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As a San Jose resident, I’m not hearing about a massive spread of CV in Santa Clara county. Is this preventive on Apples part or is the news not carrying the reports?

Edit... just read it’s up to 20 in Santa Clara county.
The problem is we don’t know the true numbers of infected people yet, but it’s a safe bet to assume they’re higher that the official numbers, probably much higher. Today a Lockheed Martin employee in Sunnyvale was confirmed to have it, they shut down the whole campus (4,000 people work there). With the amount of cross-pollinating that happens in the Valley, it won’t be long before you can’t escape it easily.
 
Some get slightly ill, some get seriously ill, a few die. But thanks for your well thought-out and considered opinion on a topic about which you're an expert.

The father of one of my friends died last week in hospital after he contracted corona. He was old, he had some preexisting medical conditions, but he died because of the new virus.
And my friend wasn't even able to say goodbye, as patients are in complete isolation in hospital. They just had some phone calls, that's it.
The vast majority of people survive, but it doesn't mean we can ignore the problem and pretend the virus won't affect our lives. Everyone has an uncle, a grandparent, a father who could be in serious danger if it contracts the virus. If you get it, somebody else in the family will. That's why people should avoid crowded places and work from home if possible.
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I'd get they'll postpone it for 3 months or do it remotely.

They can't postpone WWDC. Developers need to work on the beta as soon as possible, so if iOS 14 is scheduled for September, beta needs to be distributed in June. They could delay it for a couple of weeks, but it wouldn't make a huge difference as far as the virus is concerned.
They'll do it online only
 
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lol. People are so soft. Just go to work. If you get sick, you get sick. That's why our bodies have immune systems.
Don’t you love how some people show their lack of knowledge.
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My high school son just told me that they are talking about closing schools for 3 weeks of it starts showing up in CT
 
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This all seems over-hyped to me. Good rule of thumb is the very young, elderly and those with compromised immune systems may want to avoid area with large crowds.
Everyone should continue going about your business being mindful to wash your hands with soap and water frequently and avoid touching your face. If you are feeling unwell... then definitely stay home.
It’s not that simple.

People who aren’t at a high risk of serious complications from the disease can carry the disease before they know they have it and infect people who aren’t as well off, no crowds necessary.
 
It’s not that simple.

People who aren’t at a high risk of serious complications from the disease can carry the disease before they know they have it and infect people who aren’t as well off, no crowds necessary.
I don’t need a lecture, I’m a microbiologist, I understand how this works. People with pre-existing conditions are still much more likely to die from the flu. We can’t shut down society for this. There’s a lot of fear mongering and over hyped news out there at the moment.
 
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I’m a microbiologist, I understand how this works.
Well then you should understand why it's important to contain an infectious disease before the angle of the growth curve makes a hard turn for the vertical axis.

We can’t shut down society for this. There’s a lot of fear mongering and over hyped news out there at the moment.

I think the idea is to have all our ducks in a row precisely so that we DON'T have to shut down society to get an outbreak under control as China had to. If this hits, it'll be a economic Hurricane Katrina. A lot of the measures being taken are explicitly for the purpose of buying time and figuring out how to deal with this.

The next month or two could be rough. Society may have to continue in a partially shut down mode. We'll figure this out and figure out exactly what truly needs to be limited and what is a low enough risk that life can get back to almost normal one step at a time. The WHO just released guidance that they still believe this can be contained and managed. That's the best news I've heard in a while on this, but it's contingent upon that our governments are able to get their people to take this seriously and enact best practices that will limit the chance of transmission.

Just going back to work and pretending like there's nothing out of the ordinary? That's what Wuhan tried. We've already seen that movie. We don't want to see the live action version of it.
 
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I don’t need a lecture, I’m a microbiologist, I understand how this works. People with pre-existing conditions are still much more likely to die from the flu. We can’t shut down society for this. There’s a lot of fear mongering and over hyped news out there at the moment.
Did I say anything that wasn’t correct? Most of what I know about this situation I’ve learned from epidemiologists — not journalists, not politicians. I’m a meteorologist, and on my own I’d have no clue what I’m talking about other than being able to observe the trends in publicly available data, given a side interest in statistics. My line of work pretty much requires that separating wheat from chaff is second nature to me, which is why I avoid secondary (or tertiary) sources. That’s why, where I can, in this case I defer to epidemiologists, who are basically the best available source for information on how virus outbreaks work. Thank goodness the internet makes it easy to find thoughts from credentialed epidemiologists.

While your being a microbiologist instead of an epidemiologist doesn’t mean that you can bring no valuable input to a conversation, please do understand that your messaging here is pretty dissonant compared to many epidemiologists, who say that this is serious. They are also careful to note that nothing here is worthy of panic and containment can still work; it’s just way harder now that it’s spread as far as it has. There’s a middle ground between “run and buy up all the toilet paper and Purell,” and “this is no worse than the flu,” and as of now that middle ground appears to be the consensus among people way smarter than me to make such judgments. That’s what I’m rolling with.

None of this changes that the virus can spread asymptomatically and that telling high-risk populations to stay away from crowds simply isn’t enough. People who regularly come in close contact with high-risk populations — which is a lot of people — need to as well, or else they’re putting more than just themselves at risk. That’s all I was saying.

Besides, no one’s proposing “[shutting] down society” and no one (other than China) is doing that. There are difficult but reasonable precautions that can be taken by governments, companies, and institutions — and individuals, of course — to reduce the risk of widespread community transmission while keeping things as normal as possible. That’s what they’re doing. Ideally, these steps work, COVID-19 doesn’t become any worse than it needs to be, and we can mostly forget about it fairly soon, but that’s simply not the reality right now. Rapid and widespread transmission is occurring and accelerating globally right now. This is especially true considering that the number of publicly reported, confirmed cases is likely significantly lower than the real number, if past outbreaks are prologue here, due to a focus on testing worse cases over mild cases or possible asymptomatic exposures.

Anyway, pardon the nuance, believe what you want, I guess.
 
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Not only that but I read somewhere online that you may not gain immunity after you recover and could potentially get reinfected.

The WHO recently commented on that. They had a panel of 25 international experts weigh in on that and they think the cases where someone got reinfected wasn't actually what it appeared. It was instead that they were still infected and were inappropriately discharged because the test wasn't properly administered.

They do believe that you have immunity after you've recovered, but they don't know permanent the immunity is.
 
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I don’t need a lecture, I’m a microbiologist, I understand how this works. People with pre-existing conditions are still much more likely to die from the flu. We can’t shut down society for this. There’s a lot of fear mongering and over hyped news out there at the moment.

But you're not a epidemiologist which would mean your thoughts on infectious disease modeling scenarios would be quite questionable.

The general point of not ignoring this and 'going about our business like usual' is to slow the rate of infection and not overrun hospitals which exacerbates the problem greatly.
 
... using the term "MSM" is a nonsensical use of terminology to try and compartmentalize media you don't agree with.
No, the MSM is "MainStream Media". We all know who that is, and some of us are of the strong opinion that it's the same people who have been lying to us for years, by way of omissions, misrepresentations, or outright lying. AKA "fake". So you should bear in mind that many of us don't trust the MSM. Because fake.
More effective since there's no scientific cure for it yet.
And there probably won't be for a long time yet.
Since when is attempting to slow down the spread of the virus considered soft? But yea, you're such a tough guy. What an absolute b@d @$$ you are.
Okay, can everybody stop virtue signalling? The poster of that original blurb is either a fool, a jerk, or merely somebody who tried to be humorous and failed miserably. Hell, for all we know, he could be some 12 year old idiot kid who's failing biology in school. My point is, he isn't the first and won't be the last to make a dumb comment on the Internet. But here we are on page 4 of this thread and people are STILL going on a bit overdramatically.
I don’t need a lecture, I’m a microbiologist, I understand how this works. People with pre-existing conditions are still much more likely to die from the flu. We can’t shut down society for this. There’s a lot of fear mongering and over hyped news out there at the moment.
You're right. We still need to have food and medicine manufactured. Water, wastewater, solid waste, and electrical services will need to be continued. And toilet paper delivered. Some things cannot be allowed to stop or you're right, we'll have something worse than CV.
The WHO recently commented on that. They had a panel of 25 international experts weigh in on that and they think the cases where someone got reinfected wasn't actually what it appeared. It was instead that they were still infected and were inappropriately discharged because the test wasn't properly administered.

They do believe that you have immunity after you've recovered, but they don't know permanent the immunity is.
We still don't know nearly enough about this virus and its behavior or lifecycle. I read an article that says that the test kit is very complex and if not performed correctly, can result in a lot of failed tests.
But you're not a epidemiologist which would mean your thoughts on infectious disease modeling scenarios would be quite questionable.

The general point of not ignoring this and 'going about our business like usual' is to slow the rate of infection and not overrun hospitals which exacerbates the problem greatly.
You're not wrong in your assessment, but we need to wait until we learn more about this virus before we start tearing each other down for questionable qualifications.
 
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No, the MSM is "MainStream Media". We all know who that is, and some of us are of the strong opinion that it's the same people who have been lying to us for years, by way of omissions, misrepresentations, or outright lying. AKA "fake". So you should bear in mind that many of us don't trust the MSM. Because fake.

Yeah, I know what you mean. And, again, anyone who uses the term “mainstream media” is using that term because they don’t like the truth, so they want to invent their own.

Just like they are trying to invent the truth about Covid-19, and ignoring the fact that it is more than twice as contagious as a typical strain of flu, is at least as lethal, if not more so, and there is no vaccine.
 
Yeah, I know what you mean. And, again, anyone who uses the term “mainstream media” is using that term because they don’t like the truth, so they want to invent their own.

Just like they are trying to invent the truth about Covid-19, and ignoring the fact that it is more than twice as contagious as a typical strain of flu, is at least as lethal, if not more so, and there is no vaccine.
You're right about all that. It's just as lethal and there is no vaccine. A vaccine will take a lot of time to create, test, manufacture, and distribute. And there will always be a segment of the population who will not get it, for whatever reason. Vaccinations are very controversial these days, to say the least, so even if one is made avaialable for Covid 19, there's no guarantee that everybody who NEEDS it will receive it. Some will choose to not get it. What will we do about that? There is no way to get it to everybody in the world. How will we deal with that?

But worse than the virus is our sorry state of factual news reporting. The MSM has created a HUGE trust deficit over the course of the last 30+ years. And now it is coming to a head. I cut out all cable and satellite media years ago because I wasn't getting the truth from the MSM back then, and could no longer support them by paying my DirecTV bill. All this, during a time when each of us has never needed honest reporting more than we do now.

The trust issue has been irreparably broken for me and millions of others, so I was forced to end my relationship with the MSM years ago and stop funding them. I'm always looking for trustworthy and fair reporting that isn't skewed. There are some good signs, but they're not MSM, and so I now seek them out individually.

One thing's for sure. The current sorry state of media didn't happen overnight. It's been brewing for decades now, and the damage done is so bad that it won't be repaired overnight either; and maybe not even within our lifetimes. This is serious. In the meantime, I do what I can to get good, actionable information, OUTSIDE of the MSM.
 
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AKA "fake". So you should bear in mind that many of us don't trust the MSM. Because fake.

Here's some slightly less fake news from other countries then. Just watch the first minute of the following segments.

Canadian Broadcast Corporation:

South China Morning Post (Hong Kong):

CGTN (Chinese State Media):

So if you want to know why people are sounding the alarms, there you go. That's no flu. This is what happens when you let a new disease go unchecked.

I'm with you that we can't let everything stop because of this virus, but that's actually the whole point of why major events are being canceled and special precautions are being enacted. It's not to stop everything and hide in our bunkers. It's to cut off opportunities for a mass infection event to buy us more time to come up with a response and testing.

Just puttiing on a brave face and carrying on has already been tried. It didn't work so well.

On Dec 31st, the Chinese government released a statement that they observed a few dozen cases of a mystery pneumonia, but everything was fine and the disease was not contagious. Three weeks later, Wuhan, a city that is larger than some US states was on lockdown and most of China was asked to self-quarantine. The entire Chinese economy and the world's supply chain was paralyzed.

If you think people buying too much toilet paper is paralysis, you won't like the encore.
 
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There’s a lot of misinformation and fearmongering going on. Asymptomatic transmission is a myth. Re-infection is a myth. These things have been thoroughly debunked weeks ago. Surprise, there is some level of incompetence in the medical fields; ever hear of malpractice insurance? Mistakes are going to happen, but those are human errors not a super virus doing crazy things. The death rate is much lower than the numbers being thrown around when you consider most people who get the disease don’t get sick enough to require hospitalization.

I do think it’s ridiculous that more businesses don’t allow people to work from home more. That should be standard procedure not some emergency measure, especially in the tech industry. I don’t think such measures will do much when it comes to coronavirus though, COVID-19 or others.

But for those in a panic, I’ll just point out that Wuhan is a metro area of over 19 million people. The population density there is higher than really anything people outside of China can comprehend. Compare that number to the the infection numbers and death numbers. I know, I know, China’s numbers can’t be trusted, sure. But unless you think China has somehow covered up the deaths of 19 million people without anyone noticing, I think it’s fair to say the R0 value (infection rate), or the death rate, or both, have been wildly overestimated by the media, and yes, dare I say it, the mainstream media.

Remind me, when was the last time the media got any science story right? I can literally think of not a single time there weren’t glaring errors in their reporting on any science-related story. They hype everything, and their accuracy on the details is poor. Food for thought.

Some of you may recall how China was deeply criticized for their slow response. They basically did nothing, ignored COVID-19 for over a month, before finally doing some PR to reassure everyone they were finally responding (spraying the streets was pure theater, and their quarantine measures at that point was not really going to do anything since the virus was already out). Despite the sheer incompetence of the Chinese medical community at the start of the outbreak, how many people died in China? It isn’t millions. It isn’t even millions who have gotten sick. Anyone telling you that 40, 60, or even 70 percent of the world will get the virus isn’t looking at the actual numbers.

COVID-19 is not more infectious than the flu. The WHO said that just a few days ago. Anyone looking at the numbers can see that for themselves. The WHO also reiterated this week that there are no cases of asymptomatic transmission. There are surely people who have gotten the virus but aren’t sick yet, but they aren’t spreading the disease.

No, the world isn’t ending.

COVID-19 is serious. So is the flu. So is lots of diseases going around. People with weak immune systems are always going to be at greater risk in society, and they now have one more thing to worry about, but they’ve been having to worry about lots of things already. Old people? Their biggest risk is still falling down. Young people, your biggest risk is still car accidents, so drive safe, and if you have the option of working from home instead of commuting, do that, and avoid a highway accident. People of all ages should be eating a better diet, too, to avoid heart attacks and diabetes.

There are plenty of risks in life. Managing them effectively means first putting them in perspective. Over two million people die each year at their workplaces, most through accidents, and that’s more than three times the number of people who die from the flu each year.
 
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their quarantine measures at that point was not really going to do anything since the virus was already out).

That is not true. A contagious disease doesn't just burn itself out on its own in a place with the population density of Wuhan.

China established a police state dragnet to isolate anyone who might have symptoms and then deployed over 9000 epidemiologists to identify everyone who may have been in contact with someone who tested positive. They also setup checkpoints to track the movements of people who had permission to leave their homes and made them show QR codes to verify their identities and the places they've been.

They established draconian population control measures to track down every single person they were interested in so they could bring them in for testing and if they tested positive, the cycle began again with that person until they had everyone they were interested in.

The WHO does actually believe that it can be transmitted before symptoms emerge, but they don't think it's a major contributor to transmission. They also think there may be some cases that are truly asymptomatic, but they're less than 2% of the cases. In the Feburary 28th report, they said this:

Asymptomatic infection has been reported, but the majority of the relatively rare cases who are asymptomatic on the date of identification/report went on to develop disease. The proportion of truly asymptomatic infections is unclear but appears to be relatively rare and does not appear to be a major driver of transmission.

I don't think we're going to end up like Wuhan. Our population density is much lower so we have that as an advantage. Ending up like Italy would be bad enough. The economic damage of canceling some major events will pale in comparison to having to declare lockdown.

Even if we don't end up with mass chaos, the pain created by an outbreak will range well beyond the disease itself. If hospital beds fill up, other preventable deaths may happen because they can't get care. Ambulance services will get paralyzed.

People were dying in Wuhan before they could get to the hospital for non Covid19 reasons. Why? They already didn't have enough ambulances, but the shortage was made worse by the need to treat every patient as contagious so it took an hour to sanitize the ambulance and the crew before they could deploy again.

The WHO did have some less gloomy news lately too though. They thought containment was still possible, but only if there was urgent action and that's what this is about. Strangling that thing before it can get far.
 
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Stop spreading fake news like this.. what you don’t know, you don’t now, suggestions are NO FACTS!

I’m not “spreading” anything, I’m quoting a report I read on a story published via Apple News on my iPhone.

If you want to take a wee hissy fit, go and take one at Apple for pushing the story onto millions of their devices.

Also, have you responded to every other post on this thread that’s quoting headlines and stories, or did you mistake me for a soft touch you could speak down to?
 
I’m not “spreading” anything, I’m quoting a report I read on a story published via Apple News on my iPhone.

If you want to take a wee hissy fit, go and take one at Apple for pushing the story onto millions of their devices.

Also, have you responded to every other post on this thread that’s quoting headlines and stories, or did you mistake me for a soft touch you could speak down to?
We all need to relax and be logical. And the first step just might be to remove Apple News from our devices, or at least disable it for a few weeks just to be sure they ain't smoking anything when deciding which articles to aggregate. There's a lot of hype coming from the news outlets via Apple News...and a lot of those are MSM.
 
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I’m not “spreading” anything, I’m quoting a report I read on a story published via Apple News on my iPhone.

If you want to take a wee hissy fit, go and take one at Apple for pushing the story onto millions of their devices.

Also, have you responded to every other post on this thread that’s quoting headlines and stories, or did you mistake me for a soft touch you could speak down to?

Nothing personal; You present no verifiable source, science, facts or otherwise for your statement, therefor FAKE.Stop repeating (spreading) everything you (say you) read (and with that infuse more fear).

Present verifiable facts (with a trusted source) and I will retract my statements. For true information I suggest not apple ‘news’ not metro but cdc or who, your local hospital or a medical practitioner.

and no, a fortune teller does NOT count.
 
Italy had 133 deaths in one day........."Yeah just like the flu.....":rolleyes:
 
Italy had 133 deaths in one day........."Yeah just like the flu.....":rolleyes:
Hold it, let's run some really rough numbers. I'll state some assumptions, feel free to question them:

(US 2018 Flu Deaths) / (US Population) = 80,000 / 320,000,000 = 0.025 %
(Italian population) * (US annual flu death rate) = (60,000,000) * 0.025% = 15,000
Big assumption: Flu season ~= 4 months ~= 120 days
Therefore, daily Italian flu deaths during flu season = 15,000 / 120 = 125

125 "back of the envelope" flu deaths and 133 "real news" COVID-19 deaths are pretty comparable. (If indeed my assumptions are near-correct, and I'm not having MSNBC calculate my math…)
 
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