Apple Executive Greg Joswiak Dismisses Planned Obsolescence as 'Craziest Thinking in the World'

[chelsel]

"Apple says the keyboard appears up to 50 percent faster, apps launch up to twice as fast under heavy load, and the camera opens up to 70 percent faster from the lock screen"

50 percent faster than what? iOS 11, or when the device was brand new?

 

[bbednarz]

Not everybody bought on the day of HW-release. So while it might be the year-x model, it might actually be manufactured at year-x+y

My 2014 MacBook was bought in 2015 after the early 2015 came out. I wont be complaining in 2024 when support is dropped... 8-9 years of support is quite a bit imo.

 

[petsounds]

Yeah, it'd be nice if my 2008 Mac Pro could run High Sierra or Mojave, but it still runs on El Cap and it just got an iTunes, Safari, and security update. So even when they cut off Macs from OS updates, they continue to support them for a long time. I'm okay with that.

 

[autrefois]

Your line of thinking doesn't make sense. People want smaller, thinner devices[...] Notebooks go the same way. You want thin, fast and light, you have to work to get most of the stuff on one board, not spread throughout.

Do you have a source that says that most Macbook Pro users continue to want smaller, slimmer devices? Maybe 5-10 years ago, yes. But anecdotally I haven't heard in a long time in person someone saying they wish their Mac were thinner. And on MR, the top complaints seem to be everything being glued together, non-upgradable, and not as sturdy as before (keyboard, etc.). Unless you have seen something that says people want their laptops even thinner, I don't see the benefits of making things a tiny bit smaller at the cost of no longer letting it be serviceable and upgradable.

Look at TVs, there are very few user serviceable parts these days on them and people aren't complaining about that.

I'd like to hope that I can do more with a Mac than I can with a TV. For decades with computers, there has been an expectation that users and repair shops can get at, repair, and often update their hardware. Isn't one of the main ideas of planned obsolescence making something so it has to be replaced? Isn't changing machines from being easily serviceable and upgradeable, to making it impossible or difficult enough to do that most people just replace the machine, a form of planned obsolescence?

There's only so much space to fit stuff and I'd rather take performance over a slower system that is user serviceable.

Again, is there a source that you can give that shows that performance is slower on less thin, more user-serviceable machines? It's fine to have a difference of opinion of course, I just don't get your reasoning.

 

[Bacillus]

"Apple says the keyboard appears up to 50 percent faster, apps launch up to twice as fast under heavy load, and the camera opens up to 70 percent faster from the lock screen"
50 percent faster than what? iOS 11, or when the device was brand new?

50% faster than your iOS11 iPhone throttled by unplanned obsolescense - to enhance it's natural aging

 

[Defthand]

Think about it for a min, you want iPhone 5 to run iOS 11 as fast as iPhone X ?

No. That’s not my expectation. However, I do want my hypothetical iPhone 5 to run as fast as it is capable of rather let Apple cripple it with OS upgrades designed for the latest hardware, or covertly throttling the CPU to preserve battery power rather than encourage me to replace the battery.

its not possible unless Apple has different iOS softwares for each phone model.

Bingo! That’s a great suggestion, and totally do-able. And it wouldn’t have to be for each model. Every other generation of CPU would be satisfactory.

 

[nt5672]

iOS: We care about your older devices.

MacOS: Please throw away your MacBook (Late 2009), MacBook (Mid 2010), MacBook Pro (Mid 2010), MacBook Pro (Early 2011), MacBook Pro (Late 2011), iMac (Late 2009), iMac (Mid 2010), iMac (Mid 2011), Mac mini (Mid 2010), or Mac mini (Mid 2011).

What a great company...

(Sorry for the repost, but this is definitely relevant here.)

Oh and we stop signing iOS releases As quickly as possible because we care about your old devices.

 

[blackcrayon]

if planned obsolescence was not a thing why would they stop signing older os's? when the newer ones slow down your phone?

What about when newer ones speed up your phone? Did that segment of the iOS team miss the Planned Obsolescence Memo for that month?

There are specific new features in iOS 12 for both faster performance and lower app memory usage. Sounds downright diabolical, right?

 

[Bacillus]

Your line of thinking doesn't make sense. People want smaller, thinner devices and part of doing that is making things as compact as possible. Look at TVs, there are very few user serviceable parts these days on them and people aren't complaining about that. Notebooks go the same way. You want thin, fast and light, you have to work to get most of the stuff on one board, not spread throughout.
There's only so much space to fit stuff and I'd rather take performance over a slower system that is user serviceable.

Your mind seems to have become Jonified in a serious manner

 

[Lennyvalentin]

"If we only wanted you to buy new hardware, we would only have updates that support like six percent of our users," he joked.

Heh, well, when one carefully phrases it that way, yes, he does have a point - as was the intent, no doubt - but there's also no doubt whatsoever that Apple totally shot down first-gen Apple Watches performance and battery-wise. I lost 15-25% battery capacity OVERNIGHT when I updated to wOS 4 last autumn and a lot of performance as well.

It's hard to quantify how much was lost exactly, but things that used to be if not exactly 100% fluid so at least reasonably smooth are now a juddering mess. Like, scrolling the dock, for example. The app "cards" shudder and bob awkwardly when moving slowly, so especially when one wants to flip just one or two cards up or down. There's quite a bit of lag now between the crown turning and cards moving, so often the cards want to judder and shift a bit more after you stop turning the crown, making it difficult to stop the cards where you expect them to stop, so to speak.

So thanks to performance being (artificially) so much worse in wOS 4.x, we now don't get 5.x either. So tell me more about that no-planned-obsolescence, please...

 

[blacktape242]

ill say anything for another cookie...

 

[vpro]

They should have updates for older and current units right? If you have units from 2010 to 2016 here are the updates that improves your device without rendering it useless, laggy and glitchy. Hence the focus isn’t on speed and extra features because they are really helping people with no desire to upgrade to newer devices, to keep being able to use their perfectly good machines? While if your units are 2016 to current, there are your updates to boost speed, performance and battery life.

I think people are just not aware enough or too many just want the latest & greatest, tempted by the ads and specs, when really - my iPhone 4S is still running iOS 7 perfectly, my batter still lasts a day and a half and up to 28 days on standby ? I don’t need a new phone, they can pay me to have a new phone though

For a statement like planned obsolescence is just mummbo jumbo - shows that the individual there hasn’t read anything about the subject and is in complete denial of how real it is

Love you all !
- Vi An MUSIC

 

[Dave245]

Not to sound snarky, but how has the hardware radically changed in seven years that makes it incapable of having the latest OS abilities? Could the newest abilities have been achieved with older chips? Or is it because Apple customized—and limited— those abilities for the newer chips?

It’s nothing new every year they drop a certain year/model, new features are added and it makes it more difficult. These Mac’s have been supported for the past 7 years or so, I personally think that’s good.

I have a 2011 MacBook Pro, I’m not in the slightest bit mad at Apple for not supporting it with the new OS i understand that as technology moves forward and the OS gets more advanced it won’t be possible to allow the new OS and it’s features to run on it, there is a simple answer I will buy a new MacBook, I’m due an upgrade anyway.

My point is that 7 years is a very good, some are even beyond that just look at the 2009 Mac’s!

 

[647156]

MacOS: Please throw away your MacBook (Late 2009), MacBook (Mid 2010), MacBook Pro (Mid 2010), MacBook Pro (Early 2011), MacBook Pro (Late 2011), iMac (Late 2009), iMac (Mid 2010), iMac (Mid 2011), Mac mini (Mid 2010), or Mac mini (Mid 2011).

Original "Early 2006" Intel iMac (the very first Intel Mac that you could buy) can still run the latest OS perfectly fine, just not one made by its manufacturer who believes far newer computers are "obsolete"

 

[nt5672]

And in the phone world, they’re right. But it’s not because companies are evil and slow them down on purpose.

But they do and Apple has even admitted they slow the phone down when the battery deteriorates or when the load kicks up. If they were not trying to to everyone to buy a new phone, then they would have different versions with bigger batteries or replaceable batteries.

By not designing in replaceable batteries or replaceable SSDs Apple is saying to just throw it away and buy new when these parts wear out. Other parts of the phone don't wear out nearly as quick. This is exactly how we know. I'll give them credit, Apple is sneaky about how they plan obsolescence, but that does not mean that its not an Apple strategy.

 

[JohnnyW2K1]

So, you’re expecting older devices not to slow down naturally as technology progresses? That doesn’t really make any sense. Also, along with the software updates includes security patches. It would be behoove the user to upgrade if they have the availability to do so to protect their information from concerns like Spectre and Meltdown.

Apple are the ones who decide what features older devices get. If they know the new features will slow the older phones down, don't include them with the security updates. They have total control of what gets implemented and how.

 

[G4DPII]

Oh horse manure. Your pre-2012 Macs will run just fine for many years to come, just not on Mojave. Ever try running Windows 10 on a six or seven year old PC? I thought not. Six years is more than enough time for an operating system to continue support for legacy hardware. The hardware has advanced, the frameworks have advanced, and the more than six year old hardware is not up to the task of running next year’s macOS. What’s the problem here?

More rubbish, All this stuff about W10 running badly on old hardware. It doesn't, it runs faster than Apples OS on Apple Hardware. W10 runs as fast on an 08 Mac Pro, faster than any Mac release ever has.

 

[SlyBriFry]

"Crazy" as in... it's CRAZY how much money they make from this strategy.

 

[44267547]

Apple are the ones who decide what features older devices get. If they know the new features will slow the older phones down, don't include them with the security updates. They have total control of what gets implemented and how.

Then, at what point do you finally say older tech eventually slows down superseded by something newer. That’s really the main point. Regardless, you can’t ask Apple to separate certain features because it *allegedly* slows down a phone. I’m not following your logic here at all. For the Record, what other smart phone manufacturer provides five years of software updates considering android is approximately two.

 

[I7guy]

I am talking about my mom's opinion. She has no knowledge of this stuff. The first thing I heard when I updated hers from 10.3.3 to 11 was it was slow. Admittedly she doesn't complain about it on 11.4 but she was happier with 10.

I’m discussing my impressions. You’re savvy enough to know that a rogue app could also cause an issue.

 

[QCassidy352]

There's a lot of entitlement in this thread. You have to realize that, at the end of the day, Apple is a business. They don't charge for the OS (and yes, they could do that in the alternative but have decided not to), so sooner or later, they do have to sell you new hardware.

Suggestions like "they should develop processor-specific versions of the latest OS for my 5 year old device" isn't realistic or reasonable. If you've gotten 5 years out of your device, and it's been supported the whole time with free updates to the latest OS, you're doing pretty well, IMO.

And after that, guess what? It doesn't stop working. You can keep right on running HS on your 2011 iMac or iOS 9 on your iPhone 4s. But no, you don't necessarily get all of the newest features (which is, frankly, no huge loss given the tiny year-over-year changes we're seeing these days).

The one area I'd like to see them improve in is security updates. I'd really like to see them go back a couple of iOS versions with security updates like they do on the Mac side.

 

[BiscottiGelato]

Yes, I agree. Though I don't own an older Mac device (that is it's a 2014 model, so seems like Apple doesn't see it as old yet), but I concur, old is relative. It's the status quo for manufacturers in just about every industry to push for purchasing the latest model versus making an older model still run like new. Used to be we were proud when you had a washing machine or car that was 20+ years old, so I find it strange that business model isn't the goal in the IT industry. And please don't tell me that in order to advance technologically you must go in the direction of designed obsolescence, I don't by that. Real innovation and ingenuity would be the opposite. Of course, what I'm suggesting would be a revolution today in the business world (impacting jobs, and in particular salaries).

Um, your washing machines or car doesn't get an update the day it goes out of the factory. Nobody's stopping you from keep using the iPhone 1. Grow up, contribute to society and stop being an entitled parasite. Nobody owes you anything.

 

[Michael Goff]

But they do and Apple has even admitted they slow the phone down when the battery deteriorates or when the load kicks up. If they were not trying to to everyone to buy a new phone, then they would have different versions with bigger batteries or replaceable batteries.

By not designing in replaceable batteries or replaceable SSDs Apple is saying to just throw it away and buy new when these parts wear out. Other parts of the phone don't wear out nearly as quick. This is exactly how we know. I'll give them credit, Apple is sneaky about how they plan obsolescence, but that does not mean that its not an Apple strategy.

They don’t have user replaceable batteries for design sake.

 

[mi7chy]

What do you expect other than denial? Do you actually think he'll admit the truth that devices have had bare minimal specs with no future proofing like DRAM, storage, etc. to force more frequent upgrades? Even battery capacity is tiny relative to rest of industry so it goes through charge cycles faster and deteriorate faster.

 

[Ries]

If people are still using 2011 MBPs, it's time for an upgrade. 2018 performance and specs are calling.

Like 16GB RAM, check my 2011 got that. SSD? The one in my 2011 is plenty fast. The CPU + iGPU, like only 33% faster vs 2018, hardly going to make a difference since the 2012 model is fine and supported. The only reason the 2011 model got dropped is the iGPU is missing a/some functions they are using for metal. They could properly code those missing functions using slower pathways but couldn't be bothered to.

It's not like windows 10 runs on old systems, ohhh, wait it does.

https://www.zdnet.com/article/yes-windows-10-runs-great-on-old-hardware/

Microsoft is able to run on anything in the last decade, but somehow Apple can't even manage their own platforms with all the profits. I can only hope the next MacBook Pro is not like those 2016/2017 abominations, the only thing that would make me buy those is my current one dying and I would properly look for a cheap used 2015 first.