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Apple Facing Class Action Lawsuit for Offering Refurbished Replacement Devices Under AppleCare+
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Equivalent to new (not identical in all ways), and in terms of performance and reliability.
How can they prove that a refurbished model is not as reliable and fast as a new?
Like everyone else here says--idiots. Lawyers will probably get paid something in an agreement by Apple and the claimants will get new phones.
Everyone so quick to sue deep pocket companies for anything.
How can they prove that a refurbished model is not as reliable and fast as a new?
Like everyone else here says--idiots. Lawyers will probably get paid something in an agreement by Apple and the claimants will get new phones.
Everyone so quick to sue deep pocket companies for anything.
Could you explain how a SSD gets "wear and tear " just outside the warranty period and that to bad enough to kill the device?!
Hmm, some old but super true stuff here. "Once you do something wrong, others can assume all you have done is wrong no matter how splendid you finished the job before".
Apple can perfectly, you know, repackage refurbished units with new accessories and manuals etc and tell you "this is a brand new device" and we customers would have zero idea to confirm if the phone we have received is a refurbished one or brand new one. Doing so should eliminate such meaningless and useless lawsuits but of course raises the cost of replacing our defect products.
I still fail to understand why those guys stick to the word "new" so hard that they launch a class actions lawsuit. As long as devices are working fine after return, who would even care wasting time on fighting a battle which we have mere chance to win? Good luck for those guys.
Apple can perfectly, you know, repackage refurbished units with new accessories and manuals etc and tell you "this is a brand new device" and we customers would have zero idea to confirm if the phone we have received is a refurbished one or brand new one. Doing so should eliminate such meaningless and useless lawsuits but of course raises the cost of replacing our defect products.
I still fail to understand why those guys stick to the word "new" so hard that they launch a class actions lawsuit. As long as devices are working fine after return, who would even care wasting time on fighting a battle which we have mere chance to win? Good luck for those guys.
This is without any doubt at all, the most idiotic, precious and just plain wrong, class action suit ever. They are suing Apple for doing absolutely nothing wrong. If Apple had said they would replace devices with new items, then they'd have Apple cold, but Apple didn't say that.
How pray tell are they going to prove that a 'refurbished item' is not as reliable as their original new item, which becomes equivalent to refurbished the moment they take it out of it's wrapping.
We learn two things from this, 1. Lawyers are greedy scumbags, and 2. A fool and their money are soon parted. But we already knew this.
How pray tell are they going to prove that a 'refurbished item' is not as reliable as their original new item, which becomes equivalent to refurbished the moment they take it out of it's wrapping.
We learn two things from this, 1. Lawyers are greedy scumbags, and 2. A fool and their money are soon parted. But we already knew this.
Exactly what I was thinking. I'm more than pleased with the effort and service Apple puts forth so I leave with a working device within minutes or even one day if an express replacement is sent.
True.
But not in the sense of "used & recycled", but as in, on the shelf for 1 year and previously destined for the 5S.
Plenty of evidence on the web to support this.
Here's just one of the many google results:
http://www.chipworks.com/about-chipworks/overview/blog/apple-iphone-se-teardown
What is wrong with people who think that PCB boards and SSD's do not undergo wear?
OF COURSE THEY DO!
it's called HEAT! Some boards have defects that cause them to overheat. This is unfixable!
If you test it in air conditioning, you will never get the same problem ever. I doubt REFURBS are tested in the sun or at the beach.
OF COURSE THEY DO!
it's called HEAT! Some boards have defects that cause them to overheat. This is unfixable!
If you test it in air conditioning, you will never get the same problem ever. I doubt REFURBS are tested in the sun or at the beach.
If you get a refurb, you know it. Service parts and replacement phones from Apple are in brown boxes. Certified Refurbished retail product either says "Certified Refurbished" (or Reconditioned), and items in shrink-wrapped white boxes have no product picture on them.
Don't believe me? Google for "apple refurb packaging" for examples.
I am amazed about how many people are siding with Apple on this one. Would you be ok for Apple to sell you a refurbished phone when you go to buy a new one? It almost looks like you'd be, and you'd be happy about it. I am not happy about it. I paid good money for Applecare+, and a phone replacement is not free at all. One needs to pay almost $100 dollars for that. When putting everything together I would expect a new phone, not a refurbished one, no matter how good it is. Everyone knows a refurbished phone has less value than a new phone. I am ok with Apple selling refurbished phones at a discount somewhere, but not dumping them into us who are paying good money for Applecare+.
Actually, my son's phone is going to have to be replaced under Applecare+. I have forwarded this article to him and he will try to get a new phone if possible. We already got a refurbished one last year when there was another mishap that required a replacement.
Actually, my son's phone is going to have to be replaced under Applecare+. I have forwarded this article to him and he will try to get a new phone if possible. We already got a refurbished one last year when there was another mishap that required a replacement.
I think their point is that they paid $XXX.XX for a new device that functions properly and when it doesn't it means the value of the phone is less than what they paid for and as such should be compensated with another device that is retail-new and not refurbished. From what I understood, refurbished devices tend to be devices that were fixed after failing to pass quality assurance tests during initial manufacturing or parts from devices that were previously owned but with a new enclosure, battery, display, and buttons. I think logic boards and pcb might be the only thing that is reused. Also, Apple recycles most of the materials (glass, aluminum, silver, tin, gold, etc) from those devices and recycles it to produce new components. An example could be a water damaged device that has its materials turned to dust and recycled to make new components while the logic board and circuitry isn't just slapped onto a new device because it's beyond economic repair.
Another frivolous lawsuit which should be thrown out. I blame all Americans for this ongoing travesty insofar as WE THE PEOPLE define what government does and allows. It should not be impossible but it should be VERY VERY HARD to file a lawsuit in America. It's time for 90% of lawsuits, not just against Apple, but against everyone, to come to a screeching halt.
Why is this one frivolous? Anyone who knows anything about manufacturing knows that defects slip through QC. You can buy a BRAND NEW item, newly manufactured, that is bad. But with refurbished units, you not only are assured that unit has been tested by a human being, but it has been man-handled much more than a newly manufactured unit insofar as refurbishing it means replacing a lot of parts, and after that must come a lot of testing. So you are likely to get a perfect unit when buying refurbished, versus buying new where you may get a defect. And please don't give us the "longevity" cry. Even if a refurbished unit isn't newly manufactured, it's not 10 years old either. It will likely last just as long as a newly manufactured unit, especially when considering that refurbished units usually are fitted with brand new batteries.
I detest lawsuits. Bite your tongues and live with the problems of life! END MOST LAWSUITS NOW!
Why is this one frivolous? Anyone who knows anything about manufacturing knows that defects slip through QC. You can buy a BRAND NEW item, newly manufactured, that is bad. But with refurbished units, you not only are assured that unit has been tested by a human being, but it has been man-handled much more than a newly manufactured unit insofar as refurbishing it means replacing a lot of parts, and after that must come a lot of testing. So you are likely to get a perfect unit when buying refurbished, versus buying new where you may get a defect. And please don't give us the "longevity" cry. Even if a refurbished unit isn't newly manufactured, it's not 10 years old either. It will likely last just as long as a newly manufactured unit, especially when considering that refurbished units usually are fitted with brand new batteries.
I detest lawsuits. Bite your tongues and live with the problems of life! END MOST LAWSUITS NOW!
Sorry. It's not an issue up for "agreement". It's a "fact".
Refurbs get tests that new units do not. The fact that you have had faulty refurb units does not in anyway refute this fact.
Edit: As an aside; every Apple product that I have ever owned since I bought my first PowerBook Duo. has been a (flawless) refurb. The only 2 exceptions were my brand new 2001 iBook (which had loose screw bouncing around inside the case), and my current iPhone SE.
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And secondly, I think a factory refurbished phone is better than a brand new phone...factory refurbished means someone physically fixed it, they tested it, they saw it...it's good. Brand new phones are not all checked ... Even if you get a dud, you can still get another refurb?
The line in AppleCare "equivalent to new in performance and reliability" is pretty self explanatory.
QA faults can occur both in NEW and "equivalent to new" a.k.a. "refurbished" devices. The argument that one QA process is better than the other is based on unsubstantiated assumptions. Until someone can post a video of an Apple employee refurbishing a device and demonstrating that this is better compared with the line production at the "new" manufacturing facility, then comments to that affect are just opinion...
Fanboyism, lawyer-bashing and all the other clicheed knee-jerk response, need to tone down the rhetoric.
Apple is not the magical kingdom and consumers have always been at the weaker end of the economic mantra spectrum. Corporate protectionism really doesn't need more lobbyists.
FWIW, I don't think this particular lawsuit is about greed, many others are, but this is about raising standards. In fact, I think Apple's standard have slipped over the years.
OTOH, many consumers can be aholes and overly fickle about what warrants an exchange for new.
We've all seen people posting here for advice how to break a device "just enough" before warranty expiration to obtain a new device.
In my 25+ years of buying Apple devices (over 50), I've had 4 warranty replacements, 3 new and 1 refurb.
I frequently buy refurb'd products from Apple along with new ones. It surprises me how anyone can actually receive multiple bad units (new or refurb'd) within the same year that are actually faulty.
QA faults can occur both in NEW and "equivalent to new" a.k.a. "refurbished" devices. The argument that one QA process is better than the other is based on unsubstantiated assumptions. Until someone can post a video of an Apple employee refurbishing a device and demonstrating that this is better compared with the line production at the "new" manufacturing facility, then comments to that affect are just opinion...
Fanboyism, lawyer-bashing and all the other clicheed knee-jerk response, need to tone down the rhetoric.
Apple is not the magical kingdom and consumers have always been at the weaker end of the economic mantra spectrum. Corporate protectionism really doesn't need more lobbyists.
FWIW, I don't think this particular lawsuit is about greed, many others are, but this is about raising standards. In fact, I think Apple's standard have slipped over the years.
OTOH, many consumers can be aholes and overly fickle about what warrants an exchange for new.
We've all seen people posting here for advice how to break a device "just enough" before warranty expiration to obtain a new device.
In my 25+ years of buying Apple devices (over 50), I've had 4 warranty replacements, 3 new and 1 refurb.
I frequently buy refurb'd products from Apple along with new ones. It surprises me how anyone can actually receive multiple bad units (new or refurb'd) within the same year that are actually faulty.
The tone of this reply is a bit loud but true.
I know nothing about America law system but I also blame those people who insists "refurbished items are generally in worse quality than new items". For such a gigantic company like Apple, they can perfectly sell refurbished as new without you even notice it at all.
I don't even need to say my first iPhone 6s Plus was a defect BRAND NEW product because phone just heated up itself no matter which app I was using.
Good luck for those guys and add me as another one detesting this lawsuit.
I have no idea where people got the idea of refurbished units have brand new of everything expect of PCBs.
I checked out Apple website regarding to refurbished units, no where in the official documents say new components being put in.
Apple Certified Refurbished Products
Frequently Asked Questions:
(1) What are Apple Certified Refurbished Products?
Apple Certified Refurbished Products are pre-owned Apple products that undergo Apple's stringent refurbishment process prior to being offered for sale. While only some units are returned due to technical issues, all units undergo Apple's stringent quality refurbishment process.
Each Apple Certified Refurbished Product:
Refurbishment procedures follow the same basic technical guidelines as Apple's Finished Goods testing procedures.
(2) What should I expect when I purchase an Apple Certified Refurbished Product?
(3) Can I purchase the AppleCare Protection Plan for my Apple Certified Refurbished Product?
All Apple Certified Refurbished Products are covered by a one-year limited warranty. For extended coverage, you have the option of purchasing the AppleCare Protection Plan with your Apple Certified Refurbished Product. The AppleCare Protection Plan extends the complimentary coverage on your Apple Certified Refurbished Product to up to three years of world-class support for Mac, and up to two years of world-class support for iPad, iPod, iPhone, and Apple TV.
(4) A refurbished item that I wanted is no longer available. How can I ensure that I get an item when it's in stock?
Refurbished supply is usually very limited and we often run out of refurbished inventory. We recommend that you act quickly if you see an item that you like. A product will be reserved for you once you've completed checking out and we've received full authorized payment. Please note that some payment methods take longer than others and that availability of a refurbished product is not guaranteed until we receive your full payment.
* Specific configurations may come with a more current version of Mac OS than was available originally.
In no where Apple claims that brand new battery, case, screen being added.
[doublepost=1469063758][/doublepost]
It might go through. I remember Apple was ordered to give a brand new devices in separated lawsuit somewhere else.
Clearly, some judge disagree with Apple.
I checked out Apple website regarding to refurbished units, no where in the official documents say new components being put in.
Apple Certified Refurbished Products
Frequently Asked Questions:
(1) What are Apple Certified Refurbished Products?
Apple Certified Refurbished Products are pre-owned Apple products that undergo Apple's stringent refurbishment process prior to being offered for sale. While only some units are returned due to technical issues, all units undergo Apple's stringent quality refurbishment process.
Each Apple Certified Refurbished Product:
- is fully tested (including full burn-in testing).
- is refurbished with replacement parts for any defective modules identified in testing.
- is put through a thorough cleaning process and inspection.
- is repackaged (including appropriate manuals, cables, new boxes, etc.).
- includes either the Mac OS originally shipped with the unit or, in some cases, a more recent version*.
- is given a new refurbished part number and serial number.
- is placed into a Final QA inspection prior to being added to sellable refurbished stock.
Refurbishment procedures follow the same basic technical guidelines as Apple's Finished Goods testing procedures.
(2) What should I expect when I purchase an Apple Certified Refurbished Product?
- Substantial savings
- A fully functional unit with complete documentation
- The assurance that the unit meets Apple's premiere quality standards, and that its defective components have been replaced by genuine Apple components
(3) Can I purchase the AppleCare Protection Plan for my Apple Certified Refurbished Product?
All Apple Certified Refurbished Products are covered by a one-year limited warranty. For extended coverage, you have the option of purchasing the AppleCare Protection Plan with your Apple Certified Refurbished Product. The AppleCare Protection Plan extends the complimentary coverage on your Apple Certified Refurbished Product to up to three years of world-class support for Mac, and up to two years of world-class support for iPad, iPod, iPhone, and Apple TV.
(4) A refurbished item that I wanted is no longer available. How can I ensure that I get an item when it's in stock?
Refurbished supply is usually very limited and we often run out of refurbished inventory. We recommend that you act quickly if you see an item that you like. A product will be reserved for you once you've completed checking out and we've received full authorized payment. Please note that some payment methods take longer than others and that availability of a refurbished product is not guaranteed until we receive your full payment.
* Specific configurations may come with a more current version of Mac OS than was available originally.
In no where Apple claims that brand new battery, case, screen being added.
[doublepost=1469063758][/doublepost]
It might go through. I remember Apple was ordered to give a brand new devices in separated lawsuit somewhere else.
Clearly, some judge disagree with Apple.