Apple Facing Class Action Lawsuit for Offering Refurbished Replacement Devices Under AppleCare+

[iMi]

I'm going to sue

Only merit I can see to this is if they received replacement devices that failed very soon after the replacement. By most accounts this is a rare occurrence. So, "equivalent to new in performance and reliability" is accurate and defensible. Are these people claiming their replacement devices were noticeably worse than the original?

Good point and I totally agree. I doubt this will actually go do trial. Probably just a shake down.

 

[oldmacs]

I'm pretty sure most retailers have at least a two-week return period. I.e., you can return a bum iDevice back to Best Buy within the return period if you bought it there.

I'm in Australia and they don't. Apple should just properly replace devices that are near new, with new devices, because a refurb replacement for a new device is not fair. What happens after the 14 days anyway?

 

[brentsg]

Give me Apple refurbs any day. These people are morons.

 

[TechZeke]

In 9 years, I've had 5 iPhone replacements. All 5 were crappy, had marks on the side and one had another users apple ID popping up. Im not clumsy.

To be honest, I was quite shocked when I first learned Apple simply gave refurbs as replacements. I figured they would go to the back, and get a brand-new in-the-box phone.

This is why I just use separate insurance. If I want some refurbished BS, I could go on eBay.

Honestly though, this lawsuit will probably get dropped since its something really hard to prove. Apple's terms don't say you will get a brand-new in-the-box replacement.

 

[CarlJ]

What makes your characterisation any better?

Perhaps the meaning of the word characterization is not clear in this situation. I was replying to a post which said, "Apple replacements have always been (terrible)". "Have always" necessarily implies that all Apple replacements are terrible. I did not say "all Apple replacements are great". Rather, I offered a specific example of numerous Apple replacements that have been good. Thus "have always" in the original post does not hold.

 

[JayLenochiniMac]

I'm in Australia and they don't. Apple should just properly replace devices that are near new, with new devices, because a refurb replacement for a new device is not fair. What happens after the 14 days anyway?

Perhaps, but that's a different topic than the OP. Here in the US, anyone can return a product within the 14-day return period to most major retailers for a full refund and re-purchase another retail box. Other than the very limited, in-store repair that must take no longer than 1 hour (usually a new screen, camera, etc.), Apple offers white box replacement on the spot in lieu of sending your iPhone to the depot for the actual repair, and this is superior/preferable because 1) the customer won't have to be without their iPhone for a week or so and 2) they get back a fresher iPhone with a brand new screen, shell and battery instead of their repaired device that may be scratched up, etc.

 

[unplugme71]

Stupid lawsuits from stupid people who don't understand that Apple refurb devices actually undergo a heavier QA process than new ones.

If I had a penny every time a DOA laptop was shipped and the customer angrily accuses it of being 'a refurb'. Because only refurbs fail.

Most consumers don't have the slightest clue about how anything works. Grinds my gears something rotten.

I have purchased refurb Apple TV and Mac mini both work great. However, my replacement iPhone had the worst battery life. Literally was draining as I got to my car from the store. So I immediately went back. They gave me another iPhone. I hung around the mall another 15-20 minutes, went back again. This time the manager gave me a new phone. No problems.

For some reason Apple either sent a bad batch or refurb iPhones (4) were just horrible all together. No battery should drain 20-30% in 15 min while texting and using safari.

 

[JayLenochiniMac]

I have purchased refurb Apple TV and Mac mini both work great. However, my replacement iPhone had the worst battery life. Literally was draining as I got to my car from the store. So I immediately went back. They gave me another iPhone. I hung around the mall another 15-20 minutes, went back again. This time the manager gave me a new phone. No problems.

For some reason Apple either sent a bad batch or refurb iPhones (4) were just horrible all together. No battery should drain 20-30% in 15 min while texting and using safari.

Apple's refurbs get a brand new battery so it's not like they've tested a previous battery and decided to re-use it if it's good enough. You're equally likely to get a dud battery whether it's brand new or refurb (i.e., from a bad batch).

 

[sigsegv]

In 9 years, I've had 5 iPhone replacements. All 5 were crappy, had marks on the side and one had another users apple ID popping up. Im not clumsy.

The reason I said "couldn't tell you...." is bc I couldn't. So I went into my apple records and found all the paperwork. 5. in 9 years. Five. None since 2013.

That's unfortunate. What kind of failures were they?

Understand my curiosity: I've had no failures/replacements in the same time period. Wife and kids too - we all have iPhones (well, kids only last couple of years).

 

[wizard]

I thought all the parts that receive wear and tear were new parts?

- New case
- New screen
- New battery
- New buttons
- New connectors

Basically the only thing that could be "used" is the PCB inside? Something that doesn't suffer wear and tear at all?

People are either idiots, or greedy. I'm gonna vote for the latter mostly.

Actually I believe idiots is the right term. In some sense the refurbished are better than new.

 

[SoN1NjA]

The United States of Entitlement.

AppleCare+ is pretty expensive for what they offer

 

[AdonisSMU]

Why would people expect a brand new device when they screwed up? Plus the device they brought in was old.
[doublepost=1469071979][/doublepost]

AppleCare+ is pretty expensive for what they offer

So what. It's better than buying a whole new device and be out of luck completely.

I am very happy with my refurb iPhone that I got for free when I brought in my iPhone that was having troubles.

 

[wizard]

If you think that PCBs (and the components on them) do not suffer wear and tear, then you're pretty ignorant about PCBs.

Look in the mirror!! Once you get past infant mortality you will have a compute board that will last very long time.

You should probably check your facts before calling people idiots and greedy.

Where did you get the idea that PCB wear? They certainly don't suffer wear and tear like mechanical components.

 

[GuysmileyTX]

I have had AppleCare on all my Apple products. I have to voice personal dissatisfaction with replacement iPhones and iPads I've received from Apple.

iPhone 6 Plus replaces due to bent phone. After 11monhs in service it was perfectly functional, but the screen started to delaminate. The replacement unit scratched within 1 week. It was the same case my old 6 Plus had, and I handled it the same as my original phone. Apple replaced it under screen protection, and "waived" the replacement fee. The 2nd sealed replacement had problems with the LTE Modem. Voice calls worked wonderfully, along with WiFi data. After fighting for over a half year with AT&T the phone was replaced with a sealed refurbished unit. The replacement had issues with WiFi. Even in The Apple Store it took 20 minutes to register with iCloude when on WiFi, but less then 30 seconds on LTE.

iPad Air replaced because of accidental screen breakage. I paid the screen replacement fee, and received a refurbished unit. The LTE speeds are not nearly as fast as my original iPad Air, iPhone 6 Plus, or iPhone 6s Plus.

iPhone 5s replaced because of memory errors. The replacement was fresh from a sealed refurbished box, and the screen had a screen protector installed on it. This replacement had problems with the digitizer, and was subsequently replaced by another replacement 5s that continued to function normally.

The recertification process appears to be allowing subpar replacement back into circulation. Apple could never tell me the history of the device I received as a replacement to see if it was the same issue as the Original problem.

I thought all the parts that receive wear and tear were new parts?

- New case
- New screen
- New battery
- New buttons
- New connectors

Basically the only thing that could be "used" is the PCB inside? Something that doesn't suffer wear and tear at all?

People are either idiots, or greedy. I'm gonna vote for the latter mostly.

 

[macsba]

Give me a break. I purchased a refurbished iPad Air 2 from the online Apple Store a year ago. Since having the unit, I had no problems with it. It's been my best iPad yet. Tell the girl to chill.

 

[doctor-don]

Sure are a lot of people posting that they have received a lot of refurbs.

And maybe customers should read the warranty with their products.

 

[palmfox]

A refurbished device tends to be in the iPhone and iPad cases a water damaged device that has gone under some form of repair, and these devices are not as strong and some component are fragile and in any case the flash storage is degraded as they is so many read or write cycles for flash storage. If you ever drop a refurbished iPad in most cases it will brake due to no protection surrounding on most of the vital chips in it as it was scraped off during the PCB repair were a new iPad would survive 100% a drop on it's back. Apple refurbished replacements are poor quality, but what you don't know can't hurt you is Apple's view and that is just not on. Apple should repair the item or replace with new, it is Apple's fualt they made it so hard to repair their own stuff, Apple you are IDOTS

And you know this how? I can assume that you worked at an Apple store, and not only replaced the broken units with phones with water damaged internal parts that you could readily see, or you work in the refurbishing location and know for a fact that water damaged parts were used. I don't think so.
Do you just make stuff up, or do you have an actual verifiable source for your accusations?

I have worked at an Apple store. The replacement units come in an unmarked plain box. Some boxes contain brand new units, and some remanufactured units. The technician has no way of telling which unit is which. All the units look exactly alike. New phones are used when there is a shortage of remanufactured units, such as when a new product is launched and they don't have enough return units to remanufacture.

Both my wife and I have replaced phones under Applecare and neither one of us could tell if it was new or not. They both still work 3 years later. The wording of Applecare is specific.. it does NOT guarantee a new unit.. it guarantees the unit to function AS IF new. I would love to see the evidence they are going to present. I bet Apple puts up two phones and says.. OK.. you tell me which is which.. They will both look and function as if they are new.

 

[Lynxpoint]

I have never had to have any 'apple' product repaired or replaced, but I am now on my third set of beats in six months. An employee at the apple store told me these headphones in particular tend to fail. What I am glad of is each time they replaced the headphones with new ones along with a new warranty period.

 

[rdlink]

I'm on your side in this issue but I cannot agree with that.
Every refurb iphone unit I have ever had (iPhone 6 and iPhone 5 at least) ALWAYS had something wrong with them..more often than not dead pixels.

on the contrary none of my retail bought iphones ever had any real defects...

I've had plenty of replacement iPhones, also. Which I can only assume were refurbs. Never had any issues with them. They were always just as perfect as the new one I originally pulled out of the box. Apple must not like you.

 

[JayLenochiniMac]

Both my wife and I have replaced phones under Applecare and neither one of us could tell if it was new or not. They both still work 3 years later. The wording of Applecare is specific.. it does NOT guarantee a new unit.. it guarantees the unit to function AS IF new. I would love to see the evidence they are going to present. I bet Apple puts up two phones and says.. OK.. you tell me which is which.. They will both look and function as if they are new.

Lawyers who file frivolous class action lawsuits like this don't care about their merits. They simply want a payday, and many companies settle because it's cheaper that way (while at the same time they get to deny the accusation).

 

[tentales]

Yes, you really were.

You have too much time on your hands going after people that don't agree with you. i don't.
Your post is unread.

 

[beaker353]

Look in the mirror!! Once you get past infant mortality you will have a compute board that will last very long time.


Where did you get the idea that PCB wear? They certainly don't suffer wear and tear like mechanical components.

WRONG! The solid state flash memory on ALL iDEVICES suffer substantial wear and tear. Every time it writes or rewrites a storage cell damage is done. Basic electronic solid state physics. Would be the equivalent of the usefulness of a used tire. There will inherently be less tread, thus the useful life and value are reduced.

-beaker353

 

[NovemberWhiskey]

Lawyers who file frivolous class action lawsuits like this don't care about their merits. They simply want a payday, and many companies settle because it's cheaper that way (while at the same time they get to deny the accusation).

Agreed. But sometimes, without these lawsuits, companies simply refuse to acknowledge any problems with their practices. And in this case, I think there is a problem with how they are deliberately trying to pass off refurbished as new.

I am not saying that I think every warranty replacement deserves a brand new phone. But I do think that apple must make clear what the customer is purchasing when they purchase AppleCare, or what they are getting under the standard warranty. And those are refurbished phones. Period.

They can be very good sometimes. To most consumers, they will look and operate brand new. But they are refurbs nonetheless and should be clearly labeled and disclosed as so.

The problem is apple trains geniuses and employees to pass them off as new. Or when they do admit they are refurbished, they lie about how the refurbs are better than new ones because of all extra testing.

In my personal experience, refurbs are demonstrably worse in quality control, and often come out of the box with issues (cosmetic chips and scuffs; hardware issue causing screen to jump around; hardware issue where you can't pick up or answer calls; loose battery out of box; etc.) there is no way my luck is just that bad.

And I think it is wrong how if you are in the 15 day return window, they push you to take a refurb instead of a new box without telling you it is a refurb. Most consumers wouldn't know the difference.

That said, Apple is excellent in a lot of areas too like being generous with replacements when there is a problem. Even if it is very minor or when they do courtesy exchanges out of good will. And in those cases I think the refurbs are more than fair.

Again, it's more a problem with disclosure and deceiving the public rather than the refurb exchanges themselves.

 

[H2SO4]

Stupid lawsuits from stupid people who don't understand that Apple refurb devices actually undergo a heavier QA process than new ones.

If I had a penny every time a DOA laptop was shipped and the customer angrily accuses it of being 'a refurb'. Because only refurbs fail.

Most consumers don't have the slightest clue about how anything works. Grinds my gears something rotten.

All that tells me is that the QA for the new devices isn’t up to scratch.

Another note.
Lets suppose you had two queues in an Apple Store, (or the link for the refurbished goods was just as prominent for that of the new devices). How many people would opt for the refurb as opposed to the new?

Queue 1 - new iPhones $750. With standard 1 year warranty as expected with a new device.
Queue 2 - refurb iPhones, $750. With standard 1 year warranty as per a new device and with the original serial number.
That’s the true test of whether people or Apple believe in their products. I’m not saying sell the refurbs as new, I’m saying price them as new, (to reflect the increased QA costs - that’s fair surely?).
[doublepost=1469078956][/doublepost]

WRONG! The solid state flash memory on ALL iDEVICES suffer substantial wear and tear. Every time it writes or rewrites a storage cell damage is done. Basic electronic solid state physics. Would be the equivalent of the usefulness of a used tire. There will inherently be less tread, thus the useful life and value are reduced.

-beaker353

You are both right.
The solid state devices DO suffer wear, but not wear as akin to mechanical devices.

 

[Robert.Walter]

I have never had to have any 'apple' product repaired or replaced, but I am now on my third set of beats in six months. An employee at the apple store told me these headphones in particular tend to fail. What I am glad of is each time they replaced the headphones with new ones along with a new warranty period.

You reminded me of something...

I said in my longer comment that everything not called out as an issue was ok. I forgot about Apple's premium 80$ earbuds... And the lightening cables...

The strain reliever where the plastic earpiece tapers down to the cables, and the similar cylindrical strain reliever at the plug end are made of a really crap polymer that is sensitive to body oil. The same could be said for the flexible portions of the iPhone 4s bumper surround and the lightening cables.

These polymers eventually reacted to my body oils (I use no lotions, creams or perfumes) and swelled, split, became gummy and/or embrittled and crumbled away.

After a irritating and disappointing argument with an apple representative about this issue (note: I didn't often use the earbuds because I use a Logitech rechargeable Bluetooth headset, and only used the ear buds a few times when the battery got empty on the headset), I considered myself lucky to get a replacement set.

I had such bad experiences (mostly having to argue to convince the person of how much worse the premium set was compared to the free set) with these polymer issues and their short longevity that I was really afraid to buy an Apple Watch for fear of seal integrity longevity around the Digital Crown, on/off button, speaker/mic membranes, as well as between the metal housing and the display or sensor array (so far no issues after 1 year though.)

Note:
I must note that I feel rather guilty for airing these issues because in more cases than not, Apple has been really good.

I'm not a disgruntled customer, But I think it ismportant to discuss these things and not pretend there can't be an issue. My speaking out here is due to the bad experiences with a few Apple reps that were not as customer focused as the vast majority of their colleagues (and were some combination of condescending, seemingly making up a narrative to try and persuade me to accept a situation and go away, or seemingly disinterested in getting feedback on issues causing significant dissatisfaction and loss of confidence.)