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I guess we just disagree. For me, the Pro is a much better iPad, YMMV.



The numbers from Fortune were in the graph. It would be nice to know how they are counting.


Hard to say what the actual numbers. RedHat estimated Windows at 50% back in 2017. Statista put Windows at 71% in 2019.View attachment 2018451

Hard to say what the actual number is, and you can get different ones no doubt depending on what you count and ow you collect the data. It does appear though, that Windows has more than a one digit percentage of the market.



Apple simply claimed it wouldn't perfrom well enough and people here are taking that as some plot agaisnt them. Does Apple want to sell more iPads? Sure. That doesn't mean they deliberately hobble the older ones; I'd bet if it did work like they wanted tehy'd include it and point out how even older machines run the latest and greatest.



How doe sit not jibe? All Aple has said is older hardware will not give the user experience they feel is needed. They never said it couldn't run, so jailbreaking, Dev flags, etc. are irrelevent to why Apple made that decision.
it all depend on you. for us , we don't suggest windows server anymore to client. We do also asp.net application. Yes windows server existed on some application but for most web server will not used windows or critical server.
 
Apple’s statement does not explain much. I think the simple answer is Apple wants us to upgrade to a new M1 iPad. Anyone remember the support for Siri.
only you is who wants anything. i dont need ipad at first place, so m1 ipad is no near my wish list. and i remember siri, now i have it, but i still dont need it, nor use it.
but yeah its easier to blame other for our unfulfilled desires. wish you best.
 
There are loads of desktop class professional level iPad apps, including ports from or to the mac, with feature parity. So you don’t know what you’re talking about, clearly.

Loads? Reading through these forums alone we find people complaining about either deficiencies of very well established apps (MS Word and Excel are good examples here) or their absence (Final Cut Pro, for example).

It does not make iPad any less attractive to many people, including myself, yet I do not think that pro apps are evenly distributed between M1 Macs and iPads.
 
Loads? Reading through these forums alone we find people complaining about either deficiencies of very well established apps (MS Word and Excel are good examples here) or their absence (Final Cut Pro, for example).

It does not make iPad any less attractive to many people, including myself, yet I do not think that pro apps are evenly distributed between M1 Macs and iPads.
Of course they aren’t evenly distributed! The mac has a history spanning decades, an iPad able to handle desktop level apps a few years.

But yes - there are loads. For the fields the iPad excels at, you can find all sorts of pro level apps. More would be better of course. But you said there were none, which is demonstrably untrue.
 
I JUST BOUGHT AN IPAD MINI 6. AND YOU ARE TELLING ME IT WONT WORK?! THATS THE LATEST GENERATION — NO MORE IPADS FOR ME. DAMN YOU APPLE
You can return in 14 days i guess . Sorry i not returning this new ipad mini. its for my size easy on bed or travel put in pouch bag. Ipad air too big.
 
I suspect most people who use their iPads will not know or use or even miss this feature. Truth be told the iPad is seen mainly as a media consumption device and to a lesser extent a creative device granted with expensive accessories. This is another fine example that Apple is struggling to define what or where it is heading while not stepping on the Mac hardware division. 2020 iPad Pro owner here and I don’t feel I will be missing these extended features.
Agreed. I don't plug my (A12) iPad Pro into a monitor very often but I like the idea it could serve as a backup computer in a pinch – if I need to send my MacBook in for repairs for example.
 
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Agreed. I don't plug my (A12) iPad Pro into a monitor very often but I like the idea it could serve as a backup computer in a pinch – if I need to send my MacBook in for repairs for example.
stick to 3 year inventory cycle if work and 5 if personnel computer.
** my old times , 2 year windows laptop or 1 . ** type a lot.
 
And here is my non jailbroken 2018 iPP technically running 4 apps at once, so multitasking is certainly possible on the non M1 iPads.

Also this screenshot highlights another of my big iPad frustrations the fact that app developers can choose what system level stuff that can be done, that video player is showing Netflix but you cannot screenshot it however on a real computer you can. Another issue is that apps can completely block the 2nd screen even the garbage mirroring that we have now, whereas on a real computer you put the apps wherever you want. For instance I get BT sport online as part of my internet package and on my laptop I can use the web player and stick it on the larger 2nd screen to watch, but on the iPad thats a big hell no!
View attachment 2018149
For reference, this is roughly Microsoft Windows 1 level functionality. Windows 2 introduced overlapping Windows, which was considered a big step over the previous tiling UI. That said, most people on even Macs/PCs these days always just use one maximized window at a time anyway. Users taking advantage of screen real estate to engage in spatially laid out multitasking are a small minority.
 
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For reference, this is roughly Microsoft Windows 1 level functionality. Windows 2 introduced overlapping Windows, which was considered a big step over the previous tiling UI. That said, most people on even Macs/PCs these days always just use one maximized window at a time anyway. Users taking advantage of screen real estate to engage in spatially laid out multitasking are a small minority.
Yup . power user may have one screen but if open web browser , how many tab ? more then me lol.
 
Here's why I don't buy it. Stage Manager is supported on Intel Macs with MacOS Ventura. And the lowest supported Mac is a 12" MacBook from 2017. And that runs a POTATO of a fanless piece of crap Intel Core m3 CPU with horrible graphics and overall performance.

And yet that somehow can run Stage Manager, while also running an entire full desktop MacOS.

An A12Z can run circles around that machine.
The Mac has had virtual memory for years, since back when it was NeXTStep. (And MacOS Classic had its own Virtual Memory system, but it was a lot less sophisticated than swap memory.) The iPad didn’t. Swap memory likely requires an improved memory management hardware component. Intel, of course, has had memory management units in their CPUs for decades at this point (at least since 2000, possibly going back to the Pentium) and desktop Macs have had them since sometime in the 68k era, but the iPad hasn’t had swap memory as an option before this. So it’s not really an apples to apples comparison.
 
I am a retired software engineer who has worked in the field for nearly 30 years and I can make some pretty good educated guesses as to what Apple is saying.

Let's tackle the main reason I think Stage Manager is limited to M1's. What many people here say is correct in that the amount of real physical RAM and flash speed make a difference in terms of performance, but something just about no one has mentioned is that the A-series do not appear to have the controllers to handle virtual memory, an absolute requirement for Stage Manager to even begin to function.
...
Thanks, this is the most convincing point anyone has made here. But it can't be the whole story. A12 iPad Pros can and do run three apps at once (two half-screens and one slideover, someone posted a screenshot upthread). So what's preventing non-M1 iPad pros from rendering a 4k background screen plus 3 windows? Does a hard requirement to have virtual memory or else come simply to add the fourth window?
 
But yes - there are loads. For the fields the iPad excels at, you can find all sorts of pro level apps.

I am curious. What fields have reasonable parity?

Office is one glaring omission, and even the Mac doesn’t have Parity with the Windows suite.

More would be better of course.

I agree I hope the new M1 iPads drive more parity.

Users taking advantage of screen real estate to engage in spatially laid out multitasking are a small minority.

I agree. I find more windows are used when cutting and pasting. I have two monitors and unless I am working in two spreadsheets, searching web for answer to a question for the program I am using, or writing the scond screen is blank or tuned to CNN.
 
Office is one glaring omission, and even the Mac doesn’t have Parity with the Windows suite.

People have been using Office as an argument against the iPad as a pro device for years now, despite the fact that Microsoft has been using Office as a tool for entrenching Windows for even longer. Remember when Macs were limited to Entourage as their email client included in Office and how Entourage had questionable Exchange support despite being made by Microsoft itself?
 
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I am curious. What fields have reasonable parity?
I’m a photographer, and the tools of my trade consist of photo editing applications, design applications, drawing and art applications, mapping and planning + weather and sun/moon phase apps, whiteboarding and story boarding apps.

This field has an abundance of extremely capable apps. Some of which are not even available on traditional systems, some are and have feature parity, some massively surpass the mac version, some don’t. Some don’t yet, some never will. It’s of little consequence.. the ipad is life changing in my field.

I obviously still need a desktop mac, a server, specialist screens.. but the ipad has replaced my laptop, its replaced my Wacom tablet, and its added untold benefits to easily manage many aspects of my work, plus added whole new dimensions and all sorts of benefits that didn’t really exist before in the same way.
 
A very cheap statement, in short: no one believes it. Greed in excess!
But even so, the iPad is still not up to most "professional" needs, so it doesn't matter. some sketches, music, e-books, surf, that's all iPad is.
So having a stage doesn't change anything.
 
A very cheap statement, in short: no one believes it. Greed in excess!
But even so, the iPad is still not up to most "professional" needs, so it doesn't matter. some sketches, music, e-books, surf, that's all iPad is.
So having a stage doesn't change anything.
So so shortsighted, and sure that you’re right, you can’t see the multiple many many many many posts to the contrary of this statement. There is even one directly above your post. 🤣
 
I’m a photographer, and the tools of my trade consist of photo editing applications, design applications, drawing and art applications, mapping and planning + weather and sun/moon phase apps, whiteboarding and story boarding apps.

This field has an abundance of extremely capable apps. Some of which are not even available on traditional systems, some are and have feature parity, some massively surpass the mac version, some don’t. Some don’t yet, some never will. It’s of little consequence.. the ipad is life changing in my field.

I obviously still need a desktop mac, a server, specialist screens.. but the ipad has replaced my laptop, its replaced my Wacom tablet, and its added untold benefits to easily manage many aspects of my work, plus added whole new dimensions and all sorts of benefits that didn’t really exist before in the same way.
Photography and photo editing seems to be a world tailor made for the iPad, and it’s maybe the sole pro domain where the iPad truly has an abundance of professional caliber apps. The iPad is also probably pretty decent for writing, but photography and photo editing really seems to be where it shines. It’s usually my go to example of a pro field where the iPad Pro makes a lot of sense today.
 
Thanks, this is the most convincing point anyone has made here. But it can't be the whole story. A12 iPad Pros can and do run three apps at once (two half-screens and one slideover, someone posted a screenshot upthread). So what's preventing non-M1 iPad pros from rendering a 4k background screen plus 3 windows? Does a hard requirement to have virtual memory or else come simply to add the fourth window?
Stage Manager isn't just an app switcher that displays windows.

The older iPads have several apps displayed, but they do not necessarily have several apps running simultaneously with full multitasking; apps run until a new foreground app needs the RAM or resources and then that background app suspends. The exception with iOS15 (and iOS16 without Stage Manager) are the specific background processes Apple allows to always run like Music, Navigation, PIP Videos, etc. Stage manager allows up to 8 apps running simultaneously with up to 16GB RAM for each app.

Personally I think that Apple could have given iOS 15 external display support, with only one display at a time like running a laptop in clamshell, in addition to Stage Manager for the M1s.
 
I JUST BOUGHT AN IPAD MINI 6. AND YOU ARE TELLING ME IT WONT WORK?! THATS THE LATEST GENERATION — NO MORE IPADS FOR ME. DAMN YOU APPLE
To clarify, your Mini is getting iOS16, just not Stage Manager, but you would hate running StageManger on that tiny screen.

You have time to return your iPad Mini either as a response to Apple's actions or to get an iPad Air if you still do want an iPad. Both are valid choices. Even if you are past your 15 day return period, I bet Apple is getting enough heat to where you could convince them to accept your return.
 
Stage Manager isn't just an app switcher that displays windows.

The older iPads have several apps displayed, but they do not necessarily have several apps running simultaneously with full multitasking; apps run until a new foreground app needs the RAM or resources and then that background app suspends. The exception with iOS15 (and iOS16 without Stage Manager) are the specific background processes Apple allows to always run like Music, Navigation, PIP Videos, etc. Stage manager allows up to 8 apps running simultaneously with up to 16GB RAM for each app.

Personally I think that Apple could have given iOS 15 external display support, with only one display at a time like running a laptop in clamshell, in addition to Stage Manager for the M1s.
Well, the iPad does allow two apps side by side and one additional app in a pop-over, so there’s some limited multitasking. It could well be, though, that, outside of those background APIs you mentioned, iOS prior to iPadOS 16 simply can’t give CPU cycles to applications that aren’t currently on screen.
 
Well, the iPad does allow two apps side by side and one additional app in a pop-over, so there’s some limited multitasking. It could well be, though, that, outside of those background APIs you mentioned, iOS prior to iOS 16 simply can’t give CPU cycles to applications that aren’t currently on screen.
While that looks like multitasking, displaying apps is not multitasking, but it's less about CPU and more about RAM.

Think about it this way, if you are on an iPad with 6GB RAM, the OS can only give an app a maximum of ~4GBs RAM (60% of total RAM). So app 1 already allocated 4GB and then app 2 needs 4GB, the OS suspends app 1 and give app 2 the RAM it needs. Now app 1 is still being displayed in its frozen state but it isn't running. Background apps you don't see in your current window also suspend. That's why when you return to Safari, for example, you will sometimes have to wait for it to reload the page you were on. If you aren't using RAM intensive apps, they will appear to be always running.

Stage Manager's Multitasking has virtual swap memory so the apps can just keep running by using the SSD for RAM needs, and instead of suspending an app due to insufficient RAM it swaps the data that would be held in RAM with the drive.
 
People have been using Office as an argument against the iPad as a pro device for years now, despite the fact that Microsoft has been using Office as a tool for entrenching Windows for even longer. Remember when Macs were limited to Entourage as their email client included in Office and how Entourage had questionable Exchange support despite being made by Microsoft itself?

I am not arguing the iPad isn’t a pro device, quite the contrary. I use mine instead of my MBP at times.

Unfortunately, MS has never really embraced non-Windows devices for their applications. The web based versions often lack key features and in some cases are mere shells, such as PowerBI web vs desktop.

I’m a photographer, and the tools of my trade consist of photo editing applications, design applications, drawing and art applications, mapping and planning + weather and sun/moon phase apps, whiteboarding and story boarding apps.

Photography does seem to be an area the iPad can shine by offering a good way to display and proof while being very portable; even compared to a laptop.

I use mine to write and mind map my material. The iPad works great for that.

Unfortunately, in my consulting work it is more of an adjunct than a full portable replacement. One day maybe but as you point out, software availability, not the device specs, that determines if it is a suitable tool.
 
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