Apple Explains Why Stage Manager is Limited to M1 iPads in New Statement

[dk001]

Lot's of people on this forum has a very dysfunctional relationship with Apple.

They dislike almost everything Apple does and are still customers year after year. It's like they are in an abusive marriage and don't know how to file for a divorce and move out.

Or there are growing number of us (IMO) who are getting more and more tired of promises or possible promises (like how long we have waited for something realistic to use on a iPad Pro) and we get fed little to nada. Then Apple rolls out a function that any other system can run on minimal hardware and play the “you need M1 or better to run this”. It just reinforces the growing “lameness” that Apple presents.

Personally SM doesn’t mean much to me. I have a Pro 11 2020. I use it mostly for consumptive, doc review, and email.
It would be nice IF Apple would give us at least netbook level functionality.
But alas …

JMO YOMV

 

[darngooddesign]

Latest iPad mini users got shafted.

So did the budget iPad 9 owners.

 

[Crow_Servo]

I couldn't even imagine using Stage Manager on my Mini 6. It's a cool feature for the 12.9 IMO.

 

[KevinN206]

I'm not discrediting your knowledge of multitasking, you did that yourself.

I don't have to guess about Apple's reasons, because Apple already stated their reasons.

But here you are saying Apple is wrong about something you demonstrated that you know little about.

Stage Manager is just the split screen multitasking expanded to support windows resizing. And then they implemented a "virtual desktop" for groups. Split screen of two apps, both running at the same time, is already usable on existing iPads. Stage Manager should be able to accommodate two window apps on prior iPads because the "virtual desktop" feature just freezes everything that are not on the main stage. In my opinion, this is not a technical limitation. And no, I don't believe everything that Apple claims.

 

[Wildkraut]

It's the essence of being a great programmer.

I would never trust a programmer which isn't lazy in their programming.

The next most important ability is hubris or arrogance.

There is a difference between being lazy and automate tasks, and being lazy and waste hardware resources by coding inefficiently, which Apples Swift Kiddies clearly belongs to.

 

[KevinN206]

I have an iPad mini 6 and I don’t feel like I got shafted.

My iPad mini 6 runs all the apps I need it to and it will continue doing so after iPadOS 16 is released. Low RAM is an annoyance (lots of reloads and crashes) but I already knew that going in. Virtual Memory Swap is pretty much the only feature on 16 that I wish my mini would get. I couldn’t care less about Stage Manager.

Apple says that virtual memory swap requires at least 256 GB of storage and to enable Stage Manager. Yet, the M1 iPad Air 64 GB supports Stage Manager without having memory swap. The technical reasons don't line up. If they simply say you need 8GB of RAM, then that is more reasonable. If RAM is the main limitations, then just reduce the number of simultaneous apps from 6 to 3 or maybe even 2. The iPads can already do two-app split screen.

 

[rui no onna]

I couldn't even imagine using Stage Manager on my Mini 6. It's a cool feature for the 12.9 IMO.

I just tried it on 11” and even there, I found it too small to be practical. I reckon SM is more suited for 12.9” or even bigger external monitors.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Apple always releases the very best product it can at that moment in time.

We could do an entire separate thread on how inaccurate that is

 

[Joe Dohn]

We could do an entire separate thread on how inaccurate that is

It's true! Apple always says they do!

 

[The Game 161]

I just tried it on 11” and even there, I found it too small to be practical. I reckon SM is more suited for 12.9” or even bigger external monitors.

makes sense why a 14.1 iPad is also rumoured.

 

[4jasontv]

Correct. You purchased the wrong tablet if you want to run Stage Manager.

Again. Sigh. There is no m1 mini.

No the M1 iPad Pro is an excellent/outstanding tablet.

It’s to heavy and while a good computing device a terrible tablet.

I own one and could not be happier. And I'll soon be able to run Stage Manager because I made a smart decision purchasing the right tablet.

Dude. Pay attention. I have a every iPad. It’s not a good tablet.

If I instead purchased an iPad mini, I wouldn't be on a public forum whining about my poor decision, embarrassing myself.

The mini is the only good tablet apple makes. The pro is to heavy. You can’t hold it one handed above your head for a few hours, it’s basically a MacBook with a touch screen.

 

[4jasontv]

I have an iPad mini 6 and I don’t feel like I got shafted.

My iPad mini 6 runs all the apps I need it to and it will continue doing so after iPadOS 16 is released. Low RAM is an annoyance (lots of reloads and crashes) but I already knew that going in. Virtual Memory Swap is pretty much the only feature on 16 that I wish my mini would get. I couldn’t care less about Stage Manager.

The mini 6 is what happens when art majors in electrical engineering.

 

[AlexMac89]

Again. Sigh. There is no m1 mini.

It’s to heavy and while a good computing device a terrible tablet.

Dude. Pay attention. I have a every iPad. It’s not a good tablet.

The mini is the only good tablet apple makes. The pro is to heavy. You can’t hold it one handed above your head for a few hours, it’s basically a MacBook with a touch screen.

What were you attempting to prove with this? I read one fact (There is no M1 mini) followed by a lot of opinions based on one’s personal use of a device.

You keep repeating that “the mini is the only good tablet apple makes” as if that is a fact. It may be the best tablet apple makes FOR YOU, but it is not a universal truth.

But yes, keep telling others how because you like or don’t like something, they are no longer free to also have opinions. Sometimes dissenting. Doesn’t make them right. But it certainly doesn’t make you right either.

Edit: If you want apples “pro level” features, don’t buy the mini product expecting it to be pro. Like it or not, apple does not consider the mini equal to the pro, and it does not have the screen size, battery capacity, or thermals of the air.

 

[The Game 161]

What were you attempting to prove with this? I read one fact (There is no M1 mini) followed by a lot of opinions based on one’s personal use of a device.

You keep repeating that “the mini is the only good tablet apple makes” as if that is a fact. It may be the best tablet apple makes FOR YOU, but it is not a universal truth.

But yes, keep telling others how because you like or don’t like something, they are no longer free to also have opinions. Sometimes dissenting. Doesn’t make them right. But it certainly doesn’t make you right either.

yeah I mean for me the whole point of my tablet usage is content and general web browsing when I don't want to get my Mac out. with the Apple Pencil I can nav around the UI without needing to use my finger so im not stretching each time and this works great on my 12.9.

for content and space for multitasking with pro motion for me this is the best option. if I want a one handed device I would just use my iPhone or my fold 3 which is great for one handed usage on a decent display.

 

[aevan]

That's a terrible example. You're essentially saying that multitasking requires a massive CPU.

No, I'm saying the implementation they chose requires a faster SSD and an SSD controller to retain the responsiveness of an iOS/iPadOS platform which owes much of its instant responsiveness to the fact that everything runs from RAM. At least it did, until now.

But tell us: what is this magical limitation that prevents a PRO device from multitasking, especially considering that the A12Z was also used in the 2018 Mac Pro dev kit?

I can only guess, but it's not magic. First of all, the dev kit had an SSD faster than non-M1 iPads, second - it's possible they used a T1 chip alongside the A12Z for the SSD controller, third that dev kit had almost three times as much RAM as the non-M1 iPad Pros and four times as much ram as non-pro iPads.

Also, again, this is how Apple decided to do multi-window multitasking on an iPad. I'm not saying that multi-window multitasking would be impossible on other iPads, I'm saying that the way they did it and the user experience they decided they wanted - most likely wouldn't be able to run well.

Let me ask you - why do you think they limited it to M1 iPads? To get people to upgrade? That's not how it works. Vast majority of people won't upgrade because of this, and the benefits of raising the iPadOS platform outweigh any potential short-gain profit (which would be questionable anyway). So it's not that - then what?

 

[Lcohen34]

Even better. Apple tells us how long they plan to fully support each devices instead of just telling us how powerful the new chip is but then stop fully supporting it after only a couple of years.

 

[aevan]

The mini is the only good tablet apple makes. The pro is to heavy. You can’t hold it one handed above your head for a few hours, it’s basically a MacBook with a touch screen.

Good is a relative term and depends on the criteria.

For example, I need my iPad for illustration and I need as much space as possible. So, I could say: "the 12.9" is the only good tablet Apple makes." I don't care if you can or can't hold it one handed above my head - because I don't need that.

See? It's really relative. The truth is - Mini is an awesome iPad.... for certain use cases. It's the same for every iPad out there. Sadly - the Mini currently doesn't have the hardware capabilities to run Stage Manager. Probably the next one will.

 

[aevan]

Even better. Apple tells us how long they plan to fully support each devices instead of just telling us how powerful the new chip is but then stop fully supporting it after only a couple of years.

Some of the iPads iPadOS 16 is supported on are 7 years old at this point, so not sure where this "couple of years" is coming from.

 

[44267547]

makes sense why a 14.1 iPad is also rumoured.

This needs to happen.

I’m just ready to turn the iPad in to what Apple has been pushing for two years now, which is to turn it into a stationary desktop. Nobody intends on holding a 14 inch iPad in their hands for an extended amount of time, so it’s likely going to be advocated as a desktop with a keyboard. That’s exactly what I would want, plus it’s entirely ‘mobile’.

 

[MrGimper]

Not read the thread, but I’m assuming people are questioning why an A12Z can’t get this, but can be used as a mac Apple Silicon Dev kit in a Mini?

 

[inkswamp]

Macs running early versions of OS X (~10.3) had pretty impressive graphics processing power and Apple was able to get various effects on windows (shrinking to Dock, drop shadows, transparency, etc.) Also, you have similar features in Expose where all the windows can be shrunk on screen and switched. I find it extremely hard to believe that the last few year's worth of Intel Macs can't handle the rigors of shrinking windows to the left side of the screen. I love Apple but this excuse is pure garbage.

 

[Lcohen34]

Some of the iPads iPadOS 16 is supported on are 7 years old at this point, so not sure where this "couple of years" is coming from.

Did I say supported or did I say “fully” supported?

 

[Digitalguy]

No, I'm saying the implementation they chose requires a faster SSD and an SSD controller to retain the responsiveness of an iOS/iPadOS platform which owes much of its instant responsiveness to the fact that everything runs from RAM. At least it did, until now.




I can only guess, but it's not magic. First of all, the dev kit had an SSD faster than non-M1 iPads, second - it's possible they used a T1 chip alongside the A12Z for the SSD controller, third that dev kit had almost three times as much RAM as the non-M1 iPad Pros and four times as much ram as non-pro iPads.

Also, again, this is how Apple decided to do multi-window multitasking on an iPad. I'm not saying that multi-window multitasking would be impossible on other iPads, I'm saying that the way they did it and the user experience they decided they wanted - most likely wouldn't be able to run well.

Let me ask you - why do you think they limited it to M1 iPads? To get people to upgrade? That's not how it works. Vast majority of people won't upgrade because of this, and the benefits of raising the iPadOS platform outweigh any potential short-gain profit (which would be questionable anyway). So it's not that - then what?

From media reports the A12Z was in no way faster than the iPad version, SSD speed was in line (around 1.2GB/s). The rest is speculation.
Having said that, A12Z is nowhere near the M1 in many aspects, including the fact that it cannot support the 6k pro display (the DTK couldn't), which is one of the things Apple wanted Stage Manager to support.
I think we can agree that supporting a stripped down version of Stage Manager (with extended display) on the A12Z or even on the A12X (with or without swap) was possible, but Apple chose not to do it.
We may disagree on the reasons why they decided that it was not worth it. Whether they did it to "raise iPadOS" or because "they love their customers and they want them to only have the best experience" [=buy the M1 if you haven't already to get that experience] or as way to push sales of either M1 or the future M2, this is anyone's guess and speculation... (although some people sometimes express their opinions as facts)

 

[dk001]

I'm pretty sure this is something they decided before they programmed one line of code.

They don't have to prove that it won't work.

Usually decisions like these are very simple to do:

Manager: Can these feature be implanted on older iPads?
Developer: Maybe, but it would require a lot of engineering resources and we're pretty sure it's going to be problematic due to little memory on older iPads. We're not sure we can guarantee a fast experience.
Manager: Are there are any other reasons to not support older iPads?
Developer: Yes, M1 has faster IO to both storage for swapping which can delay slowdown if running low on memory and communicating with the external screen
Manager: How about testing?
Developer: We can save a lot of testing resources and time by not having to test old iPads at all
Manager: Sounds good. I'm going to recommend we drop old iPads for this feature

Upper level manager: You make good technical arguments, but how about sales?
Manager: Worst case, they will still use their old iPad and pay for apps and services where we get a cut, best case: people will buy a new expensive iPad.
Upper level manager: Approved!

Doubt it.
Been doing IT projects for close to 30 years.
That is not how they work.
Good for a chuckle though.
Thx

 

[wbeasley]

Haha, that is the lamest excuse.

Sounds more like lazy coding. No one wants to optomize anything any more. Just throw more hardware resources.

They landed on the moon with how much processing power?
Most phones for years have been able to do more than users need.

Old iPads still work and work well for most tasks.
Multi tasking has never been well implemented in the iOS environment. It works, sort of. But not enough more most people to use a lot of the time. How many tabs do people have open in Safari on phones? Might not all be live but they sit there for you to swap focus back to. Is it that big a jump to do the same with apps? Really?