Apple Explains Why It Terminated Epic's Latest Developer Account

[AstonSmith]

Ridiculous if I want to put my Xbox One disc into my PS5 and it doesn't play!

Rubbish comparison. Even though there are plenty of games that have been ported to different platforms simultaneously, that's not the point. This is about Apple preventing people from developing apps and running them on their devices without a kickback.

Does Microsoft or Sony prevent people developing games for their consoles? If yes, I don't agree with that either.

 

[Mrkevinfinnerty]

Is Phil Schiller head of anticompetitive behaviour at Apple now?

Not seen him announcing an iPhone for a long time yet something like this happens and they wheel him out like the final boss of monopolists.

 

[cupcakes2000]

Ridiculous if I want to put my Xbox One disc into my PS5 and it doesn't play!

It’s not even remotely the same thing.

 

[Ethosik]

Highly likely, unless the EU regulators jump in and decide against Apple, in which case it'll be Apple taking a lawsuit.

That would lead to a contradiction to a US ruling. Between US companies. Should the EU have that much power to overturn any US ruling? This is where it gets tricky. And could take years to battle out.

 

[AndiG]

EU to the rescue …

 

[Verified Whiskey]

Maybe don't badmouth the place where you want to sell your items? If I was selling something at Target I certainly wouldn't go out of my way to bad mouth them and have a shocked pikachu face when they remove my products from their stores.

This. Why don’t people understand that this is exactly what’s going on? Epic is trying to sell stuff on the APPLE storefront that APPLE created… For free

 

[turbineseaplane]

Is Phil Schiller head of anticompetitive behaviour at Apple now?

Not seen him announcing an iPhone for a long time yet something like this happens and they wheel him out like the final boss of monopolists.

Here…comes…Phil!

 

[turbineseaplane]

Epic is trying to sell stuff on the APPLE storefront that APPLE created…

No..they..are..not

Oh my goodness

 

[bsolar]

First and foremost, the DMA does not force business relationships and this notion that the DMA requires Apple to provide access to Epic (or anyone for that matter) without condition. I'm goin to need a citation for that.

The DMA does not force any business relationship, nor requires unconditional access to the platform, but imposes limitations on which measures a gatekeeper can put in place to control access.

From the DMA III.6.4, which regulates third-party applications and third-party application stores:

The gatekeeper shall not be prevented from taking, to the extent that they are strictly necessary and proportionate, measures to ensure that third-party software applications or software application stores do not endanger the integrity of the hardware or operating system provided by the gatekeeper, provided that such measures are duly justified by the gatekeeper.

This is IMHO the only applicable part Apple can invoke to justify preventing Epic from accessing the platform.

 

[cupcakes2000]

This. Why don’t people understand that this is exactly what’s going on? Epic is trying to sell stuff on the APPLE storefront that APPLE created… For free

I don’t care about epic, but that’s not what’s happening.

The issue is that Apple have complete and ultimate control of what can be developed for iOS, regardless.

 

[jakey rolling]

In court, Tim Sweeney testified he would have accepted a special deal if offered by Apple, similar to how Epic has negotiated such arrangements with Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo.

Saying they would accept a special deal is different than demanding a special deal.

If I were to ask you "If I give you $1000, would you accept it?" and you say "Yes, of course I would." that is quite a different thing that you saying to me "Give me $1000."

 

[jz0309]

That would lead to a contradiction to a US ruling. Between US companies. Should the EU have that much power to overturn any US ruling? This is where it gets tricky. And could take years to battle out.

I think the EU knows better than going down that route ...

 

[Mrkevinfinnerty]

Here…comes…Phil!

They send you that just before your developer account goes dark.

 

[cupcakes2000]

That would lead to a contradiction to a US ruling. Between US companies. Should the EU have that much power to overturn any US ruling? This is where it gets tricky. And could take years to battle out.

On EU soil? The EU has much more power than the US.

I think the EU knows better than going down that route ...

Why? They gonna send some drones over?

 

[GizmoDVD]

Rubbish comparison. Even though there are plenty of games that have been ported to different platforms simultaneously, that's not the point. This is about Apple preventing people from developing apps and running them on their devices without a kickback.

Does Microsoft or Sony prevent people developing games for their consoles? If yes, I don't agree with that either.

It's the exact point. I purchased a PS5 knowing full well it doesn't play Xbox One games. You purchased an iPhone and knew full well what you were getting - a closed eco-system exactly like that on the PS5/XBOX/SWITCH.

 

[ipedro]

Epic not only ignored the rules that they agreed to abide by in the App Store, but planted a trojan horse to get around those rules and then blew it up inside of Apple. They cannot be trusted. Go somewhere else.

I'd love for Apple to acquire EA and pour their resources into building up Apex Legends to stand up against Fortnite and leverage the Apple installed base to give them a real shot at dethroning Fortnite. Tim Sweeney is insufferable.

 

[turbineseaplane]

They send you that just before your developer account goes dark.

Hopefully one can pull it up on an OLED screen somewhere so the blacks are really black and the colors really pop…while you’re reading about the end of your development time with Apple

 

[psingh01]

Well, unlike installing a proper os via the bootloader, or installing an app from a place other than apples App Store, that suggestion actually WOULD break the security of the device.

But it is actual freedom to do with your device as you see fit. More app stores are just more walled gardens.

 

[cupcakes2000]

It's the exact point. I purchased a PS5 knowing full well it doesn't play Xbox One games. You purchased an iPhone and knew full well what you were getting - a closed eco-system exactly like that on the PS5/XBOX/SWITCH.

You’re conflating apps working across operating systems regardless of what they’re developed for, with what’s happening. It’s not the same thing.

 

[cupcakes2000]

But it is actual freedom to do with your device as you see fit. More app stores are just more walled gardens.

I agree, users should be allowed to install from anywhere.

 

[Ethosik]

Most games aren't published by Epic.

That’s not what this means. Epic won’t release the updated Unreal Engine to support anything Apple.

 

[jz0309]

Why? They gonna send some drones over?

nonsense. maybe read this post #545

 

[Abazigal]

Rubbish comparison. Even though there are plenty of games that have been ported to different platforms simultaneously, that's not the point. This is about Apple preventing people from developing apps and running them on their devices without a kickback.

Does Microsoft or Sony prevent people developing games for their consoles? If yes, I don't agree with that either.

Well, Nintendo does have a history of rejecting games on their switch platform, and is apparently even more opaque about it than Apple.

https://www.reddit.com/r/gamedev/comments/r2n21r

It's not clear what the exactly reason is either, just that Nintendo seems to also be performing some degree of QC on their end, which if you ask me, is even more subjective, because you are making a judgement call that said game is not good enough for the users of your platform.

 

[Ethosik]

He didn't block anything. Adobe did not have sufficient engineering to run on iPhone, especially considering how constrained the devices were compared to desktop/laptop Macs (which Flash also barely ran on).

We saw how useful the Flash support which eventually came to Android was.

Yes he did. Apple refused to let flash on iPhone. I followed this closely at the time. I had my own flash sites and was extremely disappointed with Apple.

Jobs: Why Apple banned Flash from the iPhone

In a rare open letter, Steve Jobs details technical arguments for Apple's refusal to let Flash on the iPhone and suggests Adobe focus on HTML.

www.cnet.com

 

[visualseed]

If you ask Apple, of course they argue they are, but the regulator might beg to differ. I'm sure Epic begs to differ, but ultimately it's the EU's opinion what will matter.

Ultimately a court will decide. That's where this will all end up. A court will then weigh the DMA as written, the EU's interpretation, Apple's interpretation, the entire body of superseding laws and treaties and then make a decision. It probably won't be ideal for either side, but it won't be the EU arbitrarily deciding Apple has no inherent rights in their own IP and must comply with every demand because "fairness."

Something people don't understand is that the DMA was very narrowly tailored to wedge in a gap between existing legislation and it can't easily be amended to step on that legislation. "Gatekeepers" are not monopolies. The DMA is not antitrust legislation and its ability to be enforced as such is very limited. When you start telling a company they can't charge for their IP or have to do business on less-than-ideal terms it has to be within some legal framework that supports that enforcement without violating other laws. We will see what happens next but, on the surface, it looks like telling Apple they can't charge a CTF would, at the very least, be a violation of TRIPS under WTO.