didn't meal prep or get the lawn done because I was on a call from the time I got home at 7pm until 1:30am? No they don't they care the work is done. At least from home I could get something done in that hour plus commute time then get on that late call.

I'm lucky to have a manager that knows I saw how the rules don't apply so I get to be pretty flexible but its a joke that people think its so normal to be a slave and that people still believe you should sit at your desk for eight hours with zero contact to the outside world. Those days are gone and in those days once you left the office that was that. Work follows us 24/7 so there should be some flex on the other side of the equation.

I come into the office becuase I like the change of scenery. I get my work done and its not always while I'm at my desk at work. I have the highest reviews of my team because I get stuff done. It has nothing to do with schedule/location/etc. A lot of my best work is done after 5pm and guess what its because there are not a bunch of side chats and drive by requests going on.
Careful with this. Many people will say that watercooler talk is ESSENTIAL to business and innovative ideas!

In general, I agree with you. Work is WAY more distracting than people here like to say it is. People talking about movies/tv shows in the cube next to me while I am trying to work. Or someone in the breakroom is really fired up about a sports game that happened last night when I am trying to talk to a co-worker while we get drinks. But people here make it seem like you NEED these things for ANY innovation.

Even while AT the office, if I wanted to talk to my CTO I had to do it via Skype or Teams.
 
Back to work!
giphy.gif

They were working. WFH kept Apple afloat for a year and a half.

Now Apple wants to pull the rug from under them. Thanks for nothing.
 
It's been a year and a half here now, and the sky hasn't fallen. Just proves that going to work (most work) is an antiquated practice from the 20's.
Tell that to all of the companies, like Apple, who invested tons of money in office space. I’m not saying that isn’t antiquated, I’m saying you can’t just flip a switch.
 
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Apple has made it clear that most of its employees will not be able to work remotely on a permanent basis, but that isn't stopping some corporate staff from continuing to push for more relaxed remote working rules, reports Recode.

apple-park-drone-june-2018-2.jpg

In a new petition that went out this week, employees are asking Apple to allow employees to work from home on a more permanent basis. Apple has agreed to a hybrid work schedule that will require employees to come into the office on Mondays, Tuesdays, and Thursdays, with the option of working remotely on Wednesdays and Fridays.

Some employees are not happy with this arrangement because it requires that they continue to live in the areas near Apple's campuses, which are expensive. Housing prices in Cupertino where Apple's two main campuses are located start at over $1 million.

In June, employees sent a letter to Apple CEO Tim Cook asking for a more flexible approach, which prompted a reply from Apple's VP of people, Deirdre O'Brien. She said that in-person collaboration is "essential" to Apple's culture and future.

The second letter going around this week suggests two "pilot arrangements" that would give employees an opportunity to work remotely for at least one year. Under the proposal, employees would be able to work remotely five days a week with the approval of their manager or department head, and in some cases, with a cost-of-living compensation adjustment. The letter also complains that it is too early to return to the office, with the full text available below.Apple employees maintain a Slack channel with more than 6,000 members where they have been discussing Apple's remote work policies and where the two petitions have been drafted from. Last week, employees complained to The Verge that Apple has been cracking down on remote work policies and approving fewer remote work requests following the hybrid model announcement.

Approximately 10 people from the Slack channel have claimed they are planning to quit if forced to return from the office, and it's likely that number is larger as not all employees participate in the channel.

Many tech companies in the Bay Area where Apple is located have gone fully remote or are offering more expansive work from home options for their employees. Google and Facebook, for example, are letting some employees work remotely on a permanent basis.

In Santa Clara County where Apple's Apple Park and Infinite Loop campuses are located, there is once again a mask recommendation, which is not yet a mandate. Employees are correct that Delta variant cases are ramping up in California, which does have the potential to impact Apple's September return plans.

Article Link: Apple Employees Continue to Fight Return to Campuses and Push for Better Remote Working Options
I wish I can work from home 2 out of 5 days a week. Apple should measure their productivity pre and post pandemic and fire the ones not performing as they should and still want to work from home their way. There are a lot of young graduate / people waiting (wanting) to work.
 
Yeah this thread has been a massive eye-opener. I was -so- expecting to see sense prevail and most people to be siding with the workforce. Having been at least half work-from-home over the last 4 years, and then having had it for most of last year, along with everyone else, and seeing the benefits to everyone in terms of productivity and mood, I struggle to see the deterrents. Why go out of your way now to ensure an unhappy team?

Jealousy and the inate desire of some to be unnecessarily cruel to others.
 
somebody has to use their billion dollar campus (a bad decision in a post pandemic world). I bet more than 50% of the work there can be made remotely. I really think the age of giant HQs is behind us.
 
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