Apple Facing Potential Suspension of Italian Sales Amid Warranty Concerns

[Nuvi]

The Apple Care Plan is not only an extended warranty but also an insurance because it covers things a "warranty" by definition cannot cover such as accidental damage.

This is not made clear. Simple as that.

Thats AppleCare+ that is not even available in Europe. In Europe its just the regular AppleCare without any insurance aspects.

 

[swagi]

Apple has no obligation at all to offer any manufacturer's warranty on any products. However, stores, including Apple stores, have are responsible for the products they sell (claiming this means "two years warranty" is oversimplifying it). On all products they sell.

Just to let you know - yes they do if they sell it in the way of an Apple Store. They have to offer a two year warranty on a new product as a reseller. It is written! All over the EU.

And actually the whole article is about not informing publicly that you don't need Apple Care.

Just to let you know, if your SDD or HDD or display or whatever dies in your Apple product after 1.5 years and you haven't bought Apple Care - you are still perfectly in the warranty period and can trial the seller of said Apple product for repairing your stuff.

EU wide consumer protection. Well - actually the Apple Store subsidy is obliged to (or the Apple Online Store subsidy), as they are the seller. So let's say a major electronics outlet sells you the rMBP. If it dies, the seller has to offer you warranty and Apple can give them the big bad stinking finger.

An Apple Store on the other way...so in short: Don't mix manufacturer's obligation (they have none) with resellers obligation (they have two years if selling a new product and six months if selling a used product).

 

[scottsjack]

OK, what have we learned here.

1. Apple tried to pull a fast one by selling an effective one year of protection for the price of two additional years of protection.

2. A notable number of, probably American, MacRumors posters are as dumb as dirt.

 

[theelysium]

I worked for AppleCare; people who think it's confusing are incompetent. The back packaging very clear. It shows you a freaking diagram, hello!

This is an issue of the public being too stupid to read or comprehend. Same issue we have here in the US.

look at the photo I added... how is that not clear... seriously! It's the broke ass Italian government trying to make a buck off of Apple.

 

[theelysium]

ok, what have we learned here.

1. Apple tried to pull a fast one by selling an effective one year of protection for the price of two additional years of protection.

2. A notable number of, probably american, macrumors posters are as dumb as dirt.

look in the mirror.

 

[Nuvi]

Boy, you're angry, relax. What's the matter, can't get a job in your socialist country?

Watching O'Reilly much?

 

[Oletros]

I worked for AppleCare; people who think it's confusing are incompetent. The back packaging very clear. It shows you a freaking diagram, hello!

This is an issue of the public being too stupid to read or comprehend. Same issue we have here in the US.

look at the photo I added... how is that not clear... seriously! It's the broke ass Italian government trying to make a buck off of Apple.

And this is the right guarantee in EU?

 

[Nuvi]

I worked for AppleCare; people who think it's confusing are incompetent. The back packaging very clear. It shows you a freaking diagram, hello!

This is an issue of the public being too stupid to read or comprehend. Same issue we have here in the US.

look at the photo I added... how is that not clear... seriously! It's the broke ass Italian government trying to make a buck off of Apple.

It seems you're the one who's confused here. Let's take it from the top. A) In EU law consumer has minimum of two year guarantee. B) Apple is only providing one year guarantee. C) This constitutes as breach of EU consumer protection laws hence the actions taken by consumer protection authorities in EU.

http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/shopping/shopping-abroad/guarantees/index_en.htm

 

[mingoglia]

I for one think Apple should come with a standard 3 year warranty. I believe if you have a good product, and are proud of it, you should stand behind it. With that being said, I'm against government intervention and telling companies how they can/can't do business so I take what Apple gives.

I am though against deceptive practices and "fine print" makes me a bit crazy so I'm not personally dismissing this one just yet. I don't believe in purposely "tricking" customers. Actually, I don't really care what the outcome is. It doesn't affect me and I don't have time to follow it. LOL

 

[boozezela]

I worked for AppleCare; people who think it's confusing are incompetent. The back packaging very clear. It shows you a freaking diagram, hello!

This is an issue of the public being too stupid to read or comprehend. Same issue we have here in the US.

look at the photo I added... how is that not clear... seriously! It's the broke ass Italian government trying to make a buck off of Apple.

"Apple the manufacturer" can very well offer 12 months of basic coverage and 2 years of extended paid for coverage namely AppleCare.

Too bad by law "Apple the merchant" must offer 24 months coverage without the need to purchase the extended paid for coverage "Apple the manufacturer" is pushing.

So, yes, people are actually too stupid to understand. They are the ones that relies on freaking diagrams.

 

[Nuvi]

An Apple Store on the other way...so in short: Don't mix manufacturer's obligation (they have none) with resellers obligation (they have two years if selling a new product and six months if selling a used product).

Actually in some EU countries consumer has right to approach the seller or the manufacturer. However, most of the times its more convenient for the consumer to deal with the seller then to take it directly to manufacturer. Regarding the used items the minimum guarantee period is one year.

The seller is always liable, and in some EU countries you also have the right to request a remedy from the producer.

Second-hand goods
In the case of second-hand goods, the buyer and seller can agree to a guarantee period of less than two years, but no shorter than one year. This should be made clear to you at the time of purchase.

 

[scottsjack]

look in the mirror.

Can't, all I have is two monitors in front of me. They're not Apple so I can't see myself in them.

 

[theelysium]

It seems you're the one who's confused here. Let's take it from the top. A) In EU law consumer has minimum of two year guarantee. B) Apple is only providing one year guarantee. C) This constitutes as breach of EU consumer protection laws hence the actions taken by consumer protection authorities in EU.

http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/shopping/shopping-abroad/guarantees/index_en.htm

Completely coherente, yo!

EU = morons.

----------

Can't, all I have is two monitors in front of me. They're not Apple so I can't see myself in them.

OOO, wow, what a burn.. ouch.. I better get to the burn unit; that burn was so bad... damn...

Not my design.

 

[Galatian]

Yes, America screwed the worlds economy. Apparently the rest of the world thought it was great or they wouldn't have tied themselves into it.
Boy, you're angry, relax. What's the matter, can't get a job in your socialist country?

No not the rest of the world...Bankers did...and for the sake of it I don't understand why WE (as in taxpayers) bail them out (again) so they can do it all over again...And this is an American and European problem. The only people really laughing right now are Russia and China...More money for them...

And no: I have a pretty secure job...I am just really angry about that nonsense that get spilled all over MacRumors...I mean people read this and actually believe it is true...Seriously the first two pages are just Italy bashing and how stupid it is to have longer warranty...what weird mind questions longer warranties?!?

 

[JAT]

I understand you want your products to last a reasonable time, everyone does. But spewing crazy isn't going to help...

I'm tired of Apple ignoring compulsory warranties, they pretend it doesn't apply to them or something! It should be just as easy to get a faulty product fixed within two years than it is within a year, and they simply say that you're out of warranty after a year, which isn't true.

All I want is products that last more than a year. You can't be expected to buy a new Apple computer every year, that's just stupid.

Apple often fixes their products out of warranty. I had an iPod fixed more than once well beyond the one year. Just read another post this morning about a guy getting his battery replaced in a 17" MBP after warranty. (and that's a consumable, warranty shouldn't be as long, anyway) This is frequently how Apple treats its customers, and part of why so many are zealous about the company.

By ignoring warranty, they are basically saying "We can't promise that your £2000 computer will work in a year, and that you won't have to buy a new one yourself." I can buy a car for that price that has 7 years of warranty! And Apple products tend to fail a lot more than they should in my experience.

Only if you don't drive it. The miles are the real warranty. Mine said 10 years, didn't last 5. (the warranty, the car is still great)

Pretty much anything you buy has at least 2 or 3 years of warranty: cameras, hard drives, etc… And it makes sense, you expect these things to last for a few years, since you paid loads for them and it's not something you need to buy every year.

Cameras and HDDs do not usually have more than 1 year warranty. Not the consumer-level stuff. Not in the USA.

 

[theelysium]

"Apple the manufacturer" can very well offer 12 months of basic coverage and 2 years of extended paid for coverage namely AppleCare.

Too bad by law "Apple the merchant" must offer 24 months coverage without the need to purchase the extended paid for coverage "Apple the manufacturer" is pushing.

So, yes, people are actually too stupid to understand. They are the ones that relies on freaking diagrams.

I think a better argument to make would be about the idiotic Apple Sales reps (not all of them just the idiotic ones) that tell people they NEED Care in order to have their products covered. I've heard of that by customers that called in when I worked at Care. That BS needs to stop, but the marketing is absolutely clear.

 

[manu chao]

Wikipedia - even if it is the 2010 numbers, it isn't that much different right now. I know it has to do with productivity, but that is why the GDP is a good measure: if you have a higher GDP, you produce more. Ergo, the numbers being about equal in Italy and the USA means that they are about the same amount in debt by means of being able to pay it back - except that the sheer amount of the US debt can have a way more desasterous impact in case the debt will grow to the extend that everyone sees it won't be repaid. Also, there is no power on earth which could bail out the USA. Italy though is way less system critical and can be bailed out undr certain circumstances, at least partially. There is a lot of wealth amongst the people though which could be invested. Part of the Italian problem is that small business owners do not reinvest into the comany and don't thrive the grow but rather stagnate. Corruption and organized crime on the other hand are problems Italy is facing in higher per capita rates than other first world countries... The USA has the highest expenses for military per capita or GDP or in % of budget. This does not really create revenue though. As I stated, the problems are different.

You could have made yourself clearer by stating right away that you looked at (a) external debt and (b) the combination of public and private debt. But looking at the external debt without comparing it to the external assets is pretty useless.

And the difference between public and private assets (or debts) does matter. Private assets can usually easily flee a country when there is a crisis. Thus, the fact that Italy has a fairly low private debt level (and correspondingly high private assets to debt ratio), helps it very little if a lot of these private assets just leave Italy in a crisis. That is why the first number to look at is public debt, then how much of that is towards non-residents and then how much private debt there is that is held by non-residents. Italy scores badly on the first one, but better on the other two. But with all the capital flight from southern Europe, it is loosing out on the other two as well.

 

[JohnDoe98]

Yada, yada, yada. We are talking consumer electronics! One year is the norm.
Any electronic device that does not fail from a defect by 12m will last several more years without being abused.

1 year in your country. Also, if most defects happen before 12m, then adding another 12m or 24m shouldn't make a difference right? So you wouldn't actually be getting anything for nothing, you would be getting nothing for nothing. Sounds right.

 

[AppleFan1984]

Can't, all I have is two monitors in front of me. They're not Apple so I can't see myself in them.

Turn on any light in your room. Apple only sells glossy displays these days.

 

[manu chao]

It seems you're the one who's confused here. Let's take it from the top. A) In EU law consumer has minimum of two year guarantee. B) Apple is only providing one year guarantee. C) This constitutes as breach of EU consumer protection laws hence the actions taken by consumer protection authorities in EU.

Why do people always feel the need to simplify things, and then completely miss the point. Apple is not providing a one year guarantee only, they do provide a two-year (limited) warranty. They just, conveniently for them, largely keep mum about the fact that they do provide this two-year warranty when trying to sell AppleCare.

 

[Glideslope]

I could have sworn you are from Alabama, Arizona, Texas or any other horrible thing like that.

Just before I laugh at you, is, according to your truth, Socialist=Bad?

Stereotyping eh? Should I tell you the color of my skin?

I rest my case. Thanks for the help.

 

[Nuvi]

Why do people always feel the need to simplify things, and then completely miss the point. Apple is not providing a one year guarantee only, they do provide a two-year (limited) warranty. They just, conveniently for them, largely keep mum about the fact that they do provide this two-year warranty when trying to sell AppleCare.

Unfortunately Apple is not providing two year guarantee in all EU countries. Yes, you get it if you call AppleCare and complain but guarantee certificate only states one year.

 

[Galatian]

Thats AppleCare+ that is not even available in Europe. In Europe its just the regular AppleCare without any insurance aspects.

I had to check this, as I was really surprised that many people here claim that Apple Care is an insurance. At least here in Europe Apple is pretty clear on what is covered and what is not...Accidental damage is not covered so it is not an insurance and thus simply an extension for one year of the already promised 2 years of warranty by European guidelines. Oh and you get phone support... I for once can completely understand that the Italian customer watch is enraged about this. Not only is it not very clear what is covered and what is not for whatever amount of time, Apple also seems to be milking European customers by simply offering an high price 1 year extension vice what you would get as an American customer.

 

[Mad-B-One]

You hit the nail right on the head...

Silly German. It's called "You nailed it!"

Don't mix that up with "You nailed her!" which is the same as "You scewed her!" which is not the same as "You scewed it!" which is the opposite of "You nailed it!"

At least it wasnt a "grab into the toilet."

 

[RonWayne]

Reuter got it wrong

Actually, Reuters claims are wrong.

The AGCM bullettin (PDF here - in italian) states that Apple can be subject to a new "pecuniary penalty" as prescribed by the "Art. 27 - Comma 12 del Codice del Consumo" ("Comma" in Italian law = "Section").

So, no reference from the watchdog of the "suspension of entrepreneurial activity" that indeed is a possible sanction for reiterating the same infringement according to Article 27 - Section 12, though.

Apple can be fined up to 450.000, not 300.000€ (3 international Apple companies involved times 150.000€ maximum fine each).

Ninja Edit: ODF -> PDF