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Apple Expected to Adopt Keyboard With Scissor Mechanism for Upcoming 16-inch MacBook Pro
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The only way USB-C gets widespread adoption is for a company such as Apple, who has the reputation of outfitting its computers with forward thinking technology, to embrace it in ways that PC OEMs cannot or will not.
It’s only been in the past 2-3 years that the VGA port has started becoming less and less prevalent on Windows laptops, when it is well
past it’s prime and should have been removed years ago. Modern, decent LCD displays don’t even have VGA ports anymore...I’m not saying there shouldn’t be a solution for those that need a VGA port, but it shouldn’t be the norm and it shouldn’t be easy. Otherwise, VGA will never die and technology progresses slower than it already does.
The masses are never going to be ready for any kind of wholesale change. At the point USB was released, people resisted it mightily and its shortcomings were highlighted in the press constantly, but it was time for the serial and parallel port to go away.
USB-A isn’t going away tomorrow, regardless, but PC OEMs are never going to be in the vanguard of advancing the technology because competition and margins in the PC market value homogeneity and penalize those who try to push boundaries. It’s the inertia of the PC market that Apple ignores as it has to differentiate as much as is reasonably possible while not straying too far from what will actually sell in the marketplace.
I have plenty of USB peripherals, most without captive cables, so I simply found high quality USB-C cables and replaced the older cables on the items I use the most. It cost me about $30. That is one route and the other is to buy a USB-A hub and simply replace the Type-A cable with a USB-C to USB 3.0 Type B cable and be done.
You’re not losing any ports on a 2016-2019 MacBook Pro versus your MacBook Air, as it only has two Type-A ports, so I have never understood why this is used as an argument against Apple going all USB-C? Those USB devices you have don’t simply become obsolete because of a different shaped port, so I am not understanding why you believe that you’re at an advantage with your current setup or at a disadvantage with a newer setup?
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The 15” model really cannot go any smaller...the bezels aren’t that thick and the keys on the keyboard are too close together as it is. One of the main selling points of the current 15” is its very good sound which would suffer in trying to shrink the footprint. It would also mean a smaller battery and an even denser motherboard, which might mean a more expensive computer if Apple has less space for NAND, DRAM and VRAM chips and need to use less, but higher capacity memory and storage. Going thicker doesn’t solve these problems beyond battery capacity. It would certainly preclude SO-DIMM slots and removable storage, not that those were likely, anyways.
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Ok, I see. It is Apple who ditched optical drive, who embraced USB port, now they are trying to do the same to embrace USB-C. I don’t know the full history here but I feel that is less relevant for the switch we have now.
PC manufacturers will switch to a different port, but not all-in like Apple. PC laptops often include a mix of USB-A and USB-C port as the solution, to allow more people to use their USB devices right out of the box. Apple can do so partly because their Mac market share is very small. Switching ports only hurt Mac users, whether short term or long term. As for the VGA port, Sony has released a new thin laptop with VGA and Ethernet port, alongside USB-A and USB-C port. Great for people who often need to deal with a wide range of devices and projectors, sometimes even monitors.
It looks like I don’t lose any port on 2016-2019 MacBook Pro, but I do, since I can no longer plug my existing USB hard drive to new MacBook Pro out of the box. Yes, I can search for new cables. Yes, those hard drives don’t use captive cables so replacing them is not a problem. But, new MacBook Pro requires me to buy dongles or USB hubs (or cables) to connect my device to it. As of now the only USB-C device I have is iPad Pro 2018. It’s not my best interest to buy a bunch of cables or USB hub just to suite a MacBook Pro. Plus, being touted as “pro” machine, does Apple expect people to only connect USB-C device to the MacBook Pro, but not SD card? Ethernet cable? Or even a HDMI cable? I don’t know how long it takes for other companies to have more USB ports on their computers after Apple includes it, but even the latest iMac has USB-A, USB-C, SD card slot and Ethernet port. I am fine for Apple not including HDMI port, maybe even Ethernet port. But including only USB-C port on MacBook Pro is not fun.
A side note. If I ever want to get new MacBook Pro, I won’t get those models with two ports. Far too few. Can’t transfer files between more than two hard drives and attach an external iTunes library.
How about they get rid of the bezels on the 13” for you, and they keep the 15” footprint for me?
I use a CalDigit Thunderbolt 3 Mini Dock with 2 DisplayPort, 1 GbE and a USB 3.0 port on it. A USB 3.0 Micro-B to USB-C costs $7 and I bought a few at the same time I purchased my MacBook Pro.
I don't buy a monitor if it doesn't have DisplayPort, finding that HDMI just breaks your heart after a while. I used a DP to HDMI for a 1080p projector hooked up to a 21.5” iMac. I have two cameras, one SD, the other CF, and I either hook it up directly or use the USB-C card reader I bought. Used the one in my 2015 a few times, but really don’t need the external reader either. Full size Ethernet requires a larger chassis and space on the logic board, for a port that most people really don’t need anymore, even Pros. Haven’t used it in 7 years. If I needed it full time, then maybe I need an iMac instead of a portable. Otherwise, but a Thunderbolt 3 Dock or a USB-C dongle.
Of course an iMac has all those ports, it’s stationary, I would expect that from a desk bound Mac, I don’t from a portable. If a portable is going to be my main machine, I always kit it up with what I need where I’m working to reduce the mess to a single cable. Just my 2¢.
Uhhh. I’m a huge fan of the design. I like the size, display, trackpad, SSD speed, and make heavy use of the Thunderbolt 3 ports.
The TouchBar is meh. As I said, I like it better than function keys but... function keys or TouchBar, it’s the least used part of the standard inputs. I hate the keyboard too. I don’t have to like every last micron on the machine to really like using it overall.
You are so wrong! MagSafe was and is still one of Apples best ideas! The idea here is to offer a USB-C plug adapter which then has the magnetic structure needed to mate with the cable. The important part is the case design needs to have the back two USB-C ports recessed so the adapter is then flush and has an onboard charging LED! Very easy to do without interfering with the function of the port. There is no standards issues here.
USB-A (USB 3.1) is a very necessary interface! Adding two is not an issue! We all want USB-C as well (4 ports).
An Ethernet port fits I don't know how you got the idea it doesn't. Besides, hate to tell you this is a PRO's system and we want more of what the CPU can offer. All of the current CPU's are thermally constrained! Hence a bigger case is needed to get the needed cooling. As such there will be more space not less!
Working Pro's like me are less concerned on how thick the case is! As long as its reasonable! If I'm doing a shoot with a model time is money! Do you have any idea how much an hours time is? WiFi is just too slow! We need Ethernet! Even my old 2012 MacBook Pro has Gigabit Ethernet! I would love to get 10 Gigabit Ethernet. As for power if its not active its not drawing power! And FYI it The Broadcom Ethernet interface uses less power than WiFi
So you've had tons of dust getting in though the SD slot have you? The air flow through the fan and heat sink is the real issue, this is a non-issue! SDXC standard is what we are talking about still uses the same design as the SD card.
I'll give you there are other storage devices like XQD & CFast but these are physically much larger and just can't be accommodated within the system as there just too big.
You clearly don't know how working photographers work. I've burnt out two 2013 & 2015 MacBook Pro retinas and my current 2015 is limping.
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There is no harm in innovating. However, repeating the same mistakes over and over again is worrisome.Apple innovation failed. Back to the proven tech
The working Pro photographers are the WE here! We've been neglected long enough! But there are others that also need the same things we do! Like coders & engineers.
The issue is pushing too far! The limits of both engineering & physics is what did in Apple. The butterfly key was not designed to get the usage the older scissor was able to. Note the common keys that are failing A, E O, R S, T and the shift and space bar. These are the most used keys. Engineering failure!
Going so thin was both an Engineering & physics failure. Intel was expected to have rolled out the cooler running CPU's which didn't happen! And it looks like it's at least two more years before the chips Apple needs will come out. If I was designing the 2016 systems I would have had a Plan B just in case! Apple didn't, and now we are likely seeing the Plan B case design rolled out in the 16.5" system.
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Love the design, love the size/thinness, the TrackPad could be a tad smaller, but not 2012-2015 smaller, display is great, SSD is wicked fast...I have a 2016 2.9GHz, but would like to move to a 2019.
I love the Touch Bar, but Apple’s implementation in macOS is inconsistent and they have put no real effort into showing how it can help with your workflow...the keyboard is not awful, but I just don’t enjoy long sessions typing on it...the keys are also too close together compared to the 2012-2015 and I think that is part of the problem as well as key travel. My biggest beef is the battery life, having that slim, svelte chassis exacts a price and, for me, it’s battery life.
It is clear that this chassis was really meant for Intel 10nm CPUs and when Intel hit the wall, Apple was already too far along to backtrack.
I hope this rumored 16” MBP doesn’t evolve too far backwards...
I'm a Pro and I use Ethernet quite a lot! The 16.5" MacBook Pro will be a thicker case so it will have the space for the Ethernet connection. Even thin systems like the current MacBook Pro's have Ethernet, look at the HP & Dell systems.
I need a portable system as I need a system at the shoot. I also have a Mac Pro when I'm not on the road.
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Things that I find nice to have on a premium pro laptop:
- Connect to a 5K monitor with a single cable.
- Connect to an eGPU or other PCIe devices.
- Connect to an SSD RAID array.
- Connect to multiple 10G Ethernet adapters.
- Connect to true docking stations.
- Connect to PCIe breakout boxes that give me access on my laptop to desktop hardware.
(Also nice to have would be a keyboard that doesn't suck, lol.)
I'm not even sure it's superior when considering purely as a charger:
- MagSafe is proprietary. It works on MacBooks and only MacBooks. I can't lend nor borrow a charger except with other MacBooks (and I need an adapter to switch between Magsafe 1 and 2). I can't charge my phone with it as adapters don't even exist (thanks for being proprietary!). Unless I'm using cheap knockoffs I have to use Apple chargers which are overpriced. I've found them to be one of the worst-made Apple products I've ever used and have replaced a lot of them since 2008. There are no non-Apple accessories that can provide charging. (I wanted a MagSafe extension for my Cinema Display for the longest time. No options because... proprietary.)
- If I really want a magnetic charging cable, I don't actually lose that option with USB-C. I can still have virtually the same functionality by using a charging cable with magnetic breakaway.
- Older MacBooks can use it.
- It's easier to plug in than USB-C.
- I get magnetic breakaway out of the box.
So you're worked up that I used the phrase "good riddance" to describe a propriety charging port that rates as "nice to have." Okay.
Good riddance, along with every other proprietary charging cable out there. Lightning cannot die off fast enough. I shed no tears for the old 30-pin connector either or the pre-MagSafe chargers.
Indeed, low key space is the major reason I cannot use Logitech keyboard folio well with iPad, alongside the difficult to setup design. Apple Smart Keyboard Folio does not have this problem. Sadly any MacBook from 2016 no longer has enough key space anymore.
I want the Touch Bar to go away unless Apple has some serious implementation to it. 3D Touch was very cool but Apple did nothing to promote it. Hope Touch Bar does just like 3D Touch.
Your logic is flawed! The YouTubers came to the same conclusion the butterfly keyboards just weren't holding up! The move they where pushing was going back to the older scissor keyboard which had a better track record!
Thats whats coming! A variation of the older scissor keyboard. Now did they mess that up? Only time will tell!
Why a smaller trackpad? I have seen a lot of people mention that but I have literally never found myself saying, "Wow, it's inconvenient to have a large trackpad." Maybe my dinky hands never bump it?
I'm hoping Catalina + Sidecar help the TouchBar get better use. I do like it okay if for no other reason than I can customize the buttons and I do like the volume and brightness sliders a lot. The biggest problem with its adoption and use is the fact that it's laptop only. I work in a dev shop and while all of us use laptops (mostly Macs), we spend a majority of time plugging it in at a desk for multiple monitors, better keyboards, mice, external drives, etc. I use my laptop as a laptop casually and when I'm traveling, but that's a minority of my use. For me, having a laptop is about a machine I can take with me and use wherever but not a machine I always use like that. I don't actually know anyone who does.
I hate the keyboard. It hurts my hands to use for a long time. I actually like the shape/spacing better than the "chicklet" design but I thought that was a step back from the pre-Unibody PowerBook/MacBook Pro keyboards. I use a mechanical keyboard most of the time that weights more than my laptop, lol. If I used this laptop as a laptop most of the time, I might have been one of those 2015 laptop holdouts. Either that or I'd carry a better bluetooth keyboard with me. (I'd be thrilled if the keyboard on this laptop was the same as the standalone Apple bluetooth keyboard.)
And yeah, the battery life has felt like a step back. My favorite machine prior to this was a 2012 MacBook Air and I got several more hours out of it.
I'm excited about the 16" machine. I'm hoping the new Mac Pro is a harbinger of things to come. As much as I like the 2016 redesign, I think we're at a point where we don't need thinness for the sake of thinness. I also think the glued in SSDs are pure BS and hypocrisy. Okay Apple, you care about the environment? How about you let me fix/upgrade a machine to extend its life by several years. These days, storage tends to be the main reason I have to upgrade or replace computers.
I'm hoping for:
- A better keyboard.
- Thin enough but let's avoid excessive throttling and mediocre battery life.
- An easy to swap out SSD.
- Maybe a new RAM standard that uses a smaller footprint?
No one is expecting the older MagSafe/MagSafe2 connector be used here! The idea is to create a New! MagSafe USB-C Plug which then has a MagSafe face on the other side that is flush mounted with a charging LED so you know the charger is working! Then a mating cable plugs in and then into the USB-C charger. This is not going to be compatible with the older MagSafe chargers.
The issue is mostly the case needs to be designed so the rear two USB-C ports (L&R) are recessed so the face is large enough to have the magnets.
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I found the larger trackpad palm rejection got in the way and the tracking was just not as good as the older unit. If they shrank it so its half as large than the older one I would be very happy! Again Apple went too far.
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I have a 2015 iPad Pro with the Smart Keyboard and its keyboard is probably the best one Apple currently makes, or at least neck and neck with the Magic Keyboard. But no backlighting and no shortcut keys like on the Logitech Slim Folio really work against it.
I hope the Touch Bar gets a bit of an overhaul in Catalina or 10.16.
It may have to be if the system requires over 100W power delivery at full load, which is not inconceivable given a larger display (more backlighting needed), maybe ProMotion and/ or higher brightness, more powerful GPU, the CPUs that already strain against their TDPs, larger/ faster cooling fans needed etc.
I never really understood Apple's compulsive fetish for adaptors. Many people have advocated for the return of Mag Safe but the USB C only response seems to be negative because of the fear of losing a port to the mag safe port. Apparently it is beyond Apple's ability to do both ports without sacrificing a usb C port. Then why does the king of the adaptors not make a mag safe adapter that inserts between the usb c port and the usb c cable? The mag safe people have their functionality, The usb C people still have their port and Apple gets to sale another dongle. Everybody is happy.
What fetish for adapters? They want everyone to use USB-C or wireless. They don’t want you using adapters.
If they don’t want people to use adapters, they should sue all companies making adapters for MacBook and don’t build any adapters themselves. Both are not true for what Apple is doing right now.
Way to completely take what i said out of context. He said Apple had an “adapter fetish.” That implies apple wants everyone to use adapters. They prefer it.
And my point was “no they don’t.”
Ok, this wording makes sense to me now.
I don’t think Apple care about people using adapters or not. It is completely up to user to strangle a MacBook Pro with three docks and a ton of “legacy” devices or use a MacBook Pro without connecting to anything but charging cable.
And, based on how Apple provides third party cable solutions, they want people move to use more USB-C devices rather than old ports (including not so old USB-A port). USB-C to USB-A cable is sold by Belkin for example.